OPINION & EDITORIAL
Immigration debate truly cultural, not economic
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Also by Andrew Wagner:
- Free speech should not protect bigoted Baptists (November 30, 2007)
- Immigration debate truly cultural, not economic (November 16, 2007)
- Pakistan nears extremism (November 9, 2007)
- ASM grocery store deserves chance (November 2, 2007)
- Party identifiers cloud judgment (October 26, 2007)
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- 'Immigration rights' demonstrators lack credible message (April 13, 2006)
- Illegal immigration can aid Dems (November 3, 2006)
- Scapegoating immigrants (April 15, 2005)
- The key word is 'illegal' (December 4, 2003)
- Political debates lacking in debate (October 25, 2006)
by Andrew Wagner
Friday, November 16, 2007
The role of immigrants in American society has been a major issue in the United States since the early 18th century. Over this time period and to the present day, the same basic economic and social questions move in and out of the debate. Will immigrants depress wages? Commit crimes? Spread diseases? Take jobs? The answers to these questions vary, some positive and some negative.
The consensus in America as I see it today generally is that legal immigration is a positive thing. After all, legal immigration focuses on letting in the best and the brightest from the outside world. Thus, the main point of contention revolves around what to do about illegal immigrants, specifically the millions who have come over the southern border from Mexico and other Latin American countries.
The economic studies concerning illegal immigrants suggest they don't greatly hurt the economy and may even help it. They generally don't compete for middle-class jobs, but mostly for lower-class positions. Oddly enough, they are most often found in the exact same jobs that newly arrived legal immigrants from earlier years fulfilled: temporary agricultural work and low-paying manual labor.
While certain absolute numbers concerning how much it costs to educate and provide health care for illegal immigrants are large, immigrants provide goods and services to the entire country at lower prices than would otherwise be possible. As an impact on the economy as a whole, the effects of illegal immigration are minimal. Given this evidence, is there a deeper driving force behind the debate?
In my own personal experience, the issue of illegal immigration has far more to do with socio-cultural issues than it ever has with economics. In my hometown of Green Bay, Wis., I went to an elementary and middle school with hardly any minority students at all. However, beginning in high school, Green Bay experienced a large influx of Hispanics. In the course of a few years, my high school and hometown underwent a dramatic demographic change.
It's quite possible that a large percentage of the Hispanic students were the children of illegal immigrants. Many of the Hispanic students in the school did not speak English very well or at all. A sort of mutual nonrecognition existed, with most white students not mixing with Hispanics or African-Americans and vice-versa.
The influx of a different race in Green Bay created a "culture clash" between the white citizens and Hispanic immigrants. The county board passed a resolution to make English the official language. Letters to the editors of the local papers complained of the increasing incidence of hearing Spanish around town and worried that Hispanics were "destroying one of the most unifying aspects of our American society."
For every Hispanic parade or news item, there were that many more mutterings about how our "good American society" was being undermined and turned into just another part of Mexico. As I have no reason to believe that Green Bay is a unique case in regard to the immigration discussion, I'm sure that the exact same debate has gone on elsewhere as well and most college students are familiar with it.
The most common counterargument to anti-immigration talk is that the United States has always been a country of immigrants, a grand "melting pot" of which citizens should feel proud. Personally — although it is hard to compare anti-immigrant sentiment over the years — I feel the climate surrounding immigration today is much more civil than in 19th and early 20th centuries. Yet I have a feeling that a more vigorous debate could well arise over the issue of immigration because of its intrinsic link to race and the larger demographic transformation of the United States.
In the past, immigrants from Europe were eventually absorbed into the native white population, a process made much easier because they were actually white themselves. However, the vast majority of recent illegal immigrants are not white. The consensus among demographers is that non-Hispanic whites will no longer be the majority of the population sometime before 2050. The burgeoning proportion of Hispanics in the United States population is largely responsible for this demographic shift, and illegal immigration over the southern border has been one of the driving forces of the change.
In the illegal immigration debate, the anti-immigration faction can best be described as afraid of this process. This shift in demographic composition will almost certainly result in a transfer of political power away from the traditionally dominant white majority. Given how minorities have often been unreservedly disadvantaged throughout American history, it's no surprise white Americans fear the idea of no longer being the majority (although they will still be the largest racial group).
Furthermore, the track record of multiracial and multiethnic societies hasn't exactly been the greatest. A common worry among immigration foes is the "Balkanization" of the United States. The term "Balkanization" refers to the splitting up of the Balkan Peninsula in Europe into many different smaller countries based largely along ethnic lines.
Some immigration foes fear a de facto split of the country into ethnic areas: a Hispanic Southwest, or on a smaller scale within states and cities where the people no longer have an allegiance to the country as a whole. In their eyes, this is a particular problem with illegal immigrants, as they cannot easily integrate into a new society.
There is no easy solution to the immigration debate. Illegal immigration will continue to a large extent, regardless of the amount of expensive enforcement put in place on the borders. However, simply letting everyone into the United States who wants in does not seem to be feasible, especially with the unresolved problems surrounding integrating immigrants into society.
Rather than having immigration advocates blindly yelling, they need to tailor their efforts to address the issues I've outlined above. Solving it will require cooperation from all the sectors of society and a refocusing of the debate from the economic implications to the social ones. Fear of the "other" is never easy to overcome. The effort won't be easy or short, but faced with a reality that will not disappear, the issue must be resolved.
Andrew Wagner (awagner@badgerherald.com) is a junior majoring in computer science and political science.
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 5:11am):
My boy, please don't call those who want people to come to this country legally anti-immigration. We love immigrants, as long as they come here legally. Immigration is a great thing (my wife is an immigrant) as long as they come here legally. Please, stop trying to confuse the issue!
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 8:54am):
" Illegal immigration will continue to a large extent, regardless of the amount of expensive enforcement put in place on the borders."
This is wrong. Crime CAN be prevented. Concertina wire is not that expensive. We could bring the troops home from Germany, Japan and Korea to protect our own borders instead of somebody else's border.
How about we eliminate the income tax* and go back to funding the federal government with import duties? The system required to secure the border to prevent smuggling goods without paying customs duties would also serve to prevent illegal entry.
*If you tax something you get less of it, so why do we tax income?
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 9:14am):
When we threw out the notion of the melting pot and assimilation, we threw away what had made the United States the country that we once were.
It may not be too late, but we would have to close the borders, enforce the laws, throw out "diversity" for our melting pot concept and a recognition that being an American has a meaning, and that you can study what that means and learn how to become one. One part of that is making it clear that the language of the United States is English, and if you do not care to learn it, you have no part in the American political process: we will not cater to your demands for ballots in Hmong or Spanish or Norman French. Another part of that is passing the equal protection section of the 14th Amendment again, exactly as it was written, but adding the words "And this time we mean it!"
What you call synthesis is what we used to call assimilation; and for 200 years it worked. We gave it up, and we sow the wind.
http://www.jerrypournelle.com/mail/mail492.html#Thursday
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 10:09am):
If you want to be surrounded by walls and live in a homogenous society, move to North Korea. America is free and open to all-- don't like it? Leave.
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 10:09am):
8:54am. You make an important point about the income tax. It is because of inflation that we have an illegal immigration problem in the first place. Without inflation, we'd actually be welcoming more immigrants legally.
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 10:31am):
10:09am, you are so ignorant! It's not our fault that the rest of the world sucks. Why don't you tell them to fix their own countries instead of risking their lives to sneak into the US? If national security means living within wall, then fine, I'll take my walls, but don't come on with this "If you don't like it, leave" crap! Christ, I can remember when Republicans used that line during the Cold War!
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 10:45am):
"America is free and open to all"
When can I move into your house?
Margaret Browne (November 16, 2007 @ 11:08am):
Sorry, illegal immigation is an economic diaster. I don't know where this writer is getting his info, but it is contrary to all the sources I have read.
Paul Samuelson, the economist, has pointed out that we must select our immigrations, and take the best and the brighest. They add more to the economy than they take out. Then we can afford to have some low skilled immigrations who are a net loss and will need to be carried for at least a generation.
The latest study on education rates shows that while most low skilled legal immigrants by the second generation are obtaining HS diplomas and more, the Mexicans immigrants are taking 4 generations to reach the HS diploma level. From my own pesonnal observations, I do not believe the Mexican-American immigrant culture places much value on education, it is not the ability of the students, they can do it like everyone else.
Also, an analysis of the cost per illegal has found that after adding in all their value to the economy, we are paying an additional 22, 600 per illegal in subsidizies.
This follows what Paul Samuelson said about low skilled workers being a net drain on the economy. I also read recently that economists are starting to point out to Congress that if there is an amnesty, who is going to pay for it? It could well bankrupt our country.
You take 20 million low skill illegals, each brings in 5 family members, that is 100 million new citizens who have not paid into the SS pool at all, or not paid in enough. We are only 300 million Americans. Kiss SS good bye. Kiss all benefits goodbye. Kiss all improvement to infrastructure (and ours is crumbling) goodbye. Kiss America goodbye.
Mexico has indicated that it considers America has no borders and that it citizens are entitled to live and work any where in the USA. Can you imagine what will happen with 100,000 Latino immigrants?
Have your checked out La Raza/MECHa, the Hispanci Groups supporting Hillary and the othe Democrats? A former head of each group are campaign managers for Hillary.
"MEChA's founding principles state: "In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal gringo invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny...
Aztlan belongs to those who plant the seeds, water the fields, and gather the crops and no to the foreign Europeans...
"For La Raza to do. Fuera de la Raza nada."
That closing two-sentence motto is chilling to everyone who values equal rights for all. It says:
"For The Race everything. Outside The Race, nothing."
These words don't come from a fringe radical element. These come straight from the official MEChA sites at Georgetown University, the University of Texas, UCLA, University of Michigan, University of Oregon, and many other colleges and universities around the country.
Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, founder of La Raza Unida Party, Director of "Movimiento Latino USA de Los Angeles", has proudly said:"We have an aging white America.... They are dying.... They are **** in their pants with fear! I love it!" He then demands:"We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him." "
BILL RICHARDSON, former U.S. Congressman, U.N. Ambassador, U.S. Secretary of Energy, and currently Governor of New Mexico and Presidential candidate is against building the US/Mexico border barrier, is for giving amnesty to undocumented Mexican workers and recently met with the new president of Mexico, Felipe Calderon, to discuss issues of mutual concern.
"Even if he does not win, he will be in great position to negotiate with the victorious nominee, whether it be BARAK OBAMA, HILLARY CLINTON or one of the many other Democratic candidates."
Audio clips of the true agenda of Illegal Alien Lobby and the agendas of MEChA, LA RAZA, MALDEF, and Southwest Voter Registration Projects:
http://www.theamericanresistance.com/race_ind...
The following organizations have been found to contribute to the National Council of La Raza ("The Race").
http://www.theamericanresistance.com/race_ind...
........................................
And in this article, the writer indicates that illegals are not taking jobs. Wrong. Two recent surveys show that when illegals move in, wages drop, Americans get kicked out their jobs so employers can hire the cheaper illegals. On suvery from 1988 to 2006, showed that the displacement of Americans is 44%.
But the anti rule of law, anti legal immigrant, pro illegal supporters always say Americans won't do the job that illegals do. Wrong again. Tyson and Swift plants showed that. And a study just came out from the University of Davis saying there is no shortage of farm labor, but that farmers want more personnel, they will have to raise wages.
What famers want is below minimum wage illegal labor, which is subsidized by the taxpayer. Pure and simple. Dishonest business.
But honest business are now starting to sue the dishonest ones using illegal labor for unafir business practices.
And in the Northwest employees have won a lawsuit, under RICO against their employer for depression of wages because the employer used cheaper illegals. Another suit is pending in S. Carolina.
If our Congress cannot see that our laws are enforce and the illegals deported, it may be that it will be Americans suing in court that forces the changes.
By the way folks, did you know that you are not allowed to check YOUR OWN SSN? Nope. If you want to know if someone is using your SSN, you can do nothing about it until after your credit has been ruined for life, you are stuck with illegals bills, and taxes, and you have lost some of the SS benefits you personnally earned( permanent loss). Why?
Dishonest business does not want you to know. If you did, you would demand that the peson using your identity be arrested and deported. And the politicans are in the pocket of big business.
Lastly, ALL PARENTS. If your kids are around ilegals, get them tested for TB often, more than just once a year. My son had his yearly tests, then due to a job offer had to have a mide year test. Bingo. One year of treatment. He picked up TB from an illegal kid at school. So be warned.
This is really another reason that only legal immigrants should be allowed in. They have to pass a medical.
Besides, what is wrong with legal immigrants?
Americans of all backgrounds want their families and friend to come to American. Buth they are told to wait even longer because illegals, all from basically one area, and who have broken numerous criminal laws, come first.
Frankly I think these amnesties are discriminatory and do not meet the constitutional standard for equality for equal protection under the law.
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 11:29am):
10:09, that is the great thing about this country, if you don't like it YOU CAN LEAVE!! Go any place in the world, illegally, and see what happens to you. In some cases, you may just be sent back home, in others, you may never been seen in the US (or outside a prison) again. In no case will you be allowed to stay illegally, live off the citizens of the country you invaded, even if you did have a job. Frankly, I find it amazing that there are those who wish to reward illegal behavior!
Perhaps we should mandate As for those caught cheating on exams, or reduce insurance rates for those who habitually get into auto accidents. How about a medal for those who dare utter the hated N word, or a harem for those who sexually assualt others. It would solve so many problems if we could just find a way to reward all criminals, rather than just those who illegally venture over the border.
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 12:37pm):
10:09
Try entering Mexico illegally from the south and see if you survive the trip. You'll at least be robbed and beaten, if not killed.
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 2:27pm):
8:54-- that assumes that all illegal immigrants come from Mexico. What about all the Cubans we bribe (you know we spend tax dollars to buy Cubans houses and set them up with businesses, right?), or more importantly, the thousands that simply overstay their visas? The debate has never truly been about tracking immigrants, it's about keeping out and kicking out Mexican and Central American immigrants.
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 2:35pm):
from Los Angeles...I wouldn't call 1 billion - yes, BILLION - dollars a year to Los Angeles county alone as "minimal."
antonovich.co.la.ca.us/newsroom/releases/sep2007/RELEASE%20%20illegals%20WELFARE.htm
That's how much is paid to illegal immigrants in Los Angeles county for welfare benefits, foodstamps and healthcare. And that figure doesn't account for education. In 1935 Federal wefare was created and there lies the difference between immigration of the old and the new. Good try, though.
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 2:36pm):
Margaret, I pray for your soul. First, the "illegals give you TB" is nonsense. It's the equivalent of saying you can get AIDS through tears. Second, I fail to understand how illegal immigration slows down legal immigration? It's not cutting in line, there's simply two lines, often leading to two different places. The exodus into the North Caroina, California and Texas migrant farmworker camps doesn't keep your friends and family from entering this country. And it also begs the question, why do your friends and family have more of a right to enter the country than the friends and family of Mexican-Americans?
Lastly, the "Reconquista" conspiracy theory is nothing more than a 21st century version of the Illuminati or any other "global control" theories. If it's not the Jews, it must be the Mexicans.
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 3:40pm):
Godwin's Immigration Corollary: Anyone who uses the word "Aztlan" as part of an immigration argument loses by default.
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 4:18pm):
Right, so if Mexico and a bunch of other third world shitholes treat illegals like vermin, then America should too! It seems that some of us strive to replicate Sweden and the Netherlands and the others (everyone who has commented above) try to combine Saudi brutality with France's snooty racism.
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 5:30pm):
My concern with the large influx of Hispanic in this country is that they seem to view education as a low priority and they don't seem to have a desire to better themselves. When the increase of the Asian population hit Wisconsin years ago, Hmong parents held a great desire for their children to learn english and for their children to have a better life and become well educated. Hispanics on the other hand don't seem to have this desire. When Christmas break arrives, many Hispanic families go back to visit family in Mexico. Unfortunately, this usually means that their children are out of school for a month, while we are paying for additional teachers and paraprofessionals to teach them how to speak english. These students just get further behind. History has shown that most immigrants came to the USA to better their life and to embrace the USA as their country. Unfortunately, history is not repeating itself.
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 5:30pm):
1031
"It's not our fault that the rest of the world sucks."
Really? Ever heard of a little concept called neoliberalism? Actually, the reason so many immigrants, specifically from Latin America, are coming to the US is because our economic policies, pushed through with programs like NAFTA and CAFTA, destroyed the jobs in their own counties.
Andi Medi (November 16, 2007 @ 6:37pm):
So Margaret thinks that immigrants are diseased, anti-American, un-loyal, uneducated criminals, which is precisely what was said about the Irish and Italians (and slavs and jews and poles, and...).
They made up those arguments then, and they are making them up now. They were wrong then and they are just as wrong now. I think we will look back at this generation of immigrants and their children with great pride and thank them like we thank the immigrants who came 100 years ago and their children for winning World War II.
We will also be ashamed of the anti-immigration voices who spoke with such little care, so few facts, and so much confidence, and of ourselves for not speaking out against them.
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 8:10pm):
Andi et al, we ARE NOT ANTI IMMIGRANT! The clue truck is right outside and you have no idea how to open the door!! We want immigrants to come here legally, that is all, plain and simple! I guess if I think rapists should be put away for life I am anti-sex... at least by the same standards set forth by the "immigration" crowd.
Anonymous (November 16, 2007 @ 11:02pm):
5:30-- you obviously have no understanding of the history of American immigration. my family was here for three generations speaking german at home before my grandfather spoke english natively. there is no exodus of illegal immigrants to mexico in december, with ALL of them coming back and resuming their lives a month later.
Anonymous (November 17, 2007 @ 10:21am):
"We will also be ashamed of the anti-immigration voices"
I hear no anti-immigration voices, ONLY anti-ILLEGAL immigration voices.
Lastly, the "Reconquista" conspiracy is from the mouths of Mexican politicians. The Mexican President has said "Mexico is where ever Mexicans are living". It's an invasion. They don't want to become US citizens, they want to reconquer land Mexico lost in wars or sold to the USA.
Nina Mold (November 17, 2007 @ 11:05am):
I brought my family here legally in early 2004. The only option available was to buy a business, so I am a correctional officer of 20 years who now owns and runs a hair salon!
Our visa is an E2 investor visa which must be renewed in our home country regularly. If we get denied, we could lose everything. Some investors who get denied are allowed back to the U.S. for 90 days to wind up their affairs, others are not allowed back. Our children have no status, cannot have social security numbers so they cannot work and learn the value of money.
We have no path to permanent residence, but several politicians are busting a gut to find a way (DREAM Act) to give the children of illegal immigrants the right to citizenship!! My children had no choice about coming here (like the illegals), but they must leave at age 21, AFTER being educated with tax dollars, DURING their college years and BEFORE they can become the asset to America that they have the potential to be.
Come here legally? It's not as easy as you think. It's high time the half-century old laws pertaining to investment visa were re-visited and revised. America should be welcoming entrepreneurs who create employment, instead we are treated like undesirables. Go figure.
Anonymous (November 17, 2007 @ 3:58pm):
New Zealand won't allow people to immigrate there if they're fat
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article3169647.ece
Anonymous (November 17, 2007 @ 7:56pm):
11:05, I agree, it is amazing that the US government does not make it easier for those with something to contribute (more than cheap labor) to stay in this country legally. As a matter of fact, they make it nearly impossible to do (see the H1 visa program as well). On the other hand, if you come here illegally, there are those in Washington (and Madison) who want to reward them by giving them a reward for breaking the law. Gotta love the way the pro-illegals spit in the face of those who want (or have) to come here legally.
Anonymous (November 18, 2007 @ 11:25pm):
i am not afraid that we won't be the majority i afarid that the border's won't be secure letting in millions of illegal immigrants in turnig the U.S. into scum. i'm afraid that it will lead to the break up of the states just because we can't control illegal immigrants from comming in i don't think so i refuse to watch what my ancestores built be destroyed over illegal immigration. i'm for legal immigration but any one who is illegal better get their ass back across the border cause i can garuntee you that i'm not gona let illegal immigration ruin my home!
Fred (February 8, 2008 @ 12:04pm):
Time to enlarge US Military and deploying on Soiuthern borders (where the problem is), authorize use of deadly force to stop illegal trash from invading US. If the US Government won't enforce existing immigration law. The American answer to the failure of law enforcement is to form committies of vigilance and deal with the problem on a one time basis.
binoculars (April 11, 2008 @ 1:00am):
Hm... generally I agree with you, but I wonder what our readers would tell.
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