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Republican guest will distort Islam
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Also by James Sonneman:
- Madison cannot fix Gaza conflict (January 29, 2009)
- Minnesota faces unenviable dilemma in Senate recount (January 16, 2009)
- Fraternities not entirely to blame for UW's drinking debacle (December 3, 2008)
- Election serves up some real 'change' (November 5, 2008)
- Republican guest will distort Islam (October 15, 2008)
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I received an e-mail Monday. It said Robert Spencer was coming to Madison to speak on behalf of the UW-College Republicans. It probably hit many people’s inboxes — I’m not necessarily on their personal mailing list. The message read, “Jihad: What Muslims say it Means and Why It Matters.” I am overly excited. As Voltaire said, “I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous. And God granted it.”
My first reaction was along the lines of, “Well, Bob, Muslims have lots of different things to say about jihad, considering that there’s over a billion of them.” It’s going to take forever for him to cover everything. He probably won’t.
Ahmed Rashid, Muslim writer of the lauded book “Taliban” said, “Essentially jihad is the inner struggle of a Muslim to become a better human being, improve himself and his community.” This is a far cry from the common misconception that jihad means a holy war against unbelievers. Granted, some Muslims do include violence as a part of jihad, but they are certainly in the minority. If there were half a billion Muslims who felt this way, we would be wholly aware of it and not need the evening with Robert Spencer.
My main problem with Spencer is that he confuses the term Islam with radical-Islamism. In his book “The Truth About Muhammad,” he spends a mere two pages attempting to debunk the distinction between the two. He claims, “Many Muslims, even those who are quite serious about their faith, have only a dim awareness of what [Koranic] texts actually say.” Spencer goes on to define Islam as being built ideologically and historically on foundations of violence, so, therefore, no separation is necessary. He goes on to claim moderate Muslims simply do not understand what their Holy Book means, even to themselves, so we should not draw a distinction between their religion and radical-Islamism. The claim is as preposterous as the conclusion.
For making such arguments, Spencer calls himself politically incorrect. Others call him racist. Most academics and people who study the Middle East call him flat-out wrong. His words are never on their face racist — he does not shout expletives at Sarah Palin rallies. And whether or not Islam is actually a race seems to negate the point. What he does is readily foment division — such as the ever-present “Muhammad versus Jesus” information boxes in the book, “The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam.” By creating an “us-versus-them” mentality, it is not a stretch to say Spencer sows the seeds of racism in the minds of his undiscerning readers.
His body of work is another example of attention-seeking politicians and writers attempting to characterize the entire Muslim population as something that is — by any stretch of the imagination — the complete picture. He wants to be noticed, and many in Madison will oblige, ready to tell him off. He won’t care. He is armed with quotes from radical Islamists and punts them off as accepted by moderate Muslims. Utilizing selective fact checking, he plays off of fear and national identity to harness his audience. Rhetoric such as Spencer’s is very convenient because it gives many Americans the sense we are fighting a war like WWII, us against totalitarianism. That makes us feel good.
Spencer’s mistake is failing to draw a distinction between moderate Muslims and the religion’s militaristic fragmentations. This feeds the perception that the War on Terror is a war on Islam, which only encourages misplaced fear. A very intelligent friend once said la peur est très mauvaise conseillère — “fear is a very bad advisor.” Take heed to this message when Spencer speaks.
James Sonneman (sonneman@wisc.edu) is a senior majoring in political science and history.
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Just for the record, Islam is not a race, it is a religion. Therefore, the term racist cannot be applied to Mr. Spencer.
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I couldn’t agree more with this article, Robert Spencer sows seeds of divisiveness and hate.
What I’ve always wondered is, why would someone dedicate their life to something they despise so much?
I’m not saying he has to love Islam like he were a Muslim, but at the least, be objective, if for nothing else than to maintain your own credibility in the field you’ve dedicated yourself to.
It almost makes you feel sorry for him.
http://islamoblog.blogspot.com
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Could not be more appropriate or correct.
This guy and David Horowitz should be on death row; bigotry on this big a scale should be grounds for capital punishment.
I especially enjoyed my own SO finally getting posted; check out (A)SO # 804!
Others should speak up and oppose this man coming to campus; specifically, the COLLEGE REPUBLICANS should make a stand if they want to improve their image at Madison.
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What I’ve always wondered is, why would someone dedicate their life to something they despise so much?
to study your enemy is to know your enemy
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I’d be willing to wager that neither Spencer or Horowitz has ever once called for the death penalty for those who disagreed with them. That’s because they are far less bigoted than the fool who called for capital punishment (or who would want any punishment whatsoever) against them. Nor do those opposing Spencer’s visit to campus understand the mission of a university, to allow people of many viewpoints to discuss their differences, rather than seek to deny free expression.
The Muslim Student Association should strive to improve its own image by showing their support for the free exchange of ideas, rather than behaving as fear-mongering censors striving to stifle free speech. Perhaps the MSA wouldn’t so despise their opponents if they were able to make sound logical and intellectual defenses to the challenges people like Spencer and Horowitz make. By focusing on ad hominem attacks and trying to either forbid or disrupt free speech, the MSA appears to be an organization dedicated to undermining one of the primary functions of a university.
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2:05 a.m. - To suggest a person be killed by electrocution for having an opinion, however unsavory you find it, is revolting.
Read the Constitution and then…wait. I find your opinion so repugnant, I order you to turn yourself in for killing my otherwise wonderful morning.
Here’s a thought regarding some of the other comments: Instead of listening to what other people tell you to think about the author, why don’t you pick up one of his books and read it yourself.
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This should go over well with the uneducated…or as I call them, “My base”.
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“This guy and David Horowitz should be on death row”
Off with their heads! Yup, I wouldn’t expect anything else from a Fascist. Get yourself a brown shirt and shout the fellow down at least!
Submit or die, that’s Jihad, that’s Islam.
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Citing Spencer’s postions and then squawking “preposterous” is not an argument. You need to rebut the EVIDENCE, which is extremely well documented in Spencer’s scholarly texts.
Have failed to do so, your gratuitous attacks are equally gratuitiously dismissed.
Grade: F-
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psychotic @ 2:05am shrieked: “This guy and David Horowitz should be on death row”
Why did the Editors feel it was necessary to publish this thinly-veiled death threat?
Please report the IP address of the sender to local authorities. Threat issuers should be barred from the event.
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Ahmad Rashid is a journalist and a quasi-truth-teller. His book Taliban is full of all kinds of defender-of-the-faith misstatements. And he never comes close to discussing— in writing (for prying infidel eyes)— the texts, tenets, attitudes, and atmospherics of Islam; with which, of course, he is perfectly familiar.
In Muslim terms, he might be described as a secularist, but he is still a Defender-of-the-Faith when he feels he needs to be. Long ago he defined “Jihad,” in his book of the same name, in the usual “struggling-internally-to-be-a-good-Muslim” terms that would please Karen Armstrong and John Esposito. That was shameful. He would not (I suspect) attempt do so today. He knows that Infidels (or most intelligent and alert Infidels) know perfectly well what nonsense that is.
Spencer has produced a mountain of evidence to show that one of the most important of the meanings of jihad throughout Islamic history and today has been warfare (with guns and bombs and swords, not rhetorical warfare) against non-Muslims. Let the Rashid forthrightly acknowledge that fact and renounce his specious misunderstanding of jihad… then maybe we’ll be getting somewhere.
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I have rarely read such a bad article.
Quote: “My main problem with Spencer is that he confuses the term Islam with radical-Islamism.” My problem is with people such as the author of this article who fail to see the blindingly obvious. Democracy ensured Hamas and Hezbollah were elected to power. Ordinary muslims wanted these parties in power (that’s why it’s called democracy) and the pattern is being repeated across the Muslim world. Once in power such Islamic parties persecute non-Muslims. It is Muslims doing the persecution as has been the case since Mohammed started his marauding rampage.
The usual “racist” accusation reared its ugly head. Many of the most fierce opponents of Islam are ex-Muslims. Most of these ex-Muslims are Pakistani, Arab, Iranian (especially) Malaysian, Indonesian etc. A remarkable phenomenon happens when a person leaves Islam - they change race, so that they may criticise Islam. Robert Spencer has had death threats made against him - by Muslims, not “radical Islamists”. Salman Rushdie had the same made against him by, guess who? - Muslims. To my knowledge neither Spencer or Rushdie have threatened to kill anyone.
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Why is it that Moslems and their apologists always talk about murdering those that don’t submit to their beliefs?
Of course they don’t always talk, they riot, burn and murder over stuff like movies and cartoons that they don’t like.
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1:03 am, would you prefer the term “bigot”? Because that would fit Spencer very well, as it would fit anyone who relies on hateful stereotypes to describe over a billion people, most of whom have nothing to do with the BS he’s spewing.
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islam, islamic terror, jihadist islam, and yes, even moderate islam is all the same. Unfortunately they all believe, but not all follow the literal teachins found in the koran/quran, hadith and all the relevant respected imams and islamic scholars throughout the globe. islam teaches hate, violence against non-believers and human rights violations on not only females but any and all non-believers, not limited to murder only. The fact that not all islamist followers committ violence is not to say that if they followed the alleged religion literally as they are supposed to jihad against all who don’t believe or just stand in the way of islam reigning supreme over the whole earth is their failure to follow the word of god as it is taught. islam is the enemy of each and every freedom loving human being on the planet and if followed as it is taught, each and every believer would be committing if not violent insurection against the western society at list cultural jihad against it.
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nowhere in the koran does it claim jihad is the inner struggle of a believer to be a better human being, this is another lie from the islamic oppologits to cover the fact that jihad is violence against non-islam in order to make islam supreme, the highest pinnicle of faith in islam is jihad and jihad is war on all other religions until islam is supreme. the truth hurts islam that is why the oppologists try to explain jihad’s violence, hate and the murder of inocents used to promote it away. Sorry muzzi wimp, it’s the truth and it will raigne supreme over any false doctrine. Later, Willy d.
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If you think that this is going to be a hateful lecture on intolerance and “Islamophobia”, you’re sadly mistaken and I would encourage you to come see what it’s really about. Maybe you’ll learn something.
6:45 tonight in Great Hall of the Memorial Union
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Wow. Misinformation alert. Mr. Sonneman needs to spend more time reading the Islamic texts themselves and less time with dissimulating Muslims (practicing taqiyyah) and reading books by Saudi-financed professors.
Read Bukhari, the most authoratitive Islamic hadith collection (hadith are the words and deeds of Mohammad). 97% of the references to jihad in Bukhari are military, not personal interior struggle.
Here’s a quote from Allah himself encouraging jihad in Muslims against all non-believers:
“I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.” The Koran, 8.12
And a quote from Mohammad after his successful military (jihad) conquest of Arabia:
“Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy)’” Hadith of Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220
Here’s how a Saudi translation of the Koran defines jihad for Muslim readers in a footnote the first time the word jihad appears:
“Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah’s Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies as a hypocrite.”
This definition is found on page 39 of the Noble Qur’an translation by Muhammed Khan and distributed by “King Fahd Complex for the Printing of the Holy Qur’an—The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques.
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I would urge Mr Sonneman to read former Egyptian Muslim Nonie Darwish’s book, “Now They Call Me Infidel”. Here is a quote where she discusses how jihad was presented to her as a girl and young adult in “moderate” Egypt:
“Throughout my childhood, we were bombarded with calls to war and songs praising President Nasser. … War songs glorifying martyrdom and jihad echoed above all other music over the airwaves of Egyptian radio. The song “Ya Mujahid Fe Sabil Allah”, meaning “Holy Warrior for the Sake of Allah” was a particularly fiery song that inspired war and violence with the following lyrics:
War is the day we all wish for, Stand up Hero with our swords and join the thousands The whole world will witness tomorrow that we are Arabs, Known for our war heritage that we perfected to an art form, Hey mujahid for the sake of Allah! Mujahid, martyrs for Allah.
Such songs glorifying jihad, Arab land, martrydom, war, and revenge played all day long on the radio, and even when the radio was off, they continued playing in our heads. No Arab could avoid the culture of jihad. Jihad is not some esoteric concept. In the Arab world, the meaning of jihad is clear: It is a religious holy war against infidels, an armed struggle against anyone who is not a Muslim. It is a fight for Allah’s cause to promote Islamic dominion in the world.” (page 33)
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Amazing! You haven’t yet heard what Robert Spencer will say but you have provided your own sarchastic and misinformed analyses of what you think he will say!
Another shining example of open mindedness by a truly tolerance seeking, diversity embracing liberal.
“O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous. And God granted it.” Indeed. You are hoist by your own petard!
Invictus Maneo
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This article is ridiculous. Robert is AGAINST THE JIHADISTS! His plainly stated aims are to stand up for human rights and freedom (freedom of speech, thought, conscience, etc, etc), equality of sexes, rule of law and all the good and civilizing things about our Western (yes, read Judeo-Christian) culture.
Jihadists are pretty much against everything I just mentioned. Robert Spencer is simply pointing out WHAT THE JIHADISTS SAY!
And he is objective. what he says, among other things, are the following (and they’re all true!):
-EVERY SCHOOL of Islamic jurisprudence considers jihad to be war on unbelievers, and a duty, as well.
-Al Qaeda justifies murder by quoting the Qu’ran (and correctly, too).
-Sharia law is inherently inequal and inhumane.
Instead of vilifying Spencer why don’t you TELL THE JIHADISTS THEY’RE WRONG! (Not us anti-jihadists—we’re not the ones killing in the name of our God every SINGLE DAY all over this planet.)
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I guess the only people who truly know Islam are self-righteous Christians, amiright?
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Wow, is this 2004 all over?
Wake up, your stock market sprung a leak!
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“Not all of them are alike: of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews) are a portion that stand (for the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: they are in the ranks of the righteous. Of the good that they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those that do right.” Qu’ran 3: 113-115
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“O mankind! We created your from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other (not that you may despise each other).” Qu’ran 49:13
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The amount of Ignorance on this wall is frightening. All forms of Islamic worship are the same? By this analogy everyday church goers are on the same level those involved at the Waco Massacre (specifically they were Branch Davidians, which is a splinter group from the Seventh-day Adventist Church, a recognized form of Christianity)?
And Sarah M. there is nothing to learn here. Your lecturer is not an expert on Islam. The fact that Horowitz (who is a bigot) endorses him is enough to ruin any credibility he might have.
I have to wonder what Mr. Spencer would have to say about the mosque that was gassed during the end of Ramadan not even a month ago in Dayton, Ohio. Are these attacks justified according to Mr. Spencer?
As far as the democracy of the Iraqi elections go this is well contested by firsthand accounts of said elections. Of course Hamas was elected, seeing as he had the Sunni militia on his side to scare Shias away from polling places.
Read some first hand accounts from REAL Iraqi people, or at least journalists who have done more than hang around with the U.S. army, Dahr Jamial is a good start. Or keep feeding into the lies that Fox News feeds you everynight.
WAR MACHINE, Tear it down!
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How many “self-righteous Christians” have cut off peoples heads lately?
They may not approve of gays but they don’t insist that they must be murdered.
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“O you who have attained to faith! Be ever steadfast in your devotion to God, bearing witness to the truth in all equity; and never let hatred of any-one lead you into the sin of deviating from justice. Be just: this is closest to being God-conscious. And remain consscious of God: verily, God is aware of all that you do.” Qu’ran: 5:8
Allah also tells us that whoever kills a soul in murder or for spreading corruption in the land, it is as if he has killed the whole of humanity….the WHOLE of humanity…
For non-arabic speakers, Jihad in arabic means struggle….we all have struggles right? I struggle with everyday things like trying not to speak ill of others…or just plain trying to be a good person…
“Jihadists” truly is a term that has been cast out to the media channels…and to “extremist” groups that call themselves Muslims….and unfortunately many people have bit the bait and have been reeled in.
Check out Sofia Baig….she has a nice spoken poem called “The Jihad Within.”
Peace to all!
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The sweeping generalizations of the Islamic world I am seeing in these posts are causing my opinion of my fellow students and peers at the University of Wisconsin to plummet. And this is on top of the shame I’ve felt calling myself a Republican after the invitation extended to Robert Spencer by the CRs. Associating with bigots like Spencer is not going to help get John McCain or any other conservative politician get elected, guys.
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Way to go, 2:52. I’d add that the only religion which ever had/has radical fundies who support violence in the name of God was probably Islam. And Fred Phelps isn’t a “radical” Christian, he’s just your regular, garden-variety Christian. ‘Cuz they’re the same. Right?
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I’m curious. Why do so many Muslims refer to Jews as a distinct race? Both were racially Semitic way back in the day, yet Islam and Judaism are religions, not biological identities.
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Mike Huckabee for President!!
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@3:43
Uhm… none in America as of recent, though if you recall a thing called the Crusades…
And there are plenty of ‘Christians’ who feel that gays SHOULD be killed…. But it would be wrong to generalize all Christians as the same as the members Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan. Seriously, take a look at what you are saying. There are members of ALL religions who murder and glorify war via the means of God (George Bush anybody?), but that doesn’t mean you have to judge every member of that faith by the actions of a few select individuals.
I would say Christian extremism is a lot more frightening than Islamic extremism…. I mean, you people managed to re-elect Bush. What’s more frightening than that?
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Heh, you college students will really get to see what “Jihad” means in the next few decades. Look at what’s happening in Europe and the UK. It’s almost too late to save them…
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Ron Paul! :)
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Islam plainly and clearly calls for the death of all non muslims, Muslims like to say “Islam forbids the killing of innocent people”, Islamic scripture makes it clear disbelievers are guilty , IF objecting to this doctrine is bigotry so be it, I believe it may be justified in this case.
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LMAO! Robert Spencer dices and filets Sonneman’s specious arguments;
“…as for last night’s event, the campus paper yesterday contained a sneering editorial entitled “Republican guest will distort Islam,” by one James Sonneman, a “a senior majoring in political science and history,” who affects cigarette-smoking cool in his column photo but has little actual knowledge behind the smoke.
With the smug assurance of the semi-educated, Sonneman asserted in his piece that I confuse “the term Islam with radical-Islamism,” and that I claim that “moderate Muslims simply do not understand what their Holy Book means, even to themselves, so we should not draw a distinction between their religion and radical-Islamism.” He goes on to say that “the claim is as preposterous as the conclusion,” and it’s true: to say such a thing would be preposterous, but what is actually preposterous is this young man’s claim that this is my position. What Sonneman is mangling here is my pointing out the fact that all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence and all the sects of Islam that Muslims generally accept as orthodox teach that warfare against and subjugation of unbelievers is part of the religious duty of the Islamic community. That claim is open to objective verification or debunking, as is my further rather commonplace observation that significant numbers of Muslims are not on board with this agenda. This is not because they do not understand their religion, as Sonneman claims is my entire explanation for the fact, but because they have not been taught that this is an important religious obligation for them to fulfill, or because they are simply not that fervent, or any number of other reasons, including but not limited to the very real possibility that some who identify themselves as believers may not be well instructed in the tenets of their faith — particularly because prayers and Qur’an recitation must be in 7th-century classical Arabic, and most Muslims today are not Arabs, and most Arabs themselves are not fluent in 7th-century classical Arabic…
[Readers should take the time to browse the whole thing. Delicious!] http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/023119.php
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He claims, “Many Muslims, even those who are quite serious about their faith, have only a dim awareness of what [Koranic] texts actually say.
and he is right the vast majority of muslims in the middle east while they have memorized the quran in ARABIC don’t speak or understand ARABIC and are just chanting what is gibrish to them jim s try really learning history and prove your not the idiot you seem to be
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He says it is preposterous to claim that “moderate Muslims simply do not understand what their Holy Book means”
In the next paragraph, he claims,”some who identify themselves as believers may not be well instructed in the tenets of their faith”.
So does Spencer believe that moderate Muslims are ignorant of the teachings of the Koran or not?
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Those who are claiming, without evidence, that Robert Spencer is a “bigot,” “racist,” etc., ought to read carefully what Spencer actually writes before they make these baseless claims. Check out his jihadwatch site, and click on Robert Spencer to find out what he actually thinks about Muslims and Islam.
Jaclyn Sorensen apparently misrepresented verse 5:32 from the Quran, which she presents as “…whoever kills a soul in murder or for spreading corruption in the land, it is as if he has killed the whole of humanity….the WHOLE of humanity…”
That is probably an honest mistake. Sorensen’s incorrect quote implies that it’s a terrible thing to kill someone for murder or “spreading corruption.” The actual verse, however, suggests that killing someone for the crime of spreading corruption is acceptable:
“For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs (of Allah’s Sovereignty), but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.”
The very next verse (5:33) states:
“The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;”
In mainstream Islam, “corruption” (fasad) includes but is not limited to apostasy, blasphemy, homosexual acts, fornication and adultery, marriage between a non-Muslim man and Muslim woman, “sedition,” sorcery/witchcraft and charlatanism, etc. In strict Islamic countries, the death penalty is implemented for any one of these sin-crimes. In less strict Islamic countries, there are nevertheless various “lesser” penalties (e.g., imprisonment) for many of the above sin-crimes. In a broad sense, corruption refers to behaviours and systems that are un-Islamic, contrary to the Quran, in opposition to the rule of Islamic law. Basically, anything that threatens the spread and maintenance of the Islamic meme is “corruption,” against which Muslims are obligated to wage jihad of various sorts (psychological, social, political, legal, military, etc., depending on the circumstances)
It must be kept in mind that “justice” means something quite different in Islamic jurisprudence specifically as compared to Western society generally.
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It is sad to see such hatred perpetuated like this…Why can’t we all just be friends? :-)
Islam doesn’t call for non-Muslims to be killed you goofballs! If it did, why would I (raised Christian, convert to Islam) want to be a Muslim then? If what you are alleging is true, then my entire family (who are a conglomeration of Christians and some atheists) should be wiped out? Come on people…Islam embraces structure in life, it guides us to be good people. It is a religion for everyone: anywhere, anytime.
Just because we have some boneheads who made it to mainstream media, doesn’t mean THEY are Islam.
The Holy Qu’ran, for those who don’t know, has been preserved in its original form since revelation. That was one of the many things that drew me (American as you can get) to Islam.
Also, seeing that I am an American, I didn’t grow up speaking arabic….Mr. Spencer alleges that Muslims don’t know arabic…well, we pray at LEAST 5 times a day in arabic…and we greet fellow Muslims in arabic…we learn as we grow in emaan (faith)….
So many things to chat about, so little time. Hopefully some of you are able to attend the panel discussion that will be scheduled soon at the UW.
By the way, I am still not seeing the connection between Republicans and anti-Islamic hate propaganda…. ??? I was given a flyer that said “Palestine: America’s Enemy” I was like huh? LOL!
Peace to all!
Ohhhh my goodness, SO SO SO many misconceptions, and so much hate.
I have many convert friends who were raised just like many of you reading or writing on this blog….they are good people, just as I am sure many of you are as well. We as Muslims condemn terrorism. I say that loudly and clearly.
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Jihad is Islamic Holy War.
James Sonneman is a stupid Leftist idiot who knows nothing about Islam. He hasn’t even read the Koran! Imbecile.
Bravo Robert Spencer - you are right.
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Jihad is Islamic Holy War.
James Sonneman is a stupid Leftist idiot who knows nothing about Islam. He hasn’t even read the Koran! Imbecile.
Bravo Robert Spencer - you are right.
Hey People - Comments have to be “approved” on this rag! Just what are you afraid of? FREEDOM OF SPEECH! FREEDOM OF SPEECH ABOUT ISLAM!
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“All forms of Islamic worship are the same?”
Answer: Yes.
There are NO denominations in Islam as there are in Christianity. There is only ONE Islam. End of story.
Like the writer of this PC trash column, you know nothing about Islam.
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Jaclyn Sorenson - You are an ignoramus who knows NOTHING about Islam.
YES -ISLAM COMMANDS NON-MUSLIMS TO BE SUBJUGATED AND/OR MASS-MURDERED - READ THE KORAN YOU IMBECILE! YOU’RE A CONVERT? HOW COULD YOU BE SO STUPID? YOUR STUPIDITY SHOWS, LOUD AND CLEAR.
YOU’RE the “goofball” and “bonehead!” You’re in college? God (Jesus) help us! Oh, and the Koran is not “holy,” - it’a mass-murder manual and Hate Book. Which the 19 9/11 Jihadists (mass-murderers) followed 100%.
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“the War on Terror is a war on Islam” —James Sonneman
Exactly. The only Terrorists are Islamic Terrorists.
Remember 9/11, James? How would you like to jump from the Twin Towers, or be incinerated by jet fuel? You double-digit IQ Islamic Apologist. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Hey People - The Badger moderates Free Speech comments - so your anti-Islam comments won’t be printed because they’re not Badger PC! What a surprise!
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Funny how the “Anonymous” who posted at 10 AM throws out the phrase “The Crusades,” but knows nothing about them, obviously.
Bravo Crusades! And Charles Martel in 632 and Jan Sobieski in 1683!
Without the above, you smug, illiterate students would all be wearing long beards and burqas, and mass-murdering all “Infidels,” as the Koran commands. My God, you students are ignorant and uninformed about history, Islamic history in particular. Why don’t you just put on black hefty bags, female students, and have NO rights under Islamic barbaric shar’ia law? Idiots. You deserve what you and your children are going to get when the Mohammedans take over the US due to PC MoonBats like yourselves, just as the Barbarians are taking over Western Europe right now.
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“and so much hate.” —Jaclyn Sorenson
Right. The Mohammedans are the Haters. The Koran says to mass-murder all “Infidels” until the world is “all for Allah.” Obviously you haven’t read the Koran, or you’re practicing the well-known Mohammedan deception called “al-Taqiyya.” Which is it? Because it’s one or the other.
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“well, we pray at LEAST 5 times a day in arabic” —posted above
To your non-existent pagan moon deity, “allah”?
I pity you. You whack your head 5 times a day to a pre-islamic pagan moon god that doesn’t exist. You’re to be so pitied.
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“it is not a stretch to say Spencer sows the seeds of racism in the minds of his undiscerning readers.”
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Concerning the above comment, Robert Spencer has absolutely no connection with “racism.”
Islam is not a race - it’s a RELIGION. It’s a BELIEF SYSTEM. It’s a POLITICAL IDEOLOGY.
ANY of the above, religions, belief systems, and political ideologies, can and should be scrutinized concerning their tenets. As with Fascism and Naziism, Islam’s primary tenets are Supremacism, Totalitarianism, and World Hegemony through mass-murder. READ THE KORAN! READ THE KORAN! SEE WHAT IT SAYS FOR YOURSELF!
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Salaam to everyone
Yikes, its a tough crowd up in here! Would the real anonymous’ please stand up?
I wish I could specifically address some of your comments, but you are all “anonymous.” I guess I wasn’t scared to make myself known. ;-)
For Mr./Miss Anonymous who called me ignoramous (which is actually quite a funny name that I may use again, thanks!) I’m not a student. I learned of this blog and found the posts intriguing.
If you must know titles ‘anonymous’ who insults, I already have my degrees. I am not in college nor am I affiliated with your University…I currently am a Senior level account manager at one of the largest corporations in the great country of America. I used to work for the department of defense as a contractor, among other things.
I have no affiliation to the student body at UW-Wisc.
Re: calling Muslims pagans, it just shows the lack of understanding about Islam. I hope that understanding reaches you someday. Allah is One. One God. In arabic Allah can’t be changed like the English God can be. Example, we can have God, Gods, Goddess….someone could say “Tim is the God of the soccer team.” We can’t do that with Allah….because He is only One. So, nope no moon worship going on. Although the moon sure was gorgeous last night, it looked like a cookie! :-)
Allah tells us in the qu’ran that we can say, to you your religion and to me mine. I wish you all peace in your lives and blessings.
Must get back to corporate life! Ciao!
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One last thing, because I wasn’t too clear above…The Qu’ran doesn’t call for us to wipe out all non-Muslims as you ‘anonymous’ say….It says to fight in God’s cause against those who wage war against you, but do not commit aggression for God does not love aggressors. Seems like common sense to me…if you are being attacked and people are trying to take over say your home or your land or your family, then you would stand up for your life…
I used to teach Bible study for many years, and there were many verses in the Bible that could come across as quite violent…especially when taken out of context and not taking into consideration the WHOLE of the passage, or the history of the passage etc….the same can be said for Islam…
I do believe this is God’s world, undoubtedly…
Peace out!
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JACLYN SORENSON (October 16, 2008 @ 4:09pm):
“Islam doesn’t call for non-Muslims to be killed you goofballs!”
err, yes it does.
Qur’an 9:29 You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.
JACLYN SORENSON (October 16, 2008 @ 4:09pm):
“The Holy Qu’ran, for those who don’t know, has been preserved in its original form since revelation. That was one of the many things that drew me (American as you can get) to Islam.”
First of all, you misspelled Qur’an by attributing the apostrophe in the wrong place. Also, as previously shown, you don’t know what is written in the book either. What “drew” you to Islam is another matter.
As for the author of this post, who by his own impeccable credentials on Islam (I am assuming that means what Muslinms tell him) has predetermined that Spencer will distort Islam, has displayed a talent for omniscience not seen often.
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“My main problem with Spencer is that he confuses the term Islam with radical-Islamism.”
My main problem with James Sonneman is that he in the quote above implies that there is such a thing as “radical-Islamism” that’s supposedly distinct from Islam. Nothing could be further from the truth, and Sonneman, by proposing this false distinction is guilty of laying the groundwork for a new 9/11 style attack by obscuring the identity of ideology behind 9/11, thereby weakening American and Western resistance to the enemy. Should another Islamic terror attack happen on American soil, James Sonneman will have to be considered complicit in making it happen, and will have to live with the fact that he has blood on his hands as a result of his fifth columnist behaviour.
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Yikes, its a tough crowd up in here! Would the real anonymous’ please stand up?
I wish I could specifically address some of your comments, but you are all “anonymous.”
For Mr./Miss Anonymous who called me ignoramous (which is actually quite a funny name that I may use again, thanks!) I’m not a student. I learned of this blog and found the posts intriguing.
If you must know titles anonymous who insults, I already have my degrees (not a college studen). I currently am a Senior level account manager at one of the largest corporations in the great country of America. I used to work for the department of defense as a contractor, among other things.
I have no affiliation to the student body at UW-Wisc.
Re: calling Muslims pagans, it just shows the lack of understanding about Islam. I hope that understanding reaches you someday.
Allah is One. One God. In arabic Allah can’t be changed like the English God can be. Example, in English, we can have God, Gods, Goddess….someone could say “Tim is the God of the soccer team.” We can’t do that with Allah….because He is only One. So, nope no moon worship going on. Although the moon sure was gorgeous last night, it looked like a peanut butter cookie! :-)
Do I think there are Muslims misrepresenting Islam? Absolutely! Do I think that the moderate Muslims need to stand up and make our voices heard? Absolutely!
Allah tells us in the Qu’ran that we can say, to you your religion and to me mine. I wish you all peace in your lives and blessings.
Must get back to corporate life! Ciao!
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To the “Anonymous” who is choosing to degrade us by using “Mohammedan” instead of the proper “Muslim”, Have you read the Qur’an? Do you know about the exegesis of it? Do you know of the Hadith, all of which is very dependent on which school or scholar you use? Are you aware that Surah (chapter) 109, Kaffiroun, directly states “To you be your way and to me mine”? Are you aware that there are many translations of the Qur’an into English and that some Muslims may hold as many as 10 in their homes to cross-reference while they try to learn Arabic or else supplement that which they know with that they can understand a little easier? And tell me one more thing…Do you take more issue with the fact that in our religion, the truly pious are superior instead of the loudest or the talk of responsibility for your actions in this life will affect you in the next? The Qur’an does not change. We follow it to the best of our abilities, often using intuition and guidance to understand how to use the concepts we learn. 93% of Muslims condemn terrorism using religious terminology and reasoning accord to the Gallup poll, while 7% condoned it using purely political reasoning. Those who have committed terrorist acts or lead others in them tend to be non-practicing Muslims or those with experience with the West. I would encourage you to read “Who speaks for Islam; What a billion Muslims really think” with an open mind. And while you may lament that we did not uphold your expectations at this rally, I’m sure if you gave your mind a little food for thought (with a change in cuisine) and a little air to breathe, maybe we wouldn’t seem so threatening.
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For those of you on this discussion who don’t study Muslim public opinion in the Arab world, you’ll be surprised to find out that a large majority of ordinary Muslims in places like Egypt, Algeria, Turkey, and (yes) Iraq have a rather different interpretation of the role of their religion in their political beliefs than Mr. Spence. There are literally 100s of such academic (peer-reviewed, based on a lifetime of academic research),but let me give you the links to some written by former UW-Milwaukee professor (and current Michigan prof) Mark Tessler, who has received hundreds of thousands of dollars from the US government (under Rep. and Dem. administrations) to conduct extensive surveys in the Middle East. The vast majority of his work concludes that ordinary Muslims want democracy and freedom, and that when they turn to radical Islam, it is usually because they feel as though their dictatorial (and often US-backed)governments have failed them.
From Tessler’s Website:
“Political Attitude Research in the Arab World: Emerging Opportunities” (coauthor). PS: Political Science & Politics 39 (July 2006). (http://polisci.lsa.umich.edu/documents/TesslerJamal.pdf) “What Leads Some Ordinary Men and Women in Arab Countries to Approve of Terrorist Acts against the West: Evidence from Survey Research in Algeria and Jordan” (coauthor). Journal of Conflict Resolution (April 2007): 305-328. (http://polisci.lsa.umich.edu/documents/TesslerRobbins.pdf)“Political Culture in Turkey: Connections Among Attitudes Toward Democracy, the Military, and Islam” (coauthor). Democratization 11 (March 2004): 22-51. (http://polisci.lsa.umich.edu/documents/111dem02.pdf)
“Arab and Muslim Political Attitudes: Stereotypes and Evidence from Survey Research.” International Studies Perspectives 4 (May 2003): 175-180; also in Items & Issues, Social Science Research Council. (http://polisci.lsa.umich.edu/documents/tesslerISPArticle.pdf)
“Islam and Democracy in the Middle East: The Impact of Religious Orientations on Attitudes Toward Democracy in Four Arab Countries.” Comparative Politics 34 (April 2002): 337-354. (http://polisci.lsa.umich.edu/documents/tesslerCPArticle.pdf) “The Political Economy of Attitudes Toward Peace Among Palestinians and Israelis” (coauthor). Journal of Conflict Resolution (March 2002): 260-285. (http://polisci.lsa.umich.edu/documents/PolEconofAttitudes.pdf)IP hash: 31109cc1
“The Holy Qu’ran, for those who don’t know, has been preserved in its original form since revelation. That was one of the many things that drew me (American as you can get) to Islam.”
HAHA! That is a pile of poop. In no way shape or form has the Koran been “preserved in its original form!” LOL! That’s an impossibility! I see that convert Sorenson is just as deluded as the rest of the Brainwashed Billion.
In addition, “allah” is not God. Jesus is God. The mass-murder commands of allah and the peace/love teachings of Jesus are DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED. Hello! A second-grader could determine that, Deluded Sorenson. Also, if you’d bother to read the Qur’an, Sorenson, you’d see quite clearly that “allah” has NOTHING whatsoever to do with “peace.” Allah is all about War and Mass-Murder and World Hegemony. “allah” is not God - allah is a pagan idol that doesn’t exist. You’re worshipping a sandstone idol, the moon god of pre-Islamic lore.
And right - there is no difference whatsoever between Islam and “radical Islam” as ignorant (hasn’t even read the Koran!) Sonneman asserts.
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“I guess the only people who truly know Islam are self-righteous Christians, amiright?” —posted way above
No, ANYONE who reads the Koran can “truly know” about Islam. Unlike you, a PC MoonBat Leftist who hasn’t bothered his intellectually-lazy self to actually open a Koran. Do you have a brain, and can you read? Then, open a Koran and read it, stupid.
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JACLYN SORENSON (October 17, 2008 @ 9:00am):
“I used to teach Bible study for many years, and there were many verses in the Bible that could come across as quite violent”…
Oh boy, the tu quoque argument, straight out of the Muslim playbook preface.
Jaclyn was bragging about the Qur’an’s preservation as the actual and unaltered word of God. On the contrary, The testaments of the Bible are interpreted and written by the hands of man. There are variations on the specifics of the Bible, easily shown by the varying Gospels.
That no Christian sect preaches a subjugation of other faiths, with the permanent scorn for disbelievers, (everyone else besides Muslims), that is belied in the Qur’an, is always lost on the islamic apologist.
Couple that with the proclamation that the Qur’an is immutable and Islamic supremacy through Jihad warfare is more than likely to continue ad infinitum.
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@jocelyn
‘Check out Sofia Baig….she has a nice spoken poem called “The Jihad Within.”’
Also checkout the poetry of Samina Malik on the joys of beheading kuffar for Allah.
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Dualism presents a no-lose argument for Muslims. By telling us the nice things we would prefer Islam to be, @jacelyn is only doing what dualists do best, accept that as he has western philosophical roots she is unable to take on board the violent side of the Koran.
Or maybe she hasn’t got to those bits yet as they come later on than the quotes he is currently using.
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Again, I’ll address my comments to the disrespectful Anonymous, this time with an account.
Anonymous, First off, would you mind making an account? You do seem to post a lot and it’d be nice to know who we’re addressing.
Second, this is not an “us vs them” situation. In Judiasm, Allah is referred to as “Adonai” or Hashem and written in the Hebrew alphabet as YHWH. In Christianity, you have a trinity system, but it was still Allah (God) who made Jesus possible through immaculate conception with Mary. In Islam, we are back to the one God, Allah the sacred and the mighty (shortened to SWT or subhana wa ta’ala). It is all one God who has created the signs and in fact, many of our signs are the signs of the Christians and the Jews.
Third, I will agree that those who read the Qur’an can have some knowledge of it, but it is not a simple text. The exegesis is extremely important, as is true understanding. Even which commentary you will read will have a difference on your insight, as in some, the author of the commentary have inserted their opinions instead of staying neutral. This is why it is best undertaken in Arabic or with a Scholar who has undergone intense study of Islam (and even then, you must check your facts).
Fourth, to whichever Anonymous it was speaking about, among other things, Islam being about Nazism or being the only book with such things, I’d like to hear your feedback on Deuteronomy 20 and/or the concept of enslaving and having separate treatment of certain tribes in the Old Testament. Please keep it respectful. Also, if anyone WOULD like a free translation of the Qur’an, please feel free to contact any of the mosques in Madison to receive one.
Fifth, calling people apologists is a cop out. If you don’t respect our opinions, by all means, tell us that outright. If you have issues with moderate Muslims who either will not stoop to insulting your faith the way you insult ours (see the “moon god” at 5:56pm and “mohammedans” at 5:50pm) or who believe in moderation with faith, but still a life with faith, then that should be addressed as well. Our jihad (struggle) is with ourselves. Where’s yours?
Disclaimer: I represent myself. I do not speak for all Muslims, all converts, all Wisconsin Muslims, etc. If you would like the widespread opinions, I would suggest consulting the Gallup poll.
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The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “The best (Jihad) is (to speak) a word of truth to an oppressive ruler.” - Sunan of Abu-Dawood, Hadith 2040
For more on Jihad, this was a pretty good article with Hadith. http://www.mediamonitors.net/ahmedmotiar1.html
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To the “Anonymous” Mohammedan at 2PM: I do use “Mohammedan” and so do many people. Strange that you feel “degraded” as he is your “perfect” man. I couldn’t care less whether you feel “degraded” by the word “Mohammedan.” Deal with it.
Yes, I know plenty about Islam. I know that Islam says to kill me, as I’m an “Infidel.” I know that “allah” your pagan moon god calls “Unbelievers” “the vilest of creatures” and “cursed by allah.” And many other horrible verses about all peoples not Islamic.
So, you can take your genocidal “religion” and shove it. It sucks, Mohammedan.
Say, since you’re a Mohammedan, why don’t you live in an Islamic country? Not good enough for you? Apparently, since you chose to reside in an “Infidel” country. Hypocrite.
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It is interesting that the Badger Herald staff would approve and put up anonymous@2:05’s post but did not approve my post (posted in the evening of Oct 17), which was similar in content and length. I’d love to see their explanation for how anonymous@2:05’s post was approved but mine was not.
Let’s try again, only briefer and without links, regarding polls on Muslims’ opinions:
Study 1.
“Living Apart Together: British Muslims and the Paradox of Multiculturalism.”
Authors: Munira Mirza, Abi Senthilkumaran, and Zein Ja’far
p. 47. (see table) 31% of British Muslims agree that the penalty for apostasy should be death
Study 2.
“Many British Muslims Put Islam First NRO: Survey Shows Many Are More Loyal To Fellow Muslims Outside U.K.” Aug. 14, 2006 Patrick Basham, CBS News
“Seventy-eight percent support punishment for the people who earlier this year published cartoons featuring the Prophet Mohammed. Sixty-eight percent support the arrest and prosecution of those British people who “insult Islam.” When asked if free speech should be protected, even if it offends religious groups, 62 percent of British Muslims say No, it should not.”
Study 3.
Source: “Muslim Public Opinion on US Policy, Attacks on Civilians and al Qaeda.” April 24, 2007. WorldPublicOpinion.org.
p. 21. “Most respondents express strong support for expanding the role of Islam in their societies, a view that is consistent with the goals of al Qaeda. Large majorities in most countries—an average of 71 percent (39% strongly)—agree with the goal of requiring ‘strict application of Shari’a law in every Islamic country.’ Pakistanis were the most enthusiastic with 79 percent agreeing. About three in four Moroccans (76%) and Egyptians (74%) also agreed. Indonesians showed the lowest support: 53 percent agreed and 40 percent disagreed.”
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Anonymous @ 9:39 PM, I say that you are being degrading as it relates to your words and how it reflects on you as a human being. If you’re incapable of having polite discourse and speaking to others as equals, that shows more on you than it ever will on us. If you’re incapable of being a tolerant, decent human being, I feel sorry for you more than anything else.
If you’ve read the Qur’an, you’d know how inaccurate your statement regarding the “moon god” is. I would encourage you to read 53:19-20 for the explanation. As we’ve already gone through, in much of Islam, if we are not being attacked, we are not to attack. Please see Jaclyn’s posts for more details.
As for being here, I was born and raised in Wisconsin to an interfaith Judeochristian family that has been established in the US for at least 2 but as many as 7 generations (dependent on the antecedent). I also have a firm belief in interfaith dialogue and that cannot be conducted without diversity.
As for the next anonymous, I too find it interesting what is being put through and what is not. Also, the Gallup poll (which I’ve been trumping for a while) is an amazing source. http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/world/2008/03/14/inside-the-minds-of-muslims+.html
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“Seventy-eight percent support punishment for the people who earlier this year published cartoons featuring the Prophet Mohammed. Sixty-eight percent support the arrest and prosecution of those British people who “insult Islam.” When asked if free speech should be protected, even if it offends religious groups, 62 percent of British Muslims say No, it should not.” —posted above about Muslims in Britain
Bravo Danish Cartoonists!
Insult Mohamet! (false prophet mass-murderer of Jews and Christians Warlord)
Insult Islam! (a genocidal political ideology like Naziism in the guise of a “religion”)
Bravo FREEDOM OF SPEECH! Islam has no free speech - only civilized countries have free speech. Don’t let the Barbarian Mohammedans take over Britain! Stop them now! Deport, and cease all further Mohammedan immigration! Do it now, Britain, before it’s too late!