Yawn…Scantron exams?!? Hmmm, the only place I had those was in my Humanities classes. New buildings on campus?!? Take a look at what those were replacing. For example, the Engineering Centers Bldg finally replaced “temporary” buildings erected after the war. Microbial Sciences? The old building had been hit by lightning a couple times, not to mention a few floods (burst pipes, not Mother Nature). Many of those that have just had new buildings built had to do with poor conditions for a long time, as is Humanities. We can’t help that you built a poor building back in the 60s. The only difference, is the others found donors to pony-up the cash for the buildings. Face it, the UW wants to be profitable, and apparently/unfortunately the money isn’t coming in thru Humanities. Find donors like the rest of campus has been successful at doing. Why penalize the sciences by taking money they earned for the UW for being successful at what they do? Maybe it’s time to face the music, the Humanities are a dying breed.

Mr. Johnson seems to display an irrational and unfair hatred of science and math.

“regurgitating facts on multiple-choice Scantrons in a mindless Dark Age of their own.”

Science and math are beautiful and complex in there own right. Science and math disciplines are not cold, detached fields. They are incredibly human in nature.

If you want to argue from a economic perspective, the fact is we no longer live in 16th Century Italy. We live in a capitalist society that conflates salary level with perceived worth to society. Science and math majors get paid more because society is more interested in seeing diseases being cured, money being made and new inventions being produced than it is with art.

I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s how it is.

Fuck off, humanitard - your major is useless.

The only majors that teach critical thinking are the sciences (mostly the natural sciences and some of the social sciences) and philosophy. From my perspective as a student of the natural sciences, your precious humanities are ridden with postmodernist scumbags.

We NEED to keep the most emphasis on science. Our economy is lagging behind that of China and India; we fall behind most of Europe for skilled science and math students. Science is the backbone of our nation.

The arts shouldn’t be funded. If people want to learn about that, that shit should be taught at places like Juilliard. Go there if you want to be an artfag; we members of the scientific community will do useful things here.

The humanities should be LESS funded, not more funded. Science is by its nature a more expensive enterprise and we need that money to discover things that will save your life. In the meantime, I suggest you stop frequenting your physician until you get some appreciation for what we do.

That was just stupid.

You must have never taken an engineering class. It is almost all critical thinking; having the mindset to just “make it work”. Sure, we require basic knowledge of techniques and concepts, but to be a good engineer you have to be able to analyze a problem and use your brain to solve it. Some things just cannot be regurgitated, otherwise we would have no need for scientists and engineers. Computers could do all of our creative work for us while we all finger painted and read Shakespeare.

“Sure, they can dazzle with Darwin’s theory and calculate quantum physics, but in the area of critical thinking, they seem to be lacking.”

Would that be the kind of “Critical thinking” that leads some students to go deep into debt to get a degree that doesn’t lead to employment enabling them to repay that debt? Isn’t that sub-prime “Critical thinking”?

The University of Wisconsin, is a Research university. It is expected that there is an emphasis both financially and academically on the sciences. If a student wants an amazing liberal arts education then he/she should chose a liberal arts college with the best professors in the midwest. Belittling the science majors at a research university doesn’t seem to be much of a solution to the problem.

Nothing about Humanities, unless you consider comic book art.

from top 10 forecasts from Outlook 2009

Careers, and the college majors for preparing for them, are becoming more specialized. An increase in unusual college majors may foretell the growth of unique new career specialties. Instead of simply majoring in business, more students are beginning to explore niche majors such as sustainable business, strategic intelligence, and entrepreneurship. Other unusual majors that are capturing students’ imaginations: neuroscience and nanotechnology, computer and digital forensics, and comic book art. Scoff not: The market for comic books and graphic novels in the United States has grown 12% since 2006. -World Trends & Forecasts, Sep-Oct 2008, p. 8

http://www.wfs.org/Sept-Oct08/Nov-Dec%20FUTURIST/topTen.htm

But just because the economy may undervalue liberal arts degrees does not mean the students seeking science degrees or the university does not care about humanities.

The campus is not divided into two camps, we are one university and would not be complete without both engineering and humanities. Yes Barack Obama has promised to increase funding for the arts, but he has also said he is going to “make Math and Science Education a National Priority.” Yes the University did and is building some very nice facilities for the science degrees, but look at the campus master plan, they haven’t forgotten about you.

Avoid causing needless divisions within the university when the issue is university funding as a whole. Last semester my chemistry professor was offered a 25% raise to teach somewhere else. Instead of fighting over the merits of particular areas of study, let’s work together to fight for greater educational funding.

I understand, that it’s important to be a well rounded student. Yes, we should be literate and be able to scrawl out a decent essay from time to time. We’re going to Madison, we all should be more than capable of that. But to say that math and science majors lack in “critical thinking” is definitely off par. It is mainly that term that I’m having problems with. I agree that the arts are definitely beneficial to a person—it improves their quality of life. Still, I can see why we have such an emphasis on the math and sciences. We, as a country, are lagging behind the others in those terms. China has more honors students than we have students. And if you haven’t noticed, most of the Math TA’s aren’t exactly native English speakers. I guess what I’m trying to say is that yeah, the arts are are important, but don’t look down on the math and sciences like that. We need them.

So this frosh has formed this opinion with all of what, a little more than two months of college experience under his belt? Really?!? How much actual “critcal thinking” did you put into this article. Talk to us in 4 years after you find out how much critical thinking is actually required in the math and science programs.

Humanities are a great hobby or avocation, but not a career. DaVinci was an inventor and Michelangelo was an engineer; even Jesus was a carpenter.

Science majors, embrace the humanities portion of your schooling, because its what separates you from the unwashed masses and can be a source of inspiration.

There are some scientists on this campus with an irritating habit of writing the rest of us off as lazy and useless, and the funding of our programs often speaks for itself. But there is no need on anybody’s part to fight slander with slander. Students across both camps (science-tards and humanitards) work very hard and make valid contributions to society. The two irreconcilable genders of academia are going to have to kiss and make up if they plan to get anything done in the world.

“the calculus of motion”… It’s cute watching you critique that which you are obviously ignorant of. I’ll let you go back to studying “english” (whatever the hell that means) and I’ll go back to “reiterating back to my professors” useless facts like what keeps planes from falling from the sky and killing hundreds of people.

dear 8:12 so vulgar. “artfag”

seriously, Madison is known for being a well rounded school where people can major in whatever department and get a good education. your usage of name calling is purely juvenile, and I dare you to go home and say those words to your mother. Who is a cunt.

See how invalid that last comment makes my argument? Don’t bring that weak stuff in here.

Many people do more than worry about their pocketbooks and status in society when choosing a major. I’m not saying you should go into debt needlessly, but there are many more reasons to major in the humanities than meet the eye. A student studying the humanities cares just as deeply about their field, its relevance, and its importance to society as a student studying engineering. And I’m inclined to think they are correct to feel that way.

If a society has advanced technology, life-saving medicines, and a thriving economy, what is it without the study of the past? Without an understanding and appreciation of other cultures and differing ways of perceiving and ordering the world? Without the study of human behavior? Without those elements, we are doomed to endless conflicts based on ethnic, religious, and and racial differences. We are doomed to self-ignorance.

That said, I think this article was carelessly written, and the author’s unabashed bias shines through. He has clearly stereotyped students of humanities as being selfless martyrs possessing better judgment, whereas students of the sciences as selfish, foppish and unintelligent. I am a student of the humanities, and I believe his characterization is unfair and offensive.

The fact is that the division between the sciences and the humanities is artificial. Both need to be studied for a society to flourish and both need to be allotted adequate funds so that they can thrive on our campus.

One common misconception is that humanities majors go on to be poor and that there are no rich donors giving to the humanities. In fact, many humanities majors are highly creative individuals who go on to harness that creativity with successful careers in science and technology. They give money to the arts, and they give a lot of it. Note the Overture Center, which is in financial trouble because of the stock market and poor choice of programming in their opening seasons, not because of a lack of donors.

“The reason for such a disparity is because federal funds and grants are pouring into the fields of math and science because technology is ostensibly going to save our economic situation.”

I have to disagree. It’s because of a simple economic principle called supply and demand that you would learn if you stepped out of your Humanities-loving shell and took Econ 101.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the humanities too. (But I’m in engineering because I like that more) But the reason an science prof would get paid more than than English prof is becuse either demand is higher or supply is lower for engineering profs than English profs. (Same goes for why business faculty is the among the highest paid faculuty at UW.) That’s why we must invest so much more in science, among other reasons (ie a reasearch size nuclear reactor costs more $$ than paperback versions of Wuthering Heights.)

I don’t agree that science and math don’t teach valuable critical thinking, that’s why everyone must take math/science courses from elementary up.

But, there is no reason why the humanities should be looked down upon for what it contributes. There is a place in society for all levels and areas of learning.

Things that we all do everyday: watch movies/tv, reading books/newspaper, listening to music,etc. All of those things are based in the humanities so why should their be any less value placed on them?

The Humanities building is a pit and it does need to be torn down. I don’t know about the history behind the other new buildings and what their predecessors problems were but asbestos in the ceiling and cockroaches in classrooms are health problems.

This kid has absolutely no place writing this article. He is a freshman, yet he thinks he has some authority to speak on the “lack of critical thinking” in math and science? Give me a break.

This kid smacks of bitter defeat. He couldn’t hack it in math or science, so he switched his major to English because he was “really interested in French Postmodernism” and dedicated his ample free time to railing against the very pursuits that are holding this country together.

Do tell me what math classes you’ve taken (in your first and only semester) that were scantron-based.

I challenge you to take a job as an engineer and last more than a day at it without ‘thinking critically.’ You can’t, because it is the job of the engineer to take what society offers and make it better. You kinda have to think critically to do that, ya know?

Humanities-based classes and/or majors are the reason that there are so many people with Bachelor Degrees that can’t get a job because these classes are a waste of time and don’t help people with their lives. Similarily, humanities-based classes and majore are the reason that Bachelors Degrees have become so watered-down and not nearly as commendable as they were 15-20 years ago, and beyond. If I were UW,or any other UW school for that matter, I would be embarressed at how many useless/insignificant degrees exist in today’s academic world. Whether people want to like or not, the purpose for attending college is to get a degree that will lead to one getting a good, family supporting job/career. If people have the money to waste taking classes that lead to them getting degrees with emphases on useless majors like ancient mesopotamia, black theology, basket-weaving, etc… then that is their business. However, I don’t want to then hear them complain when they can’t find a good job to support themselves.

How many math/science majors can say they honestly chose their major because they enjoyed it?

A university is about collaboration. It is about using every one person’s best skills, and creating a breathing, thriving engine of innovation that can propel us into a world we never thought could have existed before we came together.

There’s a Dow chemical commercial that talks about how there’s a HUman element in chemistry—that chemistry and humanity are joined together at the most fundamental levels of interaction. To do the chemistry that helps us understand who we are is essential; to communicate that connection is essential. Some people are better at the chemistry, some people are better at the communication. They are both elemental.

We live in an interdisciplinary world, and to not understand that only stifles the growth of our university community. We need only look to the virtual collapse of the economy to show how one-sided thinking can endanger even the most profitable sectors of our own communities.

So, everyone who’s been all about vociferously defending their style of critical thinking or vacuously insulting others, take time to think about the power of bringing diverse minds together, and ask yourself if we’re really as disconnected as we might appear to be.

This is utterly ridiculous. Mr. Johnson believes that math and science have no critical thinking skills? The Humanities Department needs a fighting chance?

Well then I have to ask: what Math class are you taking? What Engineering classes have you taken? You need to remember, Mr. Johnson, that there are harder Math classes and Engineering classes that you do not even have the prerequisites for. Take a junior or senior level engineering class, and then let’s see if you still think there is any critical thinking involved. I think that you will find out that you need to learn some math and science before you can start to solve the harder problems in math, science, and engineering.

I never had a Scantron sheet in any one of my Math classes. Again, what Math classes are you are taking?

I think that you have made a very biased judgment on something that you know nothing about. Your knowledge of the arts has disgusted me, and your knowledge of critical thinking has made me sick.

You are making Madison look bad, and this story should be pulled. You are making the Wisconsin Idea look bad. Have you heard of the Wisconsin Idea yet? Look into it, or watch a Badger game. There is always a commercial about it once per game.

If you wanted to understand a little bit about the humanities, why are you reading from a book, when you could understand perfectly well through real-life situations?

Real quickly, I want to tell you about myself.

Instead of going to college after high school, I joined the Marine Corps in August, 2001. I was in boot camp when 9/11 happened. I was in the Iraqi War when it started, and did two tours there. If you want to change the World, then join the military. If you want to learn about the humanity of the world, the military might teach you about what is going on in the World.

Why is it that when I was in Iraq, many people I saw were happy that we were there, yet when I come home, I have gotten into a million and one arguments about how the people of Iraq are happy we are there, and should be there. Who is the real human? Those who read one story about Iraq, and become experts? Or those who have been there? You want to be a real human? You need to experience life, and help out in the World, instead of asking for handouts.

You claim to be a real human in this “chaotic world”, but what have you seen in your life? Do you really understand what it is like to cry after seeing a friend after he has been shot in the head, or do you understand it completely just by reading about it? You are the prime example of humanity, aren’t you?

Then you should have gone to the military, and done something for the World, instead of reading about someone else doing something for the World.

You claim that there is a $30K difference from Humanities Department employees and other fields. Have you taken Economics yet?

Then there is also the problem with the economics of it. What type of jobs can you acquire by having a Literature degree? What type of jobs can you acquire with an Engineering degree? Obviously, the Engineering is going to make more, because there is a higher demand for that. The higher the demand, the higher the pay. The lower the demand, the lower the pay. (Supply and Demand Curve information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SupplyandDemand)

Why do we have to wait for more funding? Barack Obama said in his President-Elect Acceptance Speech that he is going to help us, but he needs our help, too. He said that he cannot do it by himself. That is your cue to start making a change by making the Humanities Department look better, more attractive, and intelligent. That is your cue that you should remember what the Humanities Department did for you, and to remember them when you are a Professional someday in whatever you choose.

It sounds to me like your classes are not challenging. You are asking for more competition, which is good, but are you challenging yourself, like President-Elect Barack Obama asked of you? Are you taking classes with Honors credit? Are you going above and beyond? Remember, this is a University, and not a High School. To me, a University is a place to where you can foster techniques on how to learn, and it is up to you to learn the material, and to become a leader in your field. It is not the Professor’s fault that you failed the test, or that the test is too easy. It’s your fault. If the classes are too easy, talk to the Professor about it. Go into office hours, and ask for more work. Take a directed study in whatever you feel like, join an Undergraduate Research Team. This is a University, and you get to choose the classes you take, and the work that you do. If you aren’t happy with it, I am sure that some course will challenge you. If not, then learn on your own. Is funding really the problem with the competition? Or is it our (the students, that is) attitude that is the problem?

Where do all these nice new buildings come from? Why are they here? Have you seen the recent construction in the Wisconsin Institute of Discovery that is being built? You can read about it at http://wid.wisc.edu if you choose. Do you know why it is being built? I won’t tell you the history, I expect you to read the site.

I do want to mention that Professor Dewitt and the Database Professors here have written many of the white papers in the computer science research community, and are highly respected in the Computer Science community. Microsoft is generously giving Research Assistantships for Graduate Students interested in the work done there, which is why the new buildings are going up, among the other private donations coming in from the successful alumni.

There is a lot of money in the patent business, too. Many Engineering Professors have made important discoveries on things such as a Multi-Core Processor, which is found in many modern desktop computers. This brings in money to the University, which helps us all out, not just the Engineering students, you have to see that.

This money came from the hard work of Professors who made the difference. By complaining about funding, we are not making a difference. By making a discovery in International Relations, you are making a discovery. You will get recognized, and the University will get recognized. This will attract intelligent students, and the Professors will get paid more. The difference starts in the students, though, and not in the funding.

They have done their homework, and their homework has paid off tenfold. The Humanities Department can easily follow suit, if it chooses to become known as the best Department, but it starts at the students, and not at the Professors. The students determine the pace of the classes, and the difficulty of the classes.

I found this letter on the website, which you can read here, and it discusses this issue in detail: http://www.ohr.wisc.edu/HRMemos/2008-09%20PayPlanPresReillylettertoJCOER.pdf After I read it, I really do not feel sorry for Professors anymore. We have the highest paid Math Professor getting $149,000 a year to work 9 months out of the year, and he is looking for other offers. It’s all about the money to them. The highest paid History Professor getting paid $147,000 a year. I looked into it a little more, and there is an organization who does annual compensation for professors and alike in Universities. Take a look at this chart: http://www.aaup.org/NR/rdonlyres/C98CAC79-4E8A-42B8-B034-BACF37E6DF03/0/zreport.pdf .

Why does everyone expect handouts? If the Humanities program had successful alumni, then they should reinvest in the program, just as John Morgridge has done. When outstanding students come out of the Department, they often feel like they should return the favor. Shouldn’t you be asking the Professors to make better classes, or harder classes, or ask some of the Humanities alumni for some funding instead?

You want to make a change? Make an interesting and important discovery in Humanities or Journalism, and reinvest your money in the Humanities building when you strike it rich, after your education is completed. Make a difference in the World. Do you know how to stop genocide? Write about it. Better yet, try to stop one. That’s the real challenge.

Now, I admit I do not know who graduated in the Humanities department that was successful, but I am sure that there are many successful alumni. Why not look for their pocket book?

When you major in Engineering or Computer Science, it is not like you forget about the Humanities.

Computer Science is what made the computer available for you to rant on. It made you this website, and it gave me the E-mail about your ridiculous essay.

It is important because it makes us be able to communicate more effectively. In the Engineering and Science fields, we have to solve new problems everyday which requires critical thinking. Look around you.

—| I know this is a run-on |—

The cars we drive, the planes we fly, the rockets we make, the satellites we use, the phone you talk on, the traffic lights to stop at to prevent accidents, the computer you use to do your research on, the online catalog, the MADCAT, and all the other Research tools available to you, the printing press, the TV you watch to get your news, the cable you get in your house, the Internet you use to register for classes, the online tools you use to see what classes are available and that you sign up for, the E-mails you get from your professors, the solar panels, the windmills, the gasoline you put in your car made from crude oil, the trains that bring the coal to make your electricity, the lights that allow you to see in the dark instead of candles when reading, the HVAC you use to make the temperature moderate when it is freezing outside so that you can study for that big exam, the dorms you may be living in, the bridges you use to get across lakes and the Mississippi River, the graphics you enjoy on your films, the paper that you read, the DVD you watch movies on, the projector, PowerPoint, how you can figure out what the weather is like in Dublin, Ireland, Google, how McDonald’s food is made, the soda you drink, plastic, the mechanical pencil you write with, the ability to write on paper, having notebooks, Notebook computers, Tablet PCs, a public transportation system such as buses, and trains, and believe me, this is only a start, but I could continue on.

These all are a result of Science and Engineering solving some type of problem that makes your life easier in some way, shape, or form. It allows you to become a more effective and better person, if you choose. It can help our Humanity by making us communicate better, by making our communication more clear, by sending messages around the World in a minute. Science and engineering has made great steps in globalization, and the understanding of different cultures. It has made a big step towards accepting other people of different color, different race.

When the tsunami in Thailand hit, we already had boots on the ground, and Special Forces on the ground in order to maintain order and prevent chaos, and to help stranded people, give medical aid and hospitals on our Aircraft Carriers, provide many thousands of fresh water, give humanitarian aid to those who had lost everything, set up shelters for people to be able to sleep, help save people who were stranded on the tops of their houses from the water, and prevent crimes, looting, and stealing from people when a natural disaster happened.

What could we have done, and how long would it have taken us to get there if it happened 400 years ago? How long would it have taken for us to hear about it, send ships, get aid, and how much could we have helped?

It would not have been possible without Math, Science, and Engineering, and it helped out humanity, and saved lives, and helped people.

You want to know a hard problem to solve?
Try working on these:

How do I make a 2,000 foot bridge sturdy enough?
How do I make a fuel-efficient car that carries two people and gets 100 Miles per Gallon?
How do I get a spaceship out of our atmosphere, and come back, without burning up in the atmosphere?
How do I make the Internet? If I make a 1,500 foot building, why would the top need to sway up to 10 feet in order to prevent it from collapsing? How do I make a traffic light? How do I coordinate the traffic lights so everyone you come to does not turn red? How do I make electricity from wind, water, steam, or the sun? How do I make a printing press? How do I make paper out of a tree? How do I make a watch?
How do I keep the time on the watch accurate? How can I make a machine that milks cows so that I don’t have to milk them by hand? What would I do if I knew that I was genetically disposed to diabetes? Is giving large corporations $700 billion in bailout money a good thing, or a bad thing? Why or why not? Prove your theory.

These are all questions that you will not find the answers to on a Scantron sheet. Thankfully, all of these questions have been answered.

I think you would find that you would miss a lot of the luxuries that math, science, and engineering have provided all of us.

Be an idea starter, and don’t be the guy that comes to the University of Wisconsin asking for handouts.

I know this is long, but here is my final statement. We need humanities. You tell us what all of the problems are, and we get a chance to try and fix them for you.

We need to work together, and understand what other people do for us in order to make us better people. Everyone has their part, and not everyone can be a watch maker. If everyone made watches, how would we learn? We need teachers, too. And bakers, and truck drivers, and believe it or not, we also need math, science, and engineering. I thought that you would have learned that already.

“How many math/science majors can say they honestly chose their major because they enjoyed it?”

I can easily name a dozen off the top of my head…not including myself.

Our country is still in the name of under-developed and all thanks to those who do not support other field students!!!! its not that country can be developed only by takin science as a major subject…… There are many who thinks only weak students take humanities as their major subject….. its as if science students do not fail and they are always successful in their life!!! I m not sayin that science is not the major subject to be taken but never-ever underestimate other subjects…… Everything has its own importance!!!!

“How do I coordinate the traffic lights so everyone you come to does not turn red?” Obviously Madison hasn’t figured out the answer to that one yet.