Dude, the first man who fought in court to legally own another man for life in, what was then, the colonies, was a black man (Anthony Johnson). Was that in your history books? I wonder why not.

Did you own a slave? Do you know a former slave or slave owner? Did slavery end after the conclusion of the Civil War?

You do need an education my child, it is obvious the government has failed you miserably in your ability to reason.

Someone is fishing for comments… You could have just written, “What’s the deal with the South?,” and you will get just as many replies.

Now you’re basing fact on err, counterfactualims?

Did the world end when America became a separate country from England? No, and not only have America and England long been staunch allies and close trading partners, but their peoples continue to share many friendships and family relationships. Norway seceded from Sweden, without a war, and the two countries still enjoy friendly relations. Although I don't advocate modern secession, and although I'm proud of the many good things that America has done, I don't think it would have been the end of the world if the South had been allowed to go in peace.

I think both the U.S.A. and the C.S.A. would have flourished. Interchange between the states of the two nations would have continued almost exactly as before. If anything, the presence of a prosperous low-tax, limited-government Southern confederacy would have been a powerful incentive for the federal government to limit taxes and to adhere more closely to the Constitution.

Some critics have suggested that if the Confederacy had survived, World War II may have had a different outcome. But the fact that England and America separated didn't prevent them from later joining forces to defeat Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan in World War II. The U.S. and the Confederacy certainly would have teamed up to do the same thing.

If the South had been permitted to go in peace, slavery would have died a natural death in a matter of a few decades, if not sooner. Before the war, even some Northern politicians, such as William Seward, said slavery was a dying institution. The percentage of Southern whites who belonged to slaveholding families dropped by 5 percent from 1850-1860 (Divine et al, editor, America Past and Present, p. 389). Historian Allan Nevins noted that by the 1850s “slavery was dying all around the edges of its domain” (The Emergence of Lincoln, Volume 2, p. 469). Although slavery was still economically profitable, its days were numbered. Interestingly, some of the most vocal Northern abolitionists, including Wendell Phillips, welcomed the South's secession because they believed Southern slavery would die out more quickly if the South were no longer part of the Union. Historians Randall and Donald, after noting the Confederacy's move toward officially using slaves as soldiers and the support of key Confederate leaders for granting freedom to slaves and their families for faithful military service, acknowledged that the Confederacy may very well have abolished slavery even if it had survived the war:

On November 7, 1864, President Davis went so far as to approve the employment of slave-soldiers as preferable to subjugation, and on February 11, 1865, the Confederate House of Representatives voted that if the President should not be able to raise sufficient troops otherwise, he was authorized to call for additional levies "from such classes … irrespective of color … as the … authorities … may determine"… . There was no mistaking the meaning of this action. The fundamental social concept of slavery was slipping; an opening wedge for emancipation had been inserted. Lee's opinion agreed with that of the President and Congress. On January 11, 1865, he wrote advising the enlistment of slaves as soldiers and the granting of "immediate freedom to all who enlist, and freedom at the end of the war to the families of those who discharge their duties faithfully… ." This fact, together with other indications, suggests that, even if the Confederacy had survived the war, there was a strong possibility that slavery would be voluntarily abandoned in the South. (The Civil War and Reconstruction, p. 522)

If the South had been allowed to leave in peace, over 600,000 soldiers (over half of them from the North) would have been spared death. Over 50,000 Southern civilians likewise would have been spared death. Hundreds of thousands of soldiers would not have been wounded for life. Millions of families would have been spared sorrow and anguish over their dead and wounded loved ones. Billions of dollars in property damage would have been avoided. And, race relations would not have suffered the poisoning that they experienced during and after the war.

"But," some will ask, "wouldn't the Union have been destroyed if the Confederacy had survived?" This was one of Lincoln's erroneous arguments. The Union would not have been "destroyed" if the South had been allowed to leave in peace. The Union still would have had 23 states, compared to the Confederacy's 11 states, and it would have retained control over the vast western territories. The Union's population was more than twice the size of the Confederacy's. In addition, the Union had nine times more factories than the Confederacy, twenty times more pig iron, seventeen times more textiles, two and a half times more miles of railroad tracks, thirty-two times more firearms, and nine times more production value. The Union still would have been one of the largest and most powerful countries on the earth even without the eleven states of the Confederacy. So the Union would have been just fine if the Republicans had allowed the South to go in peace. (In fact, if the Republicans had welcomed the Confederacy's initial peace initiatives, the Upper South states probably would have remained in the Union and the Confederacy would have been limited to the seven states of the Deep South. As mentioned earlier, the four Upper South states only joined the Confederacy after Lincoln made it clear he was going to invade the Deep South states. Of course, if the two nations had lived in peace, the Union would have needed to lower its tariff in order to compete with the low Confederate tariff, but that could have been done in a matter of days by the U.S. Congress.)

What would the South be like today if the Confederacy had survived? No one can say with certainty, but it's likely that taxes of all kinds would be much lower. Citizens would have much less government interference in their lives. Parents would have more control over their children's education and over their local schools. Southern schools would most likely allow voluntary prayer, moral instruction, nativity plays at Christmas time, and formal Bible reading (as our schools used to do until the 1960s when the Supreme Court suddenly decided these things were somehow "unconstitutional"). There would be tough anti-pornography laws, and those laws would be enforced. The lives of unborn children would be protected by law. There would be no question that marriage should be reserved for a man and a woman. And a state government could place a Ten Commandments monument in front of a state judicial building without having to worry about a federal judge ordering its removal on the basis of an erroneous interpretation of the Constitution.

However, all this being said, I think that if the South had been allowed to go in peace, it may very well have eventually rejoined the Union. But, if not, I don't think it would have been the end of the world if the South had remained independent. England and America have managed to do very well as separate nations. So have Norway and Sweden. So have Canada and England. So have Australia and England. I think the Confederacy and the United States could have done the same thing.

I guess all the emails didn’t affect young Andrew. He can’t be taught anything becuase he knows it all. My advice: if you don’t like us, don’t f*cking come here. Damn yankee.

The declarartions of secession also outlined subsidized fishing in new england (what we now call corporate welfare). How does that meet your root cause theory.

As one commenter mentioned before, you’d be well to read books like “The Real Lincoln”, “Emancipating Slaves, Enslaving Free Men”, “When in the Course of Human Events”, etc. I don’t recall the complete list but those are very good texts which parse through the northern revisionist history & expose the real truth behind the war.

I always got the sense that it was the yanks who rewrote history to hide the fact they invaded a soverign nation. America seems to do alot of that these days.

Brad Newell Brisbane, Australia

The last time it was the South that seceded. This time how about we in the North secede? Let’s see the South try and stop us.

“This time how about we in the North secede?”

Excellent idea. We’ll take 2/3 of the federal revenue with us and the South can pay off the massive record-breaking deficit. they can send their kids off to war. We’ll be better off without all those welfare-client hicks. We have enough poor people up here to take care of.

Blue-state secession now!

Brad the Australian makes a good point. No matter how good the reason, the U.S. did invade the Confederate States of America, which was really a sovereign nation. It is true that the first shot was fired by the South, but that was provoked by the continued occupation of Fort Sumter. One of the benefits of winning a war is that people tend to give you a license to frame yourself as the good guy.

Whoever wins the war tends to be the good guy. Look at the Korean War vs. the Vietnam War. We tend to be viewed as a good guy in Korea and a bad guy in Vietnam, even though our justification for each war was pretty similar.

Again, respondents evince a clear failure to address the issue. Celebrating the Confederacy is like decrying the Union as it now exists. This is one nation. Your flag says it shouldn’t be.

You should take American History 101 and then try to write an editorial. So far you dont have a clue as to the War Between The States. Jreb

The South should surely have the “right” to be its own country. The U.S. sent its boys to Korea because those people had a God given “Right ” to form their own country. They sent many of her sons to die in Vietnam because those people had a God given right to form their own country. Throughout history, many of our men ,North and South, have shed blood for someones “Right” to choose. But to try to do it here, would be considered “Bad” for some reason. The North dont like us Southerns…..soooo what! We are not crazy over them either. Why not just shake hands and part company and live our lives so we each would be happy and rid of the other? Even Canada had a vote several years ago for one section to leave it. Our Founding fathers would have been the biggest Confederats of all. Read for yourself….When in the course of human events……. ect.

“Celebrating the Confederacy is like decrying the Union as it now exists.”

Exactly. The Republic as envisioned by the Founding Fathers was destroyed the minute Lincoln stepped into the White House. Jefferson, Madison, et al would be ashamed of what we’ve allowed the government to become and to do the citizenry.

“We’ll take 2/3 of the federal revenue with us and the South can pay off the massive record-breaking deficit. they can send their kids off to war. We’ll be better off without all those welfare-client hicks. We have enough poor people up here to take care of.”

Unlike the yankee antgonists of history and of today, the Confederacy publicly offered to pay the federal government the Southern states' share of the national debt, to pay compensation for all federal installations in the South, and to allow Northern ships free use of the Mississippi River. The Confederacy also hoped to establish good, extensive trade relations with the United States. But Lincoln refused to even consider any Confederate peace proposals.

As far as I’m concerned, anyone who favors the Confederacy over America is a traitor to this country and should be treated as such. They are no better than Osama.

My favorite part is how nobody has actually addressed the point of the editorial: the South seceded because they wanted to continue the system of slavery. In light of this, the Confederacy should not be celebrated.

So if you inbred secessionists want us to stay out of your land, how about you stay out of ours? This is a newspaper written for a student population a good several hundred miles north of the old Confederacy. Oh, and the vast majority of your compatriots down there not only want us, but are BEGGING us to come down there with our tourist dollars because, in case you were not aware, we all have money up here instead of food stamps. And let’s give a better view of things that would not have happened had the South separated:

The south would not have become electrified in the 1930s as a part of the New Deal.

There would have been several more decades then slavery, and no matter how you define it, slavery is evil.

The huge amounts of money from our states that come into your states to prop up all of your failing infrastructures wouldn’t happen.

Oh, yes, now I see it. We up here in the north would’ve remained the great superpower. You all would be even more backward than many of you already are. Actually… I wouldn’t mind that. You’re fun to laugh at.

“As far as I’m concerned, anyone who favors the Confederacy over America is a traitor to this country and should be treated as such.”

Here in lies the root problem of government education…blind unquestioning faith.

“My favorite part is how nobody has actually addressed the point of the editorial: the South seceded because they wanted to continue the system of slavery.”

And my favorite part is how you’re so brainwashed into the whole slavery led to secession bs. No amount of fact will convince you otherwise. Again, the blind unquestioning faith of a minion educated by the government.

“This is a newspaper written for a student population a good several hundred miles north of the old Confederacy”

So why do you give a flying fajita about our holidays then? Why the article? Who cares what you think? You are after all several hundred miles away from the old Confederacy.

“but are BEGGING us to come down there with our tourist dollars because”

I defy you to find a Southerner that was begging yankees to come here. Are you for real?

“The south would not have become electrified in the 1930s as a part of the New Deal.”

FDR’s policies only made the depression worse . Google up scholarly articles by Dr. Thomas Woods (Columbia U).

“slavery is evil” No Southerner debates that. R.E. Lee freed slaves well before the US. Stonewall Jackson educated slaves. There were an abundance of abolition societies in the South (see Myths of American Slavery by Walter Kennedy). Oh, you yankees profited mightly from the slave trade —Vanderbilt, Chase, Morgan, Brown, Harvard, etc made millions of dollars off of slaves. See www.slavenorth.com for an excellent treastie.

“You all would be even more backward than many of you already are”

Now, I thought you are supposed to be tolerant? Sounds like someone needs a time out.

“You’re fun to laugh at.”

You’re not…it is not nice to laugh at the mentally ill.

11:14 AM, you need to learn to read tenses. You southerners are, are, ARE begging us to come down there with our tourist dollars. Present tense.

I never claimed to be tolerant. Tolerance is merely, as the word says, tolerating someone. I am intolerant of quite a large number of things, and am proud to be so. For example, I am intolerant of racists, the corrupt, people who don’t know how to drive, and people who support the Confederacy in the Civil War. I actually made a girl who was a Daughter of the whatever you call them cry when she said this. I thought this was funny.

And you give the example of two southerners. However, the fact remains that in 1860 the only states that allowed slavery were southern states. Actually, I wouldn’t even contest that the Civil War was about slavery. There was a popular misunderstanding in the south, that Lincoln would free the slave. This was incorrect. He would not have done so, which was made evident by the fact that the emancipation proclamation did not free slaves in those slave states that remained with the Union. The north did not go to war with the south to free the slaves. They went to war with the south because they did not believe that the south had the right to secede. Since the victors write history, they were right. And I’d hope no southerner would say that slavery is right anymore. God, would they get the you know what beaten out of them, and on a regular basis.

Also, you made two mistakes in your New Deal argument. First, you took a narrow statement and dealt with it in an extremely broad way. My narrow statement was very simply that, had the union not been maintained, it is very likely that the south would not have been electrified until much later than it was. Second, you are taking a minority opinion in a historical dispute that is very much in major debate at the moment and displaying it as fact. There are hundreds of historians who have written on the New Deal. The moderate view at the moment is that it did not help as much as it is credited for, and the evidence is rather apparent that WW2 is instead what drove us out of the Depression. But the view that the New Deal actually made things worse than they would have been without any government intervention is, still, a radical one. The views could change, but presenting one historian’s opinions as fact is not the way to go.

And just out of curiosity, how farsighted and unquestioning is your faith? Or have you been one of these Sons of the Whatever or Daughters of the Whoever for your whole life, hearing from your granddaddy/brother that them damn Yankees are all dirty, rotten liars! There are plenty of things about government I question. For example, my years of education have led me to believe that the American Revolution really wasn’t much of a revolution at all. Sorry, but nothing credible I have seen suggests the South was right in any way, shape or form. Everything your side brings up points to something extraneous: Lincoln really was a racist! The North didn’t go in it to end slavery! There were some southerners who let their slaves go! Sorry, dancing around the question isn’t answering a question.

You just got lawyered. Have a nice day.

Geez, I was kind hoping that the USA wouldn’t end up like the Balkans or the Middle East, where people re-hash old wars for centuries.

“you need to learn to read tenses. You southerners are, are, ARE begging us to come down there with our tourist dollars. Present tense”

Once again, I defy you to name a Southerner who’s begging “youze guys” to come here.

“I am intolerant of quite a large number of things”

Must make life awful…to be so angry.

“I actually made a girl who was a Daughter of the whatever you call them cry when she said this”

Ever hear of the Golden Rule? You really take pride in making a woman cry? Very sick.

“They went to war with the south because they did not believe that the south had the right to secede.”

Contrary to every fact available. Go on with your delusions, son.

“My narrow statement was very simply that, had the union not been maintained, it is very likely that the south would not have been electrified until much later than it was”

Counterfactual arguements are fun. I could advance the claim that as a separate nation, the CSA would’ve landed a man on the moon 50 years before the US.

“how farsighted and unquestioning is your faith? ” I make my own decisions. And you?

“but nothing credible I have seen suggests the South was right in any way, shape or form” What have you read? How do you deem credibility?

“Sorry, dancing around the question isn’t answering a question.” Dancing? There’s been plenty of facts posted here. You choose to ignore them due to your own bigotry.

“You just got lawyered” No, all I’ve read is regurgitated yankee propaganda that I’ve heard all my life. And at that, it’s from a very mean person whol likes making women cry.

The fact that you are or wanna be a lawyer doesn’t do anything for me. Bill Clinton was a lawyer, too. Some company you keep.

Well, since we’re playing the game, you’ve just been software engineered.

“Have a nice day” Back at ya.

Sorry, the South Was Right is not a decent source.

And once again you dance. And you actually want to know how I made that girl cry? When she told me the Confederacy was right, we were among a group of mutual friends in a restaurant. There was an African American couple sitting in the booth next to us. I told her to tell them that. She wouldn’t, so I did. And the Golden Rule doesn’t exist. It’s a logical fallacy.

And every governor and mayor in the south is trying to think of ways to get people with money to come to visit their towns. Northerners are, per capita, significantly wealthier than southerners.

And your electrification argument was awful. The correct counter to my argument was: the Civil War destroyed much of the South’s infrastructure, so it is difficult to tell what the modernization situation would have been had it not occurred.

Also, you did not deal with one main thing. I am plenty happy to admit that I have thought, since I have been able to understand such things, that the south was wrong in the Civil War. Does this, perhaps, skew my views? Yes. You, however, refused to answer whether or not you have been taught your whole life that the South was right. This would skew your views just as much, perhaps more because perhaps it is your “Crusade”.

“Sorry, the South Was Right is not a decent source” No, it’s an excellent source. Just because it doesn’t prop up your version of history, you discount it.

“And you actually want to know how I made that girl cry? “

Not really. I don’t care to enable your false machismo. Besides, I think you’re lying.

“the Golden Rule doesn’t exist.”

Where were you educated? One of the sweathogs perhaps? The Golden Rule has existed in every form of civilized culture throughout history. I gather you’re an atheist.

“And every governor and mayor in the south is trying to think of ways to get people with money to come to visit their towns”

And you accuse me of making very broad statements?

“And your electrification argument was awful.” Do you even know what a counterfactual argument is? There is no correct counter, Vinny, since it’s all in the ether to begin with.

“the Civil War destroyed much of the South’s infrastructure,” Yes, it was destroyed under the rule of a despotic president by evil minions like Sherman, Grant, Sheridan, et al.

“that the south was wrong in the Civil War” Karl Marx agreed with you.

“whether or not you have been taught your whole life that the South was right”

As stated before, I read both sides and make up my own mind. The only “Crusader” I lay claim to VMF-122 out of Beaufort, SC.

Vermont citizens are contemplating seccession due to an overly controlling federal government. If only they could find some other states with similar issues, and form an organization. A Confederacy, if you will…

http://www.alternet.org/story/50056/

Why isn’t the South was Right a descent source? Please refute it point-by-point if you’re so damn smart. I’ll bet you haven’t even heard of it until now much less read it. Northern hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Gerry Imhoff Huntsville, Ala

Where was the “South was Right” mentioned? I recall a reference to the “Myths of American Slavery” but not the former.

Gerry Imhoff Huntsville, Ala

All these comments are missing the point: John McCain is a Civil War hero that has the experience to lead this country as president.

It seems that all of our Northern friends enjoy putting themselves upon a pedestal and finding us Southerners guilty of the scurge of Slavery in our land. It seems to make them “Feel” better about themselves to place the blame of Slavery on someone else so they might hold their noses up at the Southland and really think that they somehow are better that we. Do they really think that we, the people of the South fought the bloodest war this country has ever seen to keep thier slaves? Please as a favor to yourself, take just a few seconds to Google “The Ghost Amendment”. It states that on the 2nd of March 1861, the congress of the United States adopted a joint resolution for an amendment to the Constitution which states ” No Amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will Authorize or give to Congress the power to Abolish or Interfere, within Any State, with the Domestic Institutions thereof, including that of persons held to Labor or service by the laws of said State. President James Buchanan tried to head off the war on the horizon with this offer which was passed by Congress. It was never only radified by two states….Both Northern states…..The Confederacy rejected it. So if the South was fighting this war to maintain this institution of Slavery, the war would have never happened. Congress handed it to them on a platter. Mr. Lincoln mentions this in his 1st. Address to the nation after being elected president. Altho it was passed by Congress before he was elected, he had the duty to deliver this proposal to the Southern states. The one in Raleigh, North Carolina was just found about a month ago and was prized because it had Mr. Lincolns Signature on it. Mr. Lincoln stated in his address “I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.” So to my Northern friends I say, this is not revised history……this is true history. So if you really want to think that the Union army was fighting to save their brothers from the bonds of slavery and to become the hero of mankind…….just ask some of our Indian friends whos people was cut in half by the troopers of Custers Clavary or maybe the famous Bufflo Soldiers who are so famous for doing the same. WE all have sinned and done wrong things on this earth….. May we all find forgiveness God Bless Robert E. Lee!!

In case you missed it, the US Congress was controlled by southern Democrats for decades. Maybe it will be again?

The South Was Right is hugely selective. And sorry if I don’t have time to to refute it point by point, but I have too much of a life to spend my time fighting a war that my side won 150 years ago. Ask the historian community. Oh, or were they all swayed by the government too?

Although, I must say, it isn’t really “my side.” My ancestors were in Eastern Europe in the 1860s.

And once again, selective quoting on your part. You read both sides and decided on your own. But did your parents and/or grandparents also tell you the south was right? If so, you’ve been as skewed by your past as I have by my “government”.

And the Vermont secessionist movement is a tiny minority of the state.

Seriously, all this redneck propoganda is almost as painful as listening to Al Gore speak about global warming.

By the by, just out of curiosity, would any of you supporters of the Confederacy have the testicular fortitude to go up to a group of black men and tell them your views about it?

“John McCain is a Civil War hero…”

Civil War hero? Jeez, how old is this McCain guy?! I hope he doesn’t die in office!

“John McCain is a Civil War hero…”

Really?! How is it that this guy was eligible to fight in the Civil War AND the Vietnam War?

The point is being missed. Southern apologists are skirting the issue. We all know slavery existed and was encouraged by entities in both the North and South. The issue in this column is whether or not the Confederacy and what it stood for should be honored. Tell me why the Confederacy should be honored. Remembered, certainly. But tell me why that memory should conjure pride in the hearts of the citizens of this now unified nation.

To the confederates on this board:

Yes, you are right when you say the Civil War wasn’t ONLY about slavery. Yet, as you accuse us of ignoring other facts, why do you ignore the fact that the Confederate states declared their position on slavery as their main reason for leaving the Union. It is a simple fact, recorded in the documents written BY THOSE STATES THEMSELVES. Talk about ignoring history …

History?? How about almost current events down south.

Alabama Gov. George Wallace stood at the door of Foster Auditorium at the University of Alabama in a symbolic attempt to block two black students, Vivian Malone and James Hood, from enrolling at the school. The drama of the nation’s division over desegregation came sharply into focus that June day.

It was the same year that civil rights marchers had been turned back with police dogs and fire hoses in Birmingham, Ala. The year began with Wallace vowing “segregation now, segregation tomorrow and segregation forever” in his inaugural speech.

You do realize that all these civil war reenactor rejects are the same person, right? When he can’t find forums to argue about the Civil War, he moves on to the 9/11 forums and argues that Bush knew or the Jews knew or something you can only come up with after your meth lab explodes in your face and melts half your brain.