OPINION & EDITORIAL
UW making big mistake with quota
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by Hannah Shtein
Tuesday, October 9, 2007
I'm not going to lie; the main reason I decided to join a sorority is so I could finally start meeting people from out of state. Hold the judgment, please — I'm from Wisconsin, too. However, I wanted my college experience not to be a repeat of high school, and preparing for "the real world" is supposed to entail exposure to backgrounds different from your own — whether they are opinion-related, racial, geographic or whatever. So why does this school feel like it's composed almost exclusively of Wisconsinites?
With a requirement of 75 percent in-state enrollment — which includes Minnesota residents — the view of the Board of Regents, according to its website, is that "There's no benefit to [the university] to admit out-of-state students who are not every bit as well qualified as in-state students, or conversely."
It is somewhat puzzling when out-of-state students with GPAs and standardized test scores higher than those in the top quarter of enrolled students at UW are consistently waitlisted or even rejected, while suburban Wisconsin high schools, similar to my own, consistently produce more than a few students who are accepted that leave classmates thinking "How did he get in?"
I get the feeling something needs to be done about this quota.
I understand the objections, and yes, we are a state school dependent on state funding with a responsibility to provide viable options for in-state residents who can't afford a private education. But is this costing us our goals in the classroom and our goals in the community? And shouldn't we do something about it?
Given the discrepancy between in and out-of-state admission, the answer to the former question appears to be "yes," and one way to prevent this is to admit only students that fit our admissions requirements, quota or no quota. This does not apply to underrepresented minorities, or students coming from underprivileged backgrounds — as these factors should consistently be taken into consideration and be granted greater leniency — but white students from affluent suburbs should not be handed admission on a silver platter in exchange for their Wisconsin zip codes. Admission should be earned, and if we don't have enough in-state students to meet our standards, then the quota should be capped.
Of course, students who can't afford a private education should have their pick of less expensive in-state schools, and they do. One has only to look around to see that there are plenty of options within the UW System, with schools whose varied specialties and differing requirements truly do offer something for anyone looking to stay in state. So if a student sets his or her sights on this UW of all the others, he or she should prepare to meet the requirements and not be given an advantage just because of residency.
As far as balancing the budget, we obviously need to be bringing money into the school, in which case increasing out-of-state enrollment would help, as nonresidents pay nearly three times as much as Wisconsinites. This would also allow us to provide better merit scholarships for the top tier of in-state students in order to get the best of the accepted to enroll. This brings me to my next point, which is the potential benefits of lessening the in-state quota.
On an academic level, it is, for obvious reasons, in the best interest of the university's students and administration to not only maintain, but improve, the institution's reputation and prestige. And since we are investing in the improvement of our resources with new additions such as those at Grainger Hall, the goal should be to bring in students who will be able to take full advantage of these resources, as a more qualified student body would do. Students who value their resources and experience at the university will not only be more likely to succeed, but will also have greater incentive to give back to their alma mater, as it is in their best interests to uphold the value of their degrees.
And perhaps more important than anything else is the increased diversity resulting from admitting more out-of-state students. As a campus that already struggles with homogeneity, we need to take what we can get in terms of varying the backgrounds of the UW student body. A visible effort to increase diversity is an important first step in showing a wider range of students that they are welcome on this campus. And even though out-of-state enrollment is hardly our biggest concern in terms of diversifying, it is a definite start.
To make my point clearer, take the infamous "Sconnie-Coastie" divide; the not-so-subtle hostility between students from different statesis frightening when applied on a larger scale. In other words, it shows that the university is not making enough of an effort to foster exposure and interaction, and if something as insignificant as what state someone comes from and what brand of boots he or she wears can become as abrasive an issue as it is, then how prepared are graduates for dealing with larger, interpersonal differences?
Hannah Shtein (shtein@wisc.edu) . is a sophomore majoring in philosophy and religious studies.studies
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 2:12am):
so wait, there's a problem with the majority of the student population at the University OF WISCONSIN being FROM WISCONSIN? amazing.
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 7:34am):
Yeah, I've always wondered why the university of WISCONSIN catered to people from WISCONSIN too. I mean, why are we spending WISCONSIN state tax money on people from WISCONSIN? Shouldn't we construct more research buildings and stadiums for people who will just move back to NEW JERSEY in four years?
Mike Pruden (October 9, 2007 @ 8:05am):
So Wisconsinites are dumber than out-of-staters? That Wisconsin as a whole is not diverse at the least, especially here or in Milwaukee? That's the gist I'm getting.
And high school GPAs are hardly anymore a basis of measuring a student's ability to do well in college, especially in this day of age of grade inflation - when you have at most public school several or more students who graduate high school with a perfect GPA.
And keep in mind that in state residents' tuitions are lower because our state taxes cover much of their tuitions. It would also be disciminatory to admit out-of-state residents just "to make an extra buck," and many Wisconsin taxpayers would not be happy if they would find that out.
Just like what I said the other day, what if UW Admissions admitted someone outside Wisconsin over you? I'm sure you would be complaining about the exact opposite of what you are saying right now.
It must have been nice growing up in rich, privileged suburbia...
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 8:13am):
"yes, we are a state school dependent on state funding with a responsibility to provide viable options for in-state residents...."
There you have it. Your own words. Don't like it? Go to Harvard. My taxes pay for WI kids to be educated. And hopefully the graduates stay here afterward to to support the economy. I have no objection to out of state students, but WI kids should be priority
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 9:11am):
Well Hannah, the State of Wisconsin Invests a lot of money into the UW system, much more than is covered by out of state tuition.
Out of state students are less likely to stay in Wisconsin. When they get their degree here and move away, Wisconsins tax payers have basically provided a charity.
If the UW were a private University your arguments might make sense, but its not. The citizens of Wisconsin fund the University becasue they expect their children to have access to it.
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 9:14am):
You joined a sorority to experience the diversity of the "real world"? Really? No joke?
That's sad.
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 11:02am):
You had to join a sorority to experience people from out of state?!? You must be in one of the most sheltered portions of campus. In my undergrad career, I interacted with more people from outside the state (and outside of this country for that matter), than I did with people from Wisconsin. This was just from classes and not from any extracurriculars. Hell, half my dorm floor my freshman year was from out of state (talking about the UW Housing and not one of those fancy private dorms).
And your beef with the quota system...apparently you forgot the reason why this university was created, to further the education of the citizens of WISCONSIN. Don't like it? No one is forcing you to stay here.
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 11:13am):
"much more than is covered by out of state tuition."
Better check your data, you do have data, don't you?
With out-of-state tuition at 3 times in-state I think you may be wrong. But then perhaps the extra $14,000 doesn't cover the cost?
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 11:33am):
Why not just drop all this nonsense about quotas? It's just a bunch of strong-arming by stupid liberals. The US system has survived this long and it will survive long after we've graduated.
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 12:15pm):
This is the flagship university of the state of WISCONSIN. WISCONSIN State funds from WISCONSIN taxpayers, while lamentably on the decrease, form the basis of the University of WISCONSIN-Madison.
Further, meeting people from out of this state, or people who are nothing like you, is incredibly easy on this campus. It does not take a fraternity or sorority to enable one to meet a plethoric myriad of students. You joined a sorority because the girls are just like you. That's why everyone joins Greek life. People who want to have fun just as much as they do, and just the way they want to. And that's okay.
Lastly, and most importantly: This is a state school. Any state school, especially a flagship, has a fiscal and educational responsibilty to its state. Thusly, a quota for in state students is not just jusitifed, its preferable.
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 12:16pm):
I am a sophomore majoring in neuroscience who pays out-of-state tuition. I plan to stay in WI for at least graduate school. If the country improves at an acceptable level, I will stay in WI to hopefully be a professor here at the University of Wisconsin. Yes, that's right - state employee, helping your kids get an undergraduate degree or a graduate degree.
11:33, I think you've been commenting to attack the liberals on here. Make an intelligent comment or two.
I got admitted over, probably, a few in-state students. I suspect the university probably has enough students to reach its quota of 75% in-state students, and the in-state students I beat out probably did not match the GPA needed. If UW cannot meet its quota of 75% in-state students, the burden is on the Wisconsin primary and secondary school systems to improve their teaching methods.
Madison is in the world cream of the crop of university standards. It should not have to sacrifice its excellence for catering to unqualified students, regardless of where they're from.
I completely agree that a state university should prioritize students from within the state, and still have room for out-of-state students such as myself.
This issue speaks of a greater problem within the state that needs some solution .
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 12:39pm):
While many in-state students really don't deserve to be here, I think an equal number of out-of-state students fall in the same camp.
After being in class with many a coastie (the j school will do that to you) I can say that maybe roughly half of them are dumb as rocks.
Also, the animosity between coasties and sconnies is not because of their damn Uggs -- it's their abrasive, stuck up personalities that we can't stand.
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 1:00pm):
"However, I wanted my college experience not to be a repeat of high school, and preparing for "the real world" is supposed to entail exposure to backgrounds different from your own -- whether they are opinion-related, racial, geographic or whatever."
"...Or whatever." Hannah, I think you'll fit in very nicely with the out-of-state sorority girls, given your superb language skills.
It may also be pertinent to note that there are so many Wisconsin students here because UW Madison is in WISCONSIN. If you have a problem with it, go somewhere else.
I'd like to know where you got your "information" regarding the mysterious admissions process. Even if the university DID deny out-of-state students more qualified than the in-state students they admitted, they sure as hell wouldn't be sending that out in press releases.
I don't think your whiny, out-of state friends pissing and moaning about not getting accepted here counts as evidence of a gross miscarriage in admissions policy.
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 1:10pm):
By joing a sorority aren't you constricting your exposure? Self-selecting whom you reulalrly associate does not strengthen one's diversity quotient, right? Am I wrong? I was GDI in my undergrad at another B10 school. But back in those days, Greek was boring. Maybe its the thing to do these days...but to see it as "real world"...c'mon. The real world does not have its father's credit card
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 4:23pm):
The UW has enough trouble getting funds from the state to begin with. I can already imagine Steve Nass foaming at the mouth waiting for the chance to denounce the UW for admitting too may out of state students, and wanting to reduce funding even more. Wouldn't want all those tax dollars going to fund out of state students.
I'm not saying that this situation is fair or right, but in today's political climate, the UW has to do all it can to justify expenditures on the university.
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 4:29pm):
I think it is ridiculous people are commenting about this by saying you should just go to another school etc. I agree with your opinion that by having a 75% in-state quota we are depriving the students from experiencing a multi-cultural education. We are depriving them of that mainly because the state of Wisconsin, overall, is not very diversified. over 80% of the student body is white and the biggest minorities are asians. It is not a matter of moving to another state and attending another university, it is about changing the way the system works so the level of education at UW remains top notch. Our rank as a top notch institution has steadily fallen in the last 5 years, we need to do something about that. We need to diversify and incorporate a more hands-on learning experience for students, because let's be honest, how many students on this campus really do have a culturally diverse group of friends?
And another thing, saying that coasties have daddy's credit card, they are dumb as fuck, etc.. comments like that make people look immature and ignorant, and perhaps these people should remain in high school and worry about superfluous things like that while the rest of us mature and continue with our adult interactions. This is college, get over it, grow up. They are rude to you? stand up for yourself, don't be an ass, don't bitch about it, but stand up for yourself in an educated manner. That is what the real world is about, it isn't about name calling and making fun of people or even judging and discriminating against people. I am sick and tired of hearing everyone bitch about everything and make ridiculous claims about everyone else, seriously, grow up. This university has a lot of work to do in teaching it's students how to integrate into the real world and make the switch from high school to college. And part of the problem is the lack of diversification in the majority of the student's high school population and of this university. We are all different, we all come from different backgrounds, learn to respect those differences and share the space we all live in. Don't continue to live your lives in ignorance and immaturity.. you'll be missing out.
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 6:12pm):
The UW is as dpendent on the income from out of state (OOS) tuition as it is on the funding from the state. The OOS tuition MORE than covers the average cost and in that way contributes as a profit center for the UW to help subsidize the underfunded low tuition instate students.
The biggest problem the UW has right now after crummy state funding is the low instate tuition. Most other similar state schools are charging thousands more dollars and are thus able to keep their top professors and keep the campus looking great. So quit your bitching instaters. You are riding on the $$$$ of others.
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 6:30pm):
I think that many of the people commenting are missing the whole point. The point is not that all Wisconsinites that go to this school are unqualified or that every out-of-state person is going to make this university a more diverse place. Commenting with "Don't like Wisconsin? Then Leave!" is just engaging in a screaming match of sensationalist language that hinders having a real rational debate and takes the discussion nowhere.
I personally know of many people from my high school that attend this university that really did not meet the admission requirements, and the only reason they got in had to do with the high school I went to and, more importantly, the fact that it was in Wisconsin.
I find it to be very frustrating to be in class with people who do not understand concepts and ideas that they really should have learned a couple years ago in high school. I realize that part of this has to do with a flawed educational system, but it is drastically decreasign the quality of learning taking place at Madison.
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 6:35pm):
"Wisconsin, overall, is not very diversified. over 80% of the student body is white and the biggest minorities are asians."
You're assuming that the only thing that makes you different is your race. "Diversity," in your eyes, has only to do with your skin pigmentation. Shameful.
Anonymous (October 9, 2007 @ 7:00pm):
Wow, some of these DO make me wish that I went to Harvard. Using the online comment feature as a forum for personal attacks and stereotyping just confirms the author's point, that maybe Madison isn't exactly filled with America's, well actually, Wisconsin's best and brightest. But no, instead of subscribing to the love-it-or-leave-it-mentality that some of you seem so fond of, I think that it is our responsibility to take a little pride in our school and try to improve it, rather than just accept the status quo because, "that's the way it is." True, the University of Wisconsin is in Wisconsin, as you were all so good to remind us. As such, it does have a certain responsibility to Wisconsin residents, but to what extent? The school would undoubtedly be better off without such a high quota. It would bring in more money, get higher ratings, and gain a more interesting and diverse student body. Those who might suffer would be the white suburbanites, and honestly, I wouldn't be too sympathetic. I went to a good, public High School on Milwaukee's North Shore. The UW obviously sees accepting students from my high school, and others like it, as a great way to meet their quota without lowering their standards too drastically, since most of the kids are at least somewhat smart. But the result is disastrous. This year, one third of the graduating class enrolled as Madison freshmen. ONE THIRD. So, what are we left with (besides the guaranteed hometown acquaintance sighting on the way to class)? A poor school that continually sinks in the ratings, and a white, suburban student body. So when are transfer applications due...?
Shawn Snyder (December 5, 2007 @ 10:49pm):
"but white students from affluent suburbs should not be handed admission on a silver platter in exchange for their Wisconsin zip codes."
you're racist.
I really hope you were able to learn the point of the quota through the many posts here. If you weren't able to, every single one of your teachers has failed to to teach you to think.
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