Right ON! I think another, more public, petition letter would probably help to. I loved the travel center, it was one of the best parts of the union. They take away the travel center, the University square movie theater, and hike up tuition, WHERE WILL IT END!

though i agree with you that this sucks, you gotta organize! if you want change or even input you have to fight for it. the union directors aren’t going to ask you how you feel. you have to tell them! organize all the employees and maybe you’ll see a difference.

While SLAC had nothing to do with this email, we appreciate the plug. Ultimately, student workers need to organize themselves, if they choose to do so, but we can provide advice, contacts, resources, and try to help in any way we are asked. Student workers (or anyone else for that matter) can contact SLAC with any concerns or questions at slac[at]studentorg.wisc.edu or studentlaboractioncoalition[at]gmail.com, or come to a meeting Thursdays @ 7pm, TITU.

• John Bruning, SLAC

$192 per student per year for 30 years for the Union construction projects. 1,600+ students voted yes, which was enough to pass a referendum after it failed twice.

No scrutiny by students, no student oversight of the project. No clear understanding that most of that money is for tearing down and rebuilding Union South, very little goes to bringing Mem Union up to code (which is the leverage they used to pass it).

After raising $1.3 billion from donors for various UW projects they couldn’t get alums to pitch in for the Union?

This is a shady bunch and it starts with Guthier — he doesn’t believe students have the guts or commitment to stop his reign of terror. Is he right?

The union only gives a damn about students to the extent that they can be suckered out of more money.

11:24am: Actually most of the money that the Union will be spending IS on Memorial Union. Whether it be getting the building up to code, repairing parts of the building still damaged from the flood on ‘06 or remodeling the historic architecture.

To 11:24am - I regret to inform you that your claim of “No scrutiny by students, no student oversight of the project” is sadly mistaken. If you would take the time to be involved in the multitude of building project conferences, focus groups, or “tuesday after class” discussions with the architects and Union staff, rather than making bold claims against an organization that is working very hard to bring you the best new building it can - we’d all really appreciate it.

Furthermore, asking alumni for donations, and not having the building be student funded would totally ruin historical, and practical value of the Union organization. Our Union is what it is today because of the generosity and care students over many generations have put into making it that way.

Be educated in your claims before you make them so boldly.

Hey 3:42! Read what I said — very little of that money goes to bringing Memorial Union up to code — which was the leverage used to get the referendum passed (on the third try) — oh, gosh they are going to tear down our beloved Union! It will be condemned!

They are doing a lot to Memorial Union over and above bringing it up to code. The biggest single item is the demolition and rebuilding of Union South. So people will have a nicer building to under-utilize.

I wonder how much of my seg fees went to WUD and Union management trolling these boards.

Wow, I submitted one of these once and it never got published, here here!

where do the 500 employees come from? does that include union south as well?

Yes, the 500 employees come include those at both Memorial Union and Union South.

“Furthermore, asking alumni for donations, and not having the building be student funded would totally ruin historical, and practical value of the Union organization. Our Union is what it is today because of the generosity and care students over many generations have put into making it that way”

Well…this generation is paying a lot more for everything…they can do something in gratitude…like PAYYNG A LITTLE MORE THAN AROUND $7 AN HOUR! Way to go Jesse!…ask even supervisors about their trust in the Union Council….answers range from a PSSSSS to a YEAH RIGHT!…the student issues get buried over their numerous fancy dinners…

4:41pm, (I wonder how much of my seg fees went to WUD and Union management trolling these boards.) I’ll have you know that the Union, in addition to breeding people who are conscientious about their work environment, and have enough guts to say so, also fosters student employees who pour their heart and soul into the making the Union a better place for YOU. My participation on this message board is on MY OWN account, and is motivated by my OWN love for this place, and the community it creates. To suggest anything else is an insult to the time,effort and love I have put into my own employment at the Union.

Posting anonymous comments does little good for general campus discourse and gives people a chance to hide behind incorrect statements and unreasonable arguments. If you have feedback about the project, perhaps the better venue is a focus group, “Tuesday’s After Class” session, a Design Advisory Group (DAG), Interactive Blogs, and Intercept Interviews- each of which is being hosted by the Union in order to get students involved in the project. Superficial and inaccurate statements reflect poorly on the campus community and distract the Union from taking the necessary steps to design an effective new building.

Paying attention to the building project is a good thing, and should be done given its reliance on student segregated fees. The union has been working since its inception to solicit student involvement. The circumstances are no different today.

Perhaps we will see you at the next focus group?

-David Christopher, Student Involvement Coordinator for the building project

Luckily, I call it Memorial Union : ).

-Toast

I am an ASM appointee to Union Council. While I have not thus far been contacted by anyone about any concerns relating to the institution’s management, I would be glad to listen to the concerns of students or the general public. My email is dcornelius@wisc.edu.

I’d also like to give a further plug for Tuesdays After Class, which is an excellent forum to hear more about the building project and ways to get more involved. We will be set up (with free food and beverages) in Union South from 3:00-5:00 every Tuesday afternoon with the exception of spring break. Hope to see some of you there.

• Dan Cornelius

“Furthermore, asking alumni for donations, and not having the building be student funded would totally ruin historical, and practical value of the Union organization. Our Union is what it is today because of the generosity and care students over many generations have put into making it that way.”

How convenient for you — if you are trying to compare the amount the students raised to get the Mem Union built in the 1920s to the ridiculous imposition of $192 per student per year for 30 years on the basis of 1600+ ‘yes’ votes on the third try at passing a referendum um,,, then you have serious problems. Asking alumni to pitch in for most of the cost would have been the right thing to do but then it would have taken more effort, eh?

Inviting to a meeting as to how you are going to arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic is a laugh. Nice try, though. And I say that boldly. You have successfully counted on the fact that most students on campus now don’t know they got screwed by 1600+ voters from the generation before (and let’s not forget that you promised over half of them that they would only have to pay none or half what future students would pay).

Again, I say Bah!

These comments came the day after the Union initiative finally passed…

“If at first you don’t succeed, whine a little, then buy off the vote.”

“Yes, what a legacy! Making UW even more unaffordable for working class students is a wonderful idea!”

“To paint the Union ‘Inishitive’ as progressive is an obscenity. Charging voter difficulties twice in a row after it lost, and then campaigning the hell out of it and brainwashing students into extending an already overextended college loan account to win a third time seems unprogressive to me.”

“How much did the union spend to buy off the election?

How much were the: * PR firm hired to spin the plan * free green and orange tshirts * free pizza parties to push the initiative * thousands and thousands of fliers * electric bill for showing that lame (pro-initiative) video in the Union main floor 24/7 for two weeks straight * newspaper ads”

“you keep telling us how student groups donated to the union fifty years ago. how much did hoofers donate?”

The way I see it (as a 30 something UW employee who patronizes the Union all the time), it looks very much like a few less experienced employees are feeling VERY entitled to much that they would NOT be entitled to in the real working world.

If you were in the private sector and acted like your employer owed you everything, then you might make some waves, but you’d be out of a job!

Trust me, the way to make changes are from working positively within an organization, and not trying to lob a bombshell negative media blitz campaigns or negative petitions against them. And you are surprised they don’t trust you or treat you with respect?

You all need a lot of growing if you’re going to make it in the “real” world.

“If you were in the private sector and acted like your employer owed you everything, then you might make some waves, but you’d be out of a job!”

Well the truth is this isn’t the private sector. It’s the student union and it’s supposed to be by the students, for the students.

“Trust me, the way to make changes are from working positively within an organization, and not trying to lob a bombshell negative media blitz campaigns or negative petitions against them. And you are surprised they don’t trust you or treat you with respect?”

Those who want respect give respect. The point of griping about mistreatment at the union is based on the fact that the administration doesn’t respect the very people who run the place and patronize it. This coming from a 26 year old who worked in the private sector for 5 years between high school and college. Part of the reason I decided to go to college was because I didn’t like how corporations treated their employees. And now I see it at the student union where I now work. If you are advocating for allowing the corporatization of the student union then I feel sorry for you.

“Well the truth is this isn’t the private sector. It’s the student union and it’s supposed to be by the students, for the students.”

It’s a JOB… How about you treat it like one… Maybe then, you’ll be treated like that respected employee you talk about.

“Those who want respect give respect.”

My point exactly. Do you think the actions of those who are waging this negative media campaign are going to get respect? The golden rule. Treat others like you’d wish to be treated.

The sad thing is you’re at a disadvantage being the employee and not the boss. That’s the sad story of life my friend. Life aint fair, and you have to work for what you want. It won’t get handed to you simply because you think you deserve it. It’s a job, you’re not the boss. If you want to make decisions like the boss, work hard, move up the chain, get that degree, work some more, after maybe 10 years you might be in a position to dictate what happens…

The point I’ve seen others trying to relate is just that. You’re in no position to demand anything, and most feel younger adults here are acting like they are owed some sort of special treatment. An employer is under no obligation to be super nice to their staff. Experience will show you that the grass ALWAYS appears greener on the other side (but it never is). You left the private sector in search of something better. Do you see that greener grass?

That said, I can’t see the union being abusive. I think this is more a cause of misperceptions and overly high expectations on the part of the employees. and a rallying towards a few that got busted for theft (silly cause imho).

Doing what these students are doing is going to do nothing to further their cause. And as an employer, who’s not any different than any other, I could see the Union’s frustration with their workforce complaining and rallying around a cause (in a way only students can). You simply won’t win there. Choose another cause to champion (the war, political elections, improving the lakes, or maybe child labor in China?).

It seems my point may have been missed. The reason there are so many disgruntled employees at the union right now is because it is our student union. We are members of it and the managers and administrators who run it are creating a non friendly environment for the students as well as the employees.

The grass is not always greener. Working at Der Rathskeller was the best job I ever had and may possibly be the best job I will ever have had. Things changed after the corporate house cleaning, which resulted from the witch hunt for the Rath employees who were arrested for false charges without enough evidence to prosecute let alone convict.

Jake, I don’t even know what to say…

But I’ll try :)

Are you friggin kidding me???? Your first paragraph was well written and explains a valid argument. Your second paragraph is as close to cluelessness as I’ve seen here.

OF COURSE working at the rath was the best job ever… You could give away free beer to all your buds (bet you were popular), and some of you tapped the till… Nice way to pick up a few extra bucks. I bet you were all just one big happy family.

A WITCH HUNT? FALSE CHARGES? Um, two of them CONFESSED, and one even had stolen money ON him…

Um, brainiac, they were already charged (prosecuted), but whether they get convicted has yet to be seen. However, with “confessions” it doesn’t take rocket science to figure out how those will end up. Like some other post said, there’s no way the police here in town would spend months investigating this situation and make charges if they were “false” or lacked evidence.

Keep living in your dream world. Though it makes me worried for our future, it makes me feel slightly more “normal” in comparisson… Like watching freaks on episodes of Jerry Springer.

People should be careful about attacking Jake based on things they read in the paper. The paper is not always 100% accurate. I have read the paper and the police report, and have talked to at least one of the individuals who supposedly confessed. All he confessed to was giving away some free beer (which was allowed by his night manager). He said giving away beer was part of the culture…..not skimming the till. Quotes from the report were conveniently placed within the article to make it sound like skimming the till was the common culture rather than the giving away of beer.

I do not know what Lisner admitted to, but I do know that from the report it sounds more like he admitted to taking tips. Tips are not allowed by the state, but once again, they were allowed by the management. When he said he took home $150 on a good night, that most likely meant true tips. Tips customers left for the employee, not skimmed tips. To go along with that, who wants to take home that kind of cash in singles? Not too many people. At most tipping establishments, you trade out for larger bills. That is most likely how the marked bill got in his pocket.

I’m not trying to argue that giving away free beer is alright, but I am terribly worried that people are getting the wrong idea about what happened based on the way the article was written. To the best of my knowledge (and I spent a lot of time there), only free beer went out. In the past several years there were two employees that got caught skimming the till and their fellow employees turned them in. They were fired. That was never allowed to be a common culture.

Once again, I will say that I know it was not ok for that free beer to go out, but imagine this…..you’re 20 years old, start a college job where everyone is getting a free beer at the end of the shift, the supervisors say it’s ok, the night manager says it’s ok, and no one has ever told you it’s not to be done. You also actually see your supervisors and night manager get their own free beers at the end of the shift. Can you honestly say that when your fellow employee came to you for that drink that you wouldn’t give it to them? I would bet no. In fact, I would bet that only 1 in 100 would say no. You can say you think I’m insane with that estimate, but in the years I worked there, (and I worked there long enough to work with more than 100 different employees) never once did I hear anyone refuse a fellow employee. So please be careful about how you judge these kids.

7:06 I don’t know Jake, so I’m not going to attack him, but I’m pretty sure you don’t have all your facts straight.

If you truely read the police reports (or criminal complaints, which are public records), then you probably know the facts. Unfortunately, your not being forthright about what was written in them. I believe it was very specific to their level of involvement and confessions… and not simply about tips or free beer. Please report honestly. If you haven’t read the criminal complaints, then don’t say you have.

I can’t fault you for wanting the best for your friends, but maybe the best thing for them is to realize there are consequences for their actions.

If people (who were dishonest and stealing) are lying to you about their level of involvement, then that’s on them. However, I wouldn’t report what they say, anymore than I’d believe everything I read in the papers. (criminals are rarely 100% honest about their guilt).

I worked at the union for over 4 years. Our night manager drank free beer! He knew we all drank free beer! This was the norm for over 20 years. While working 12-16 hour shifts every single friday and saturday, making a mere $7.30 an hour, we were not given a single incentive, we were not allowed to enjoy a single free thing with no breaks given to supervisors. Taking free beer was our way to reward ourself and give ourselves something back for all of the ridiculous hours and time spent making money for the union so that they could pay the 4th floor snobs six figures, who would treat every worker at the Rathskeller like trash while ordering their grilled cheeses with 15 free toppings and using 24 oz coffee mugs and being charged for a 12 oz coffee. If I would have seen one single 4th floor employee say hi to me or treat me like a co-worker then maybe I would have respected the place a little more, but we were treated no better than a bum on state street. We made over $3 million in 2006 for the union, the only profitable sector of that place. Still between the end of 2006 until the beginning of 2008, not a single employee saw a raise. Why work so hard and respect the rules? On a good night, we could serve close to 100 barrels of beer. After work employees would enjoy a few beers, probably 1/4-1/2 a barrel of beer. This beer we drank was comparable to the spillage on these nights. Stealing beer is not the issue here, its the disrespect and lack of personal communication with front line workers and then not being able to understand why? As someone who studies management and knows how to increase productivity and workplace efficiency, it starts at the top and goes all the way to the bottom.

As far as the allegations against the theft of employees, the cops and management used a NO SALE button to figure out how many times they stole money. This no sale button could be hit for hundreds of reasons, to name a few: customer needs change, coworker needs change, you forget to give change, you place a bill in the wrong spot, a supervisor is asking workers if anyone needs change, you need to break a roll of quarters, you need make change with your tips. NONE OF WHICH IS STEALING! This “evidence” is not evidence at all, its a mere misinterpretation of how one works the outdated cash registers. As for the marked bill, i agree with the post earlier, no one would leave that place with $150 in singles, we all cashed out tips for bigger bills. I know each person who was convicted personally and I KNOW that most of them DID NOT STEAL MONEY they simply gave out free beer like the 400 employees prior to them did. They worked more hours than any other employees and hit the no sale button for any of the various reasons a few too many times. Stealing money from the till was not a culture and it was not permitted. Every one of the newspaper articles I have seen have had many flaws and misinterpretations in them. The average person keeping up with these issues through them has no clue what is true and has been misled to believe that Rathskeller employees were just stealing money and becoming popular by giving out free beer.

Everyone on here that is replying and telling Jake that he is crazy has no clue what they are talking about. You did not work at the Rathskeller and obviously do not know anyone who does because it would take only a few minutes of conversation for you to realize where we are coming from. We are being punished for a tradition started in the 70’s, back when the Union used to be a great place for students.

-Ian Behm

Adam Lisner pled guilty to Misd. Theft on June 25. Dan Ursin and Anthony Moore pled guilty to Misd Theft on June 5th.