Muslim Student Association, are you suggesting there aren’t any problems to be addressed in the Muslim world? Or are you suggesting that we ignore them?

Personally, I don’t care what individual religions do… as long as they don’t bother each other. Palestine and Israel will have to co-exist, Shia and Sunni will have to co-exist, just like Protestants and Catholics will have to co-exist.

We should start putting PEOPLE ahead of our “God communication devices”. I’ve got a Sony, you have a Panasonic, but the conversations are all the same.

“attempted to discredit groups such as MSA by perpetuating the myth that they are funded by Hamas”

Isn’t it the other way around? Doesn’t MSA funds Hamas?

“David Horowitz does not speak for Muslims.”

No, he doesn’t. But the Islamic extremists sure do.

“He also put a significant amount of blame on moderate Muslims for not speaking up.”

Well, the ARE to blame for not speaking up! Whose side are they on anyway.

“…it also assumes that students on the UW campus are incapable of organically conversing about these important topics…”

Organically? Dude, you need to start buying your drugs from a different dealer.

I’m curious, what exactly is your solution for Jews? What do you think is best for them?

MSA - props to you all. You’ve been a class act throughout this ordeal.

Tell me Adam, how many actual Muslims did you have to beat out to become the official spokesperson of the Muslim Students’ Association? Your attempt to use surface academic knowledge to replace our lifetimes of personal experience reeks of cooptation. Instead of desperately trying to identify with (and fetishize) people of a different background (in the same way animephiles do to the Japanese), why not try and represent your own culture and your own background? We don’t need help from anglo-americans to defend ourselves, unless of course you think we are lesser people who can’t function without the white man….

We are suggesting that these issues, contrary to the whole focus of the event, are being addressed by Muslims and the most effective means in which this University can continue to address issues in this world is through outreach and not political division and partisan bickering. It doesn’t help. I am sure college Republicans are full of intelligent people willing to involve themselves with dialogue, it isn’t like their views were (hopefully) fully represented by the speaker. And the issues of oppressed women throughouth the world and terrorism are not partisan specific issues that are somehow ignored by ‘liberal’ America and Muslims.

Can you clarify what you meant by “God communication devices,” I was unclear what you meant.

When will a Christian be able to openly visit Mecca? Will they be able to carry a Bible or wear a crucifix?

Will the death penalty for homosexuality, blasphemy or apostasy ever be resinded in “Muslim majority countries”?

I’m even thinking that cutting off the hands of thieves may be a bit much.

MSA whined: “It goes without saying…”

Well, no it doesn’t.

Does MSA have any evidence to refute Horowitz’s evidentiary indictments? Or do all his detractors rely on sanctimonious gestures to dismiss the damning facts Horowitz presents? http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/31.pdf

Don’t remain ignorant your entire life.

Well-written. Unfortunately it may take many more editorials and events to correct the damage done by Horowitz and his friends.

“damage done by Horowitz”

Damage to what? The “moderate Muslim” fantasy?

No Islamic State has freedom of religion. Bibles are illegal in Saudi Arabia. You could be arrested for holding a Church service. Missionaries are routinely assaulted and killed by Jihadists in Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan, and dozens of other Islamic countries. Young Parochial school girls in Indonesia are beheaded. Over 1000 Churches in Indonesia have been bombed in Islamic attacks. Genocidal warfare is carried out by Islamic soldiers all over Africa. Buddhists in Thailand are randomly shot. Turkish Islamic soldiers killed over a million Armenian Christians after WW1. The Gay lifestyle, and education for women are not accepted in Islamic states. Imams in scores of Mosques in Britain, France, and Germany, have been filmed screaming, “Death to Kuffars!” In case you don’t know it, college students - most of you are Kuffars. Did you know that Islam encourages Muslims to lie to Kuffars? That’s why you are not hearing about these disgusting attacks from Muslims…..finally, Islam is not a race!! It is a religion!! Therefore, to criticize Islam is definitely not racism. This is just another deceitful Islamic tactic to deflect criticism….

Yeah, sure: religion is the way we, corporately and as individually, communicate with God (thus the on-the-fly term “God communication device”).

In my view, the dogmatic rules that each religion follows are Earthly and ultimately devisive to all mankind. Really, if you think about it, does heaven really have a strick “no pork” policy? (your earthly body and all it has consumed stays here)

However, if the dogma of your religion helps you to communicate with God better, then it is useful to you. That does not mean that the rest of the world needs the same dogma to have meaningful conversation with their diety.

My point is: all religions have created (read, man-made) devices to help their followers worship the intangible. We all need to realize this and quit getting bent out of shape about Earthly ideas.

“Tell me Adam, how many actual Muslims did you have to beat out to become the official spokesperson of the Muslim Students’ Association?”

How do you know he’s not Muslim? Because he has a “white” name? You obviously don’t know him, or else you wouldn’t make stupid comments like that.

Do the hostile posters here actually have any Muslim friends? Why or why not? The dialog in this string disgusts me. So many are implying that a group of extremists speak for all individuals of that religion. Please tell me you recognize how stupid and hypocritical that assumption is. Does the Pope speak for all Catholics? Considering the number of practicing Catholics I know who are on birth control and use condoms, I’m thinking no. Maybe that makes them bad Catholics, I don’t claim to be an expert. Do Clarence Thomas and Al Sharpton speak for all black people? They don’t even speak for each other! Does George W Bush speak for all United States citizens? Technically yes, but with an approval rating in the 30s, I’m betting that not a lot of people want to claim him as a spokesperson. If anything, just recognize how ludicrous it is to assume that a small group of individuals speak for everyone in that category.

My hat goes off to MSA. Amidst the harsh criticisms and nonsensical ramblings, you’ve maintained great poise.

And really, before I worry too much about the oppression of women, gays, and religious differences abroad, I will worry about those oppressions here. Freedom of religion in this country is a myth. Female equality is a myth. Non-persecution of gays is a myth. Keep calling the kettle black folks. It adds a lot of credibility to your statements.

2:23….

1) Uhhh when was a missionary last killed in Egypt for being a missionary? If you knew anything about the country you’d recognize that there’s a heavy Coptic Christian population and they are not “outlawed” from practicing or arrested for going to the dozens of churches sprinkled throughout Cairo alone. There’s even multiple synagogues. I would call that freedom of religion. Don’t use your Saudi argument to generalize about the entire region.

2) Please provide documentation on Buddhists being shot and killed in Thailand BY MUSLIMS just for being Buddhists?

3) The Armenian genocide? Are you serious? Today Turkey is the most secular country in the Middle East. Are we going to refer to something that happened 90 years to prove something today? Okay, how about utopian social-darwinism inspiring the Nazis to commit the Holocaust? Or you know what, radical Christians used their religion in donning white hoods and lynching African Americans only 40-50 years ago. Therefore Christianity is a screwed-up religion.

4) The link between Islamophobia and Arab racism is evident. Racial profiling at airports, hello? Would they pull over a white guy with a Qu’ran in his backpack? Probably not. But would they pull over a guy with an Arabic last name who embraces atheism? Probably. Remember it was Horowitz who kept using Iran as an example of a troubled Arab state even though its people are Persian.

5) Most of the most oppressive Islamic policies are present in Saudi Arabia, which you cite. Then why does the U.S. government keep supporting the kingdom? If we are so concerned about radical Islam (which most people will admit is a problem) then why don’t we be “benevolent” like we were in Iraq (allegedly) and install a democratic state for the Saudis? Why aren’t you advocating that?

“MSA - props to you all. You’ve been a class act throughout this ordeal.”

Well said. The hatred and absolute ignorance of Islam I’ve seen on the BH message boards over the past few weeks is absolutely appalling. I really have no idea how some people got into this school if they’re just going to spew hateful false rhetoric.

No, the MSA is not out to get you. Fear them all you want, but personally I’m more scared of the ignorant bigots than I am of any of the Muslims on our campus.

Anonymous at 12:04 PM: There is no real evidence of the MSA being funded by Hamas. Horowitz and his ilk make leaps of logic without any real evidence. While I’m sure their have been MSA presidents in the past who have had questionable motives, it doesn’t change the extremely broad generalizations that Horowitz and his ilk make.

What is without question is that the MSA on this campus has no connections to any terrorist organizations, but of course Horowitz and his ilk pulls out a handful of examples from a handful of universities in the 40+ years of the MSA’s existence.

Also, I’d like to invite everyone who has posted and read these comments, especially those who have been critical of this piece to come to our lecture next week by Jamal Badawi entitled: Jihad, Holy War and Terrorism.

It’s the moderates, not the so-called extremists, who have hijacked Islam. The week should just be called “Islam Awareness Week.” The moderates and apologists for Islam do a pathetic job in explaining and exegeting the Koran. I notice that bin Laden knows the Koran better than the moderates,far out-quoting and out-exegeting them, like the New England Patriots outscoring their opponents.

11:30 and 2:23, why do you think countries should have “freedom of religion?” That’s a revolutionary idea dreamed up by those pesky Americans (then British colonists) a couple hundred years ago.

Anonymous at 5:07, Bin Laden does now know the Quran. He knows how to pervert it for his own agenda. But he himself does not know and understand it.

Because the Quran is in Arabic its easy for him to pervert its meaning foe whatever usage he wants.

“Do the hostile posters here actually have any Muslim friends? Why or why not?”

Hey infidel, try dating a Muslim girl and see who gets murdered first, you or the girl.

Well, the usual Muslim deceptions, distortions, misdirections, untruths, prevarications, and counter attacks prevail. Of course, this is the official Islamic tactic, wherein they deny all of the Islamic worldwide terror. Their response is the usual: “YOU are Racist!” “YOU are prejudiced!” “YOU are ignorant!” They deny 911, they deny the London Bus Bombings, they deny the Spanish train bombings, they deny the hundreds of children killed in Russia in the school raid. The same terror attacks that happened in these countries, are happening in Egypt, where many Churches have been burned down, in Indonesia, in Dafur, in Somalia, in Turkey, in Iran, in Pakistan, in Algeria….the same mind numbing assault on other religions and cultures. There are plenty of web sites where documentation, with pictures, can be found. Everyone who has an open mind, can go there and see what Islam is about…the establishment of a worldwide caliphate, followed by the forced conversion of non-believers, and the enslavement of the remainder. We aren’t buying your propaganda screen anymore, Islam…

9:37pm

Well, I would never date a Muslim girl. Mostly because I’M GAY!

And thanks for the response. It was about as intelligent and well thought out as I could have hoped for. Not to mention, you did a bang up job of actually answering the question.

How does a gay man stand for Islam? The day after Wisconsin passed the same-sex union ban, my devout Muslim friend, who I’ve known since second grade, was one of the first to contact me and tell me how sorry he was the vote went that way. Perhaps he thinks homosexuality is wrong. What mattered in that moment was that he supported me. What matters to you and your myopic world view is that, and get ready for this one: he doesn’t think that I should die because of it. Grow up.

From the University of Southern California Muslim Students Association website:

“Islam is the name of a way of life which the Creator wants us to follow. We avoid the word religion because in many non-Islamic societies, there is a separation of “religion and state.” This separation is not recognized at all in Islam: the Creator is very much concerned with all that we do, including the political, social, economic, and other aspects of our society. Hence, Islam is a complete way of life.”

“Prophet Muhammad (saas) was the final Messenger of Allah to humanity, and therefore the Qur’an is the last Message which Allah has sent to us. Its predecessors such as the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels have all been superceded.”

While Mr. Horowitz does not speak for Muslims, the MSA speaks for many of them.

So remember their words from above when Jamal Badawi presents his personal views on jihad, Holy War, and terrorism next Thursday.

“…finally, Islam is not a race!! It is a religion!!”

Ditto for Jews and Judaism.

11:18am muttered: “Ditto for Jews and Judaism”

No, that equivalence is incorrect for a number of obvious reasons.

Jews are a distinct ethnic group defined by a tribal heritage (like Navahoes). Muslims are not.

Judaism is a religion who’s practice (like Islam) is open to any ethnicity by virtue of conversion.

Conversely, Muslims (unlike Jews) are never free to practice Christianity, Budhism, Hinduism, Animism, Atheism, etc. Strict Muslim apostacy laws forbid Muslims from exercising freedom of conscience.

Tribal Jews are free to follow their conscience (unlike Muslims) without the stigma of “apostacy”; and yet retain their tribal identity.

These are not mere quibbles, but lie at the heart the Muslim false accusations of “racism.”

Safi denied @ 4:54pm “There is no real evidence of the MSA being funded by Hamas.”

LMAO! Safi sounds just like Baghdad Bob. “There are no Americans in Baghdad— none whatsoever!”

So who should readers believe? Safi? or the evidence of their own eyes? http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/31.pdf

The evidence of MSA complicity in terrorism is clear and overwhelming. The unindicted co-conspirators in MSA’s leadership should be preparing for federal indictments to follow the Holy Land Foundation trial.

Meanwhile, people of good-will should definitely distance themselves from the terrorism enablers of MSA.

Safi @ 5:04pm invites: “come to our lecture next week by Jamal Badawi entitled: Jihad, Holy War and Terrorism.”

Will Badawi answer the challenge? Or should his deafening silence be accepted as consent? http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/badawiholywar.htm