Transcript

Jeffrey Deiss:
Maggie, how are you doing?

Maggie Degnan:
I’m good. Thank you.

Deiss:
I just want to quickly thank you for agreeing to come on for this episode of the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself and what you do at the Herald?

Degnan:
Yeah, so I am a print news editor. And that basically means that I assign out pitches to news associate editors, and then they assign the pitches to reporters. And by the end of the week, they have to put it in the website, and I edit it, and I help them get our sources and everything. That’s pretty much what it is.

Deiss:
Awesome. So we were looking through a bunch of the Herald’s upcoming features and yours immediately stuck out. And the reason is, I think fast fashion is a really important topic for our generation and our demographic, and as college students, and as consumers in general, I think we need to pay better attention to it. But what inspired you to write about this topic?

Degnan:
Well, actually, the future editor Janani reached out to me, she’s going to be the editor-in-chief next year. And she said that there was a piece that she was interested in, perhaps being a feature about fast fashion, and I had written about divestment last year, so she thought maybe this would be somewhere in the arena that I would be interested in. So I decided to take it on.

Deiss:
Yeah, I can definitely, I think something you did write about in your piece is that I think a lot of students face this kind of anxiety, trying to balance the need for convenience with like these broader moral and societal goals. Do you ever kind of have that internal battle where you’re like, it’s way easier for me to order this on my phone, but it would be a more sustainable or maybe responsible option to go to a place and actually purchase clothes?

Degnan:
Yeah, so I actually feel that way. Or I felt that way. Pretty often, I try not to really order clothes online anymore, and not really buy things from places that I know for a fact are fast fashion. But I mean, at some point, you do need clothes, you need some pants, some shoes, and you have to buy them. So it is definitely an internal conflict. When you’re like, “Oh, I feel terrible, because I don’t know where this was made or how it affected the environment,” but sometimes you do have to make purchases.

Deiss:
And I guess to get more specific, what were some of the worst things about the fast fashion industry that you discovered through your research for this feature – or just for things you’ve written about before?

Degnan:
Yeah, so I actually did some research into cotton laundering. And I found that in the Xinjiang region, where the Chinese government is having the Uighur Muslims go into forced labor camps, and it is doing all kinds of human rights abuses. That was probably the most disturbing because I mean, there are so many huge named brands that are getting cotton for their clothes from those weaker forced labor camps. And that includes Levi’s, Eileen Fisher, and Lululemon, it was just really crazy to see all these huge brands are profiting off of genocide.

Deiss:
I mean, those are yeah, those are obviously big, big names in the fashion industry, so when I read that, I just found that kind of ridiculous. There’s no way that there’s people not higher up that don’t know what they’re doing. But besides that, which companies do you think are some of the worst offenders when it comes to, say, environmentally unsustainable clothes production.

Degnan:
So there’s definitely different levels, I would say. For example, something like Levi’s — they have jeans that are definitely going to last longer and they do have some sustainable initiatives. But then you have brands like H&M, Zara, Forever 21, and those brands really push the limits with fast fashion on how fast they make their clothes and the materials they use. So they use a lot of materials that are just really bad for the environment, but also they don’t even really try to be sustainable. And when they do, the clothes aren’t actually sustainable. So I think that’s probably one of the more egregious things – when brands say, “Oh, here’s a sustainable line,” but it’s not actually sustainable. It’s called greenwashing.

Deiss:
On the other hand, do you think fast fashion’s convenience – in light of the kind of terrible effects it can have – do you think it can be a positive thing in the sense that if someone is lower income or has limited means of transportation, things like that, do you think the convenience and the cheapness of it has any positive side to it?

Degnan:
Yeah, I think that, because it is convenient, and if you don’t necessarily have the resources to buy clothes that are more sustainable, or you just don’t have time to go to a thrift store. Some people try to do that. But a lot of students actually don’t have time for that. So I don’t know if I would say that it’s a positive thing, but I totally see the convenience side of it. We also have to keep in mind that it’s not entirely terrible. There are some really dark pockets, but there are definitely, I mean, for example, in Bangladesh, once there was this thing called the MFA. Basically, the US didn’t want outsourced labor to threaten domestic labor. And once that ended, it positively impacted Bangladesh’s economy for the readymade garment workers. I mean, those workers saw wage increases, there were more available jobs to them. So I think that, if you want to technically say that’s positive, you could, but I don’t know if I would go as far to say that’s positive.

Deiss:
I can definitely see how that can go both ways. But I think something you just mentioned – you talked about thrifting. Can you speak a little more on that? Like, what are some ways you recommend students at UW engage in slow fashion, quote, unquote.

Degnan:
So there is a club here called Re-Wear It Wisco, and I actually spoke with the founder. Her name is Yvette Sanchez, and she basically told me that twice a month, about, Re-Wear It Wisconsin tries to host these events where students can come and drop off clothes, they can trade clothes, they can just come and browse other people’s clothes. So basically, if you have something and you’re like, “I’m never gonna wear this again, but I bought it from H&M and I can’t just throw it away. Because why would I do that?” then you can bring it to these clothing swaps, and maybe someone will want it and you can get something out of it as well. And then there are a lot of options for thrifting I think that people might not realize are like, kind of thrifting I know there’s, there’s Dig N Save, there’s Goodwill, but there’s also like, really cool, I don’t even know how you would describe it – is niche the right word? There’s this place called Rethreads on State Street, and they’re really cool. I also spoke with the owner, and she just told me about how she’s always been really conscious about her environmental footprint. So I think that small places like that are really good to check out. But also those other more accessible, less expensive places, like Dig N Save and Goodwill are options too.

Deiss:
Turning away from the more topical questions I had about this article, you just mentioned you talked to the owner of this company – Rethreads? Were there any other interviews you conducted for this feature that really stuck out to you? Could you speak on them at all?

Degnan:
Yeah, for sure. So I spoke with Colonel Robinson, and she is the director at JVN, which is a group here that uses hip-hop to or like hip-hop culture, sort of, to teach and just really get to know the community around the Madison area. And she was telling me about how (and it actually happened this week) there was a fashion show. It was like a hip-hop sustainability fashion show. So it had to have an element of hip-hop in it. And the clothes had to be either reused or recycled, and some of the materials weren’t even allowed to be closed. Someone was making something entirely out of bottle caps. So that was really interesting. And I actually spoke with one of the designers, her name is Zynga Costa, and she was telling me about how she really wants to have her own line in the future. She’s an aspiring designer, and she talked a lot about how consumers have more power than they think they do, and that she is actually hopeful for the future of fashion. I found that really refreshing because I think it’s necessary to have voices like that. Because you know, fashion isn’t going to stop – it just needs to get better.

Deiss:
Definitely. And honestly, I think that wraps it up for this feature itself. I think we touched on every facet of it. But one thing I wanted to ask you, are there any topics you want to explore next? Writing for the Herald or even pitching for the Herald? 

Degnan:
That is a really good question. I’m sure there are like a million topics that I would be interested in. But right now none come to mind, unfortunately. Maybe something in this realm. I could do, I don’t know, a follow-up.

Deiss:
Good. I think that wraps it up, and once again, thank you for taking the time to come on the podcast.

Degnan:
Thanks for having me!