One would barely know where to begin in response to the unsubstantiated assertions in this editorial. Let’s try this: Name just one of the “countless states” that have shown a “dramatic progress in lowering crime” by gun licensing. Have you ever attended a gun show, Dan? I didn’t think so. You think that online sales of guns do not require a background check? You think that wholesellers sell directly to individuals without going through a licensed firearms dealer who conducts a background check? You believe “individual power” is something bad? We are all to be dependent and subservient, right? News for you, people around Wisconsin ARE open carrying guns and your assertion that people are “threatened and alarmed” by it is simply untrue. I don’t know where you get your “facts” but I suspect it is from somewhere such as the Brady Campaign, which has no qualms about publishing outright lies in order to push their agenda.

Mr Rose, Obviously you have no idea what the fore fathers of this country intended when they wrote the Constitution. Nor do you have any idea what price our veterans have paid throughout our history defending those very rights given to us by our fore fathers. To be blunt, maybe you should leave America and go enjoy the rest of your life in a communist country. I hear North Korea is looking for a few people to join their ranks of dictatorship. Your ridiculous tirade for gun control is a perfect example of what is wrong with this country today. You sir, do not believe in individual rights only the rights of government and a corrupt government at that. It is the very people such as yourself that have ruined the reputation of this country with your praise of dictatorship yet you cry and whine when a criminal robs or commits a crime against you or some one you are close too. You are a sophomore in college and obviously a sophomore in life. You are naive in your ideas and are the type of person who would write an article such as this only in an effort to gain attention to yourself. For people like yourself negative attention is good attention. In my eyes you fall into the same catagory as the Crips and the Bloods. In my military career I was an Army Ranger and I did my part many times over to defend your rights including your 2nd Amendment right. Today I am a Sergeant in the Department of Corrections and I deal with those Crips and Bloods and other gang militias you have written about on a daily basis. No one knows better than I what type of people they are and yet I am still an extreme advocate for our 2nd Amendment Rights. Tell me sir, just what have you done to honor this country? Have you spent time in service? I doubt it, you are to busy hiding behind your books. Have you done anything to try and help one of these kids from the neighborhood gangs to gain a better life and try to make a difference? I doubt that too. Instead you criticize people who commit no crimes by open carrying a fire arm and exercising their God given rights, simply because it is something you choose not do. Did you vote this past year at election time Mr. Rose? Because if you didn’t then maybe we should take away that right too. Did you bother to read this article before sending it to print? Because if you did you would have seen just how big of an idiot you are. Let me be perfectly clear, this is OUR country love it or leave it. People like you and Leon Young are people we can live with out. You are just beginning your college career what exactly makes you think you have all of the answers. I graduated from college with a 4.0 grade point average, top of my class, with double honors. I believe I have the right to say what I am saying to you right now. You people, who are trying to take away our 2nd Amendment right will be the cause of the next civil and revolutionary war right here in American and you can print that statement and save it because when it happens and the people of this country rise up and take back that which is rightfully theirs you can place that statement in the Smithsonian. I am sure you have never even fired a gun in your life but you come here as an expert with all of the answers. I think you need to go some where else to look for attention and someday when you grow up, come back and see me and we will talk. Until then keep your communist comments to yourself after all if you are so against Americans exercising their rights then you shouldn’t be able to exercise the right of free speech either!

James A. Gleason 15 Lehner St. Chilton, WI. 53014

Some of the guys in my fraternity, Sig Ep, purchased guns at some of the gun shows. For example, Glock 9mm, Kimber 1911 in .45 ACP, and AR-15 in .223. That made a lot of guys nervous, as they keep them loaded and accessible. They feel they need them for protection as many of them are on cocaine and meth, and they are afraid of getting “jacked.” Also, we are supposably “guests” in the TKE house but a lot of guys are in trouble with the UW administration for holding secret rush parties and serving beer to minors, and high school girls. Also, for hazing by throwing urine and excrement on the Sig Ep members on Langdon Street in ‘07.

Mr. Rose, I give you a failing grade for obviously not conducting any research on the subject of firearms, crime, and more importantly…our God-given right to self-defense against a tyrannical government and other criminal elements.

You are entirely wrong on so many occasions I could spend the entire evening correcting you. Instead, how about I offer a few corrections, and you, student, go about conducting the necessary research and correcting the rest of you mistakes.

May I suggest reading peer-reviewed work by Dr. John Lott, Senior Research Scientist and Economist at the University of Maryland. Or how about Dr. Gary Kleck, Professor of Criminology and Sociologist at Florida State University.

A few examples:

You stated that Wisconsin has “some of the most disgracefully lax gun laws in the country.” You are, Mr. Rose, aware that Wisconsin is one of only two states in the entire United States that prohibits all citizens from carrying concealed weapons for self-defense, are you not? Check into states such as Vermont and Alaska that do not require any background checks, training, or even a license, for concealed carry or open carry. Their crimes rates should be off the charts according to your flawed and subjective logic, right?

You argue that “more thorough background checks” would in some way prevent criminals from stealing firearms (legally purchased and owned), trading them for drugs, and using them in crimes? Please, oh please, cite one objective example of how background checks have directly reduced crimes. Hint, hint…criminals do not legally purchase firearms from gun dealers. Criminals purchase firearms on the street corners of Milwaukee at any time of the day or night with money or drugs - no background checks at all!

And you speak of “lack of restrictions on wholesale sellers and gun shows” as if you have attended shows and purchased firearms in an illegal manner? Have you ever even attended a gun show? All transactions at gun shows must follow the same federal and state rules as would any sale outside of a gun show. And since you seem to associate more guns with more rape, murder, and mayhem…how about violent crime rates at gun shows? They should be through the roof, thousands of guns, tens-of-thousands of rounds of ammunition, persons for all walks of life - hunters, target shooters, veterans, and, ohhh, gasp! Militia members who work normal jobs, live in normal houses, and have normal families…but are willing to die defending this beautiful country we live in.

Mr. Rose, you are a disgrace to the University of Wisconsin at Madison. Always remember Mr. Rose, whatever you write, or publish, will reflect upon you for an eternity. It can and will be read by your children, your grandchildren, and those God-fearing, hard working, proud Americans you label as “Bloods and Crips.”

Now let’s see if you are looking to infringe upon my First Amendment right to free speech and censor my message.

Chet Szymecki

Congratulations Mr. Rose.

You managed to squeeze in 134% more gun cliches in a single article than any other writer totally ignorant of the current gun laws.

Let’s raise the fee for clearances, that way poor people can’t afford gun ownership.

“Disgracefully lax gun laws”? I’m willing to bet a $100 donation to your favorite charity that you have never purchased a firearm.

“Militias are known … bloods and crips”. Nice, you managed to combine both ignorance of history and Jefferson’s definition of the unorganized militia with a racial slur in a single sentence.

Do us all a favor and change your major to Elementary Education - start with yourself.

Protect your Second Amendment Rights

Wisconsin has virtually no modern gun laws.  It has the Constitution (Article I Section 25- November 1998), which allows open carry, the Hamdan Supreme 941, and some DNR regulations.  It is a total mess, and Supreme Court Justice David Prosser as much as said this in the Hamdan decision.

The Legislature overwhelmingly passed a great bipartisan bill twice, Gov. Doyle vetoed it twice, and it was overridden in the Senate twice, and missed being overridden in the Assembly by ONE vote and TWO votes respectively.  Gov. Doyle called in favors to get the two votes; one of those was one of the authors of the bill!  

In Concealed Carry (CCW) states like Florida, permit holders are people that want to follow the law.   They take safety classes and know the laws.  Hundreds of thousands of Florida citizens safely carry concealed weapons for self protection.     Forty-eight States in the U.S. allow their citizens to defend themselves by carrying a concealed weapon.  The two exceptions are Wisconsin and Illinois.  In Florida the violent crime rate per capita is actually much lower than in Wisconsin BECAUSE the perpetrators do not know if their intended victim is armed.  Even hotbeds of organized criminal activity like Miami are safer than Milwaukee

Laws missing in Wisconsin that have been enacted by most all of the other States include the Castle Doctrine and Justifiable Use of Force (see FL Stat. 776 and 790.)  These two laws form the basis of a citizen’s right to defend his children, family, and home from a criminal attack.  CCW States require thorough background checks, waiting periods of often 3 months or longer, training, testing, and the like.  By the way, Florida law states that the FEE for background checks must be what the background check costs not some arbitrary number that is really another tax in disguise. Moreover, all monies from the reasonable license fee must be used for further training and education.

An earlier writer to this column incorrectly stated that retailers and wholesalers at gun shows are free to sell guns to anyone without background checks. In fact, all gun sales here in Wisconsin by either retailer, wholesaler, or internet site are bound by the same Federal Firearm Licensee (FFL) rules that apply in every other State in the Country. Waiting periods and background checks are mantatory. Criminals are not buying guns through legal channels.  Criminals have always had guns, will always have guns, buy them illegally through the black market, or steal them.  They do not go online or to a gun show in Madison.  Gun show sellers do FFL background checks, have waiting periods, and have FFL licenses.  They sell to law abiding citizens who want to hunt, target shoot, or protect themselves.  

Treasure your Second Amendment rights.  In every country that has outlawed or restricted private ownership of guns, chaos or increased crime followed. Dictators for that last hundred years started by first registering guns and then confiscating them.  That is how the Germans were able to roll through Europe mostly without resistance from the populace.  In Great Britain and Australia licensing lead to confiscation of guns from the law abiding, the criminals still have guns, and crime is up.

Support the Second Amendment and the right of law abiding citizens to protect themselves with licensed Concealed Carry in the State of Wisconsin. 

Mr. Rose:

You need to check and cite your laws.

“Since November 30, 1998, the Brady law has required all federally licensed firearms dealers to initiate background checks for all firearm purchases. Prior to any sale, the purchase must be approved through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which is operated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). DOJ continues to be the NICS contact point for handgun checks, while the FBI handles NICS checks for long gun sales…. Dealers who fail to comply may be fined up to $5,000 and risk losing their license….

“In addition to the instant checks required by federal law prior to any firearms sales, Wisconsin continues to enforce its 48-hour waiting period for handgun purchases. During the waiting period, a ‘firearms restrictions record search’ is conducted on the prospective buyer by DOJ. If the search indicates a felony charge without a recorded disposition, the waiting period may be extended up to three additional working days [Section 175.35, Wisconsin Statutes]. The attorney general is authorized to inform local law enforcement agencies when a background check indicates that a person tried to obtain a handgun unlawfully so local authorities may prosecute the would-be purchaser.”

http://www.legis.state.wi.us/LRB/pubs/wb/00wb11.pdf

Neither of these requirements is magically removed at a gun show, or otherwise. Nor are gun shows a significant source of guns used in crimes.

As to antiques, those are excepted under Federal Law if they are more than 100 years old, which limits those firearms to bolt action long guns and revolvers for the most part.

As a future journalist or a scientist, it would behoove you to be accurate in your research. You were not this time.

Danny, I love how you spouted “Milwaukee is one of the top ten most violent cities in the United States, with 5,289 cases of violent crime in 2007” and you follow up with this “Yet, the obvious question of “why?” must be raised. Why would it ever be necessary for the average person to carry a gun with them in public?” You answered your own question. I would throw out this question for you, why does Washington D.C. have the highest gun crime rate in the country, and you can not legally own a gun there? If we actually enforced the laws on the books about people illegally owning guns, or using them for crimes we could reduce these types of violent crimes. Take away guns from law abiding citizens and you will increase these types of crimes. The tell all question: Who makes a better target, someone that you know is unarmed or someone that may or may not be armed? Think about it!

Dan,

Being interested in purchasing a gun in the state of Wisconsin where I live and study, I decided to look into what kind of laws and restrictions there were in Wisconsin. One Google search, and I was able to ascertain that Wisconsin (along with my home state of Illinois) is of the 2 states that does not allow citizen to carry a concealed gun, permit or otherwise.

Next, I decided to look into what kind of waiting period there was to purchase a handgun in Wisconsin (~2 days) and what kind of procedure I must go through to purchase a gun at a gun show (the exact same as if buying in a retail store).

Finally, I decided to see if there was any additional information I should know specifically about owning a handgun in Wisconsin, so I Google-search “owning a handgun in Wisconsin.” Imagine my surprise to see an article from a fellow student at the UW-Madison for the Badger Herald, a paper I read at least once a week while eating lunch at Union South (which is now a big hole in the ground!)

As I was reading your article, my head tilted like a confused poodle. Lax Gun laws in Wisconsin? Gun shows having no restrictions? Didn’t I just read otherwise? Openly carrying a gun in public is OK? I just read from an online pdf in my last search that explicitly states that those carrying a gun openly in public risk being arrested for disorderly conduct - which to me is basically the state government stating that they will arrest you for disorderly conduct if you are caught carrying a gun in a holster in plain sight -http://www.legis.state.wi.us/LRB/pubs/wb/00wb11.pdf.

I have nothing in terms of experience compared to some of those who posted comments above me. Army Ranger I am not, educated in the 2nd amendment I am not, veteran of any armed force I am not, nor am I an advocate for either side of the firearm debate. No, I am just a fellow student as you, just trying to learn what my rights are in terms of firearm ownership.

If I didn’t research for 15 minutes before reading your article, I may have been compelled to agree with your bullshit. However, those 15 minutes were well served, and would have served you as well should you have spared them to educate yourself before posting unsubstantiated lies. Isn’t that why you’re in college - to educate yourself?

What I am most upset about is that the Badger Herald has printed this without checking the facts. If the people at the Herald have any sense, they will take steps to ensure that you no longer get to print this kind of deceitfulness in a paper representing a highly reputable educational institution.

~Josh

Personally, I don’t think open carry is a good idea - it does freak people out. Imagine if a person… any person came to Memorial Union strapping a .357 revolver on their hip in plain site. That would be disturbing the peace.

I also don’t have a problem with a waiting period for any firearm. 2 days seems reasonable to me - in the sense that it is enough time to check databases for felonies, mental illness, restraining orders and other such stuff.

Beyond that, I don’t have a problem with people legally purchasing a firearm.

I DO have a problem with being so restrictive in what you can do with them that owning them is meaningless. Imagine a situation where someone, who has gained a firearm illegally to rob you, breaks into your house. What’s the point of having the right to own a gun if you don’t have the right to pull the trigger? Without that right, there is no deterrence because the robber clearly doesn’t care about the law to begin with yet the law abiding person does… otherwise they would have gotten their gun the same way the criminal did.

Nice day - pull the trigger and you are in trouble with the law. Don’t pull the trigger and you are in trouble with the criminal.

If there is no ‘not in trouble’ option… a way to be legal in the defense of your home, your desire to hunt or practice shooting sports, what’s the point? Just give up and let criminals do as they will.

I’m more of the mind that from a legal standpoint, that your right to throw a punch ends at the tip of my nose AND you have immediately given me the right to punch the tip of your nose without consequence.

Don’t want to give up your right to live so you can threaten mine? Don’t threaten mine in the first place.

Without that, the criminal will continue to try and get away with it because they have a high chance of success with a very low risk. Add the possibilty of being shot on the spot when you break and enter and the incentive falls a GREAT deal.

This coming from someone that doesn’t like guns… go figure.

Its sad that America is such a pro gun culture in my mind, but that’s not the debate. The fact is America IS a pro gun culture (not just legally, but CULTURALLY) so the question is how to deal with it.

I don’t know what the answer is, but clearly, its not in making it easier for the criminal and harder for the potential victim…. no matter how nice it sounds from a political or courtroom pulpit.

it’s no wonder wisconsin is always fighting a uphill battle for gun rights,oh,danny boy here figures like all the rest of the liberals who decide criminals need a safe victim to rob or kill.every othere state in the union except for wisconsin and illinois are for the protection of it’s citizens.but what do we have here,total political waste.i mean polititions who smell of such!one in madison who is head of the state,and the otheres who fallow his every command.lap dogs and loberals.want to die,come to the dark side,live in wisconsin,and then die.

mr rose i can accept your point of veiw. i own many guns and they all have been through an fbi or ncic background check some of these guns were purchased at a local gun show and because my background check did not come back right away i had to drive 3 hours away to get my gun, so dont say you know what you are talking about. If i wanted a gun easy a gun show is not the place to go. These people are upholding the law. and as far as the gang crap goes stop watching gangland and remember the more they kill of eachother the less likely they will get to you if they werent killing each other then you would need a gun too.The world is always going to fight little boys are hard wired to play with guns to think about war killing and fighting. Remember the bible. “man will destroy himself” well just accept it because you cant alter what has been written.I would believe a lot more in the bible than someone one like tammy baldwin. These are the influences that make everyone a pussy these days. So grow some balls and accept the world for what it is not what the liberals tell you.

disarmed people wear their colors, armed people fly them, the difference between aushwitz and israel, the 6 million jews were burned precisely because of this foolishness, u think they ever thought they would be rounded up and burned in mass, people in this country have lost their minds, if this country is disarmed further the same will happen here.

You apparently have not understood the constitutional rights garneted to all citizens, carrying a gun actually prevents crime. Your just like the rest of the stupid liberals in Wisconsin, who believe in protecting the guilty not the innocent.  All citizens should be guaranteed safety and the right to protect him or herself and live without fear.  If you honestly feel that strong about it, then I would suggest looking at the statistics in the states where you can conceal carry, you will see a decrease in crime.  Besides that it may be threatening to some people, but I  guarantee you one thing those people will not complain when it saves their life.


Unfortunately we live in a state that is behind the times, and with a motto that should be changed from forward to backward because it still denies basic rights.  And it is people like you that are to be blamed and one day those people will be voted out of office.  You say that most people in Wisconsin do not believe we should carry guns, then why is it a subject?  I could spend all day explaining why hippies like you are outdated, because you do not realize there is a need to carry a gun.  You have probably never fired or handled a gun, so it’s easy for you to say that there not needed.  If guns were still not needed why would police officers still carry them, think about that.  I invite you to go to a gun show or a target range or even hunting, before you speak again on this manner.