Opinion

Kaplan’s remarks not racist

Gerald Cox
Sharing Tools:

E-mail this article:




Share on:

by Gerald Cox
Monday, February 26, 2007 00:00

From the stories coming out about a University of Wisconsin law professor, it seems that UW-Madison has its very own tenured Michael Richards. Unlike Richards, however, UW law professor Leonard Kaplan's remarks targeted Wisconsin's Hmong minority. Also unlike Richards, Kaplan's remarks, however insensitive they may seem in the lack of context in which we are seeing them, were not racist. According to The Associated Press, an e-mail distributed by a Hmong student quotes Kaplan making comments as ridiculous as "Hmong men have no talent other than to kill," as well as "Hmong women are better off now that Hmong men are dying off in this country." On the Hmong and gangs, Kaplan is quoted as saying, "All second-generation Hmong end up in gangs and other criminal activity." Other outlandish highlights from Kaplan's now-infamous lecture include, "All (Hmong) men purchase their wives. So if he wants to have sex with his wife and she doesn't consent, you and I call it rape, but the Hmong guy is thinking, 'Man, I paid too much for her!'" It's an incredible story, really. One would imagine Kaplan went Michael Richards on his class, complete with finger pointing and awkward laughter from his audience slowly giving away to pained gasps. Rumor has it that there may even be a grainy cell phone video circulating around YouTube of the event. With these kinds of quotes flying around, we can only wonder why Kaplan has yet to be removed from his position at the law school. So, after a casual perusal of the information provided, do you find yourself feeling disgusted? Angered? Comfortable with labeling Kaplan's comments as racist, bigoted rhetoric? You should. Unless you're a racist. Though chances are if you're a racist, you wouldn't be reading my column. Assuming you're not a racist and comfortable with labeling Kaplan's comments as racial bigotry, rest assured you are not alone. KaShia Moua, the Hmong student who originally sent the e-mail disclosing Kaplan's racial broadsides, characterized the comments as "incredibly offensive and racist." Usually I'd agree with such a characterization after reading such ostensibly vitriolic comments. However, fellow Hmong student, Nam Dao, insists he was not offended by the comments. Jigga what? A Hmong student entirely not offended by Kaplan's seemingly derogatory generalizations of the entire Hmong population? Why the disparity between Dao's and Moua's reactions? Perhaps it's because Dao was there. According to the St. Paul Pioneer Press, Dao admitted that he "felt a bit uncomfortable mainly due to the delivery of the stereotypes, which were shrouded in Kaplan's trademark style of humor that can be quite polarizing." But Dao insists that Kaplan's ridiculous assessment of the Hmong dowry system was in reality an attempt to explain how "ethnic minorities can use a 'cultural defense argument' in rape cases." Additionally, Dao attributes Kaplan's "gang and criminal activity" comment to Kaplan's attempt at critiquing Wisconsin's mishandling of providing educational and vocational opportunities to its Hmong population. While racist rants are a crude way to spark social change, a pattern in Kaplan's behavior is beginning to emerge. This man is no racist, and his comments — when taken in context — do not reflect a prejudiced view on his part. It is possible that what Dao saw — as opposed to what we have heard — was not a man lashing out in prejudiced anger at an ethnic minority group, but rather a law professor who used rather extreme examples in an attempt to explain the intricacies of lawmaking in a diverse and increasingly complex society. While his delivery may seem a bit abrasive to some, his audience was a classroom full of a demographic that I am sure is more than capable of handling the impassioned and earnest pedagogy of tenured law professors — law students. Especially when that law professor harbors no ill will toward the ethnic minority in question and particularly when a member of said ethnic minority in attendance is not offended in the least. Initial reactions to Kaplan's comments do not at all reflect an understanding of the context in which Kaplan made his comments. Professors like Kaplan should endeavor to exercise tact when discussing ethnic stereotypes; however, in the interest of a free and frank exchange of ideas, professors should be allowed to speak in the subjunctive without worrying that it will be used against them. Kaplan is not guilty of racist generalizations that are reflective of his inner prejudices. The man deserves the benefit of the doubt, or at least a chance to explain himself. Gerald Cox (gcox@badgerherald.com) is a junior majoring in Middle Eastern studies and economics.


Feedback
Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 8:34am):

The tortured "logic" of the professional racial demogogue climbs up on its hind legs and howls again.

Unfortunatley, we've seen this tired act too many times to count.

Flay Michael Richards-- snigger with Rosie (Ching-Chong) O'Donnell.

Pillory Trent Lott-- excuse Robert (wh-igger) Byrd.

Fling Oreos at Michael Steele-- coronate Barrack Obama.

Fire Professor Gerald Gee-- whitewash Professor Leonard Kaplan.

Same old act-- different venue.

/yawn

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 9:07am):

First off: NAM DAO, is not another Hmong Student. He's NOT even Hmong. He's Vietnamese, there's a difference. Get it straight. Futhtermore, the word "dowry" was never used.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 9:46am):

In response to "A Hmong student entirely not offended by Kaplan's seemingly derogatory generalizations of the entire Hmong population?"

You better get your facts straight before you say things like this. Nam Dao is NOT hmong. You got the wrong info.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 10:34am):

Change your title-his remarks were racist, whether or not they reflect his own opinions.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 11:01am):

"Why the disparity between Dao's and Moua's reactions?"

That's because Dao is not hmong and Moua is. How would you feel if it was about your ethnic group?

"extreme examples" = What's the limit on how extreme of an example a prof can use?

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 11:03am):

I don't even know what a Hmong is. One of those rice patty countries? Hmong, Vietnamese, what's the difference?

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 11:12am):

"But Dao insists that Kaplan's ridiculous assessment of the Hmong dowry system was in reality an attempt to explain how "ethnic minorities can use a 'cultural defense argument' in rape cases." "

Good thing he didn't bag on the Moslems or he'd end up like Van Gogh.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 1:02pm):

"I don't even know what a Hmong is. One of those rice patty countries? Hmong, Vietnamese, what's the difference?" Okay, whoever wrote this is realllly ignorant. There is a really big difference, you idiot. It's like saying, what's the difference between a French and a German.. hey they're all white skinned, aren't they the same?

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 1:04pm):

The fact that Nam Dao is not Hmong totally weakens Gerald's whole argument. Like others have said, the disparity of opinions between Dao and Moua lies in the fact that Dao is not Hmong, and therefore, did not feel that Kaplan's remarks were offensive.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 1:59pm):

Here is an <a href=http://whokilledgwb.com/2007/02/25/is-speech-really-free-wwwracismedu/>article<a> on point written by a former Wisconsin Law student (also a minority and former student of Professor Kaplan.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 2:12pm):

Hey there Gerald. First off, if you're going to write an editoral, at least keep it accurate especially when it comes to a rather sensitive issue like this. You have you're facts all wrong and you've taken them from 3rd or 4th hand accounts. You could've easily talked with Nam Dao before writing this article.

You're first error is stating that Nam Dao is Hmong. Nam Dao is as Hmong as I am Black and my name is Touhoua Sailue Yang which clearly shows that I'm not black at all! See the correlation? 1+1 adds to 2. That must mean that Nam Dao isn't Hmong at all either.

Secondly, were you even present at Wednesday's meeting in the Law School where Nam Dao made his comments? Where Dean Davis (Dean of the Law School) made his comments? Who ever got these comments from Dao were obviously second hand because all media members were asked to leave the room and they all did so. Unless you were present in the room, you have absolutely no idea what went on or what was said. As Nam said and I quote "Professor Kaplan shoots from the hips" as if that should be fine and well. That's exactly what we need here. Everyone should just shoot from the hips like Tim Hardaway, Michael Richards, Mel Gibson (albeit drunk), or even Rush Limbaugh. These guys would make for great professors with their diverse views on people.

The thing that is most disturbing is, that you are a young, probably very intelligent black man, and your parents/grandparents probably faced even more racism and bigotry yet you fail to see this? Is it because it wasn't a statement made against your minority group. Let's turn the table and say that if Professor Kaplan had said "ALL YOUNG BLACK MEN END UP AS EITHER BLOOD OR CRIP MEMBERS OR IN PRISON. THEY ALL HAVE SEX WITH THEIR BLACK WOMEN AND THEN RUN OFF LEAVING THEIR WOMEN TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES WHILE REFUSING TO BE A FATHER TO THEIR CHILDREN" imagine the outrage we'd have on this campus but since it's about the Hmong, then it's all ok and it's no big deal. Ask yourself, had Professor Kaplan said that about blacks, would you not get offended?

Now I understand he has his right to use his "academic freedom" and I think he could've chosen his words in a better manner. If he had said something like "I will use an example of the stereotypes about Hmong people here in WI which is not true" I would've been fine but he didn't which causes a problem.

As your article shows, what we see in this here is a People tutor who knows exactly what he's talking about or a rather ignorant student who didn't even attempt to make this a good and valid editorial. Nam Dao is a student here and the least you could've done before stating that he was Hmong was actually talking to the guy. I wonder if Nam is offended? Imagine if someone had used your name, Gerald Cox and said you were white or French, or Hispanic? Jigga, what? Exactly.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 2:24pm):

I was in the class, this is all being taken out of context. If anything he was supporting Hmongs and criticizing Wisconsin failure in incorporating them into Northern WI society. Look at all the talk this has stirred! If anything he's remarks helped bring light to a situation. He is not a racist and his remarks were not racist.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 2:24pm):

Hey there Gerald. First off, if you're going to write an editoral, at least keep it accurate especially when it comes to a rather sensitive issue like this. You have you're facts all wrong and you've taken them from 3rd or 4th hand accounts. You could've easily talked with Nam Dao before writing this article.

You're first error is stating that Nam Dao is Hmong. Nam Dao is as Hmong as I am Black and my name is Touhoua Sailue Yang which clearly shows that I'm not black at all! See the correlation? 1+1 adds to 2. That must mean that Nam Dao isn't Hmong at all either.

Secondly, were you even present at Wednesday's meeting in the Law School where Nam Dao made his comments? Where Dean Davis (Dean of the Law School) made his comments? Who ever got these comments from Dao were obviously second hand because all media members were asked to leave the room and they all did so. Unless you were present in the room, you have absolutely no idea what went on or what was said. As Nam said and I quote "Professor Kaplan shoots from the hips" as if that should be fine and well. That's exactly what we need here. Everyone should just shoot from the hips like Tim Hardaway, Michael Richards, Mel Gibson (albeit drunk), or even Rush Limbaugh. These guys would make for great professors with their diverse views on people.

The thing that is most disturbing is, that you are a young, probably very intelligent black man, and your parents/grandparents probably faced even more racism and bigotry yet you fail to see this? Is it because it wasn't a statement made against your minority group. Let's turn the table and say that if Professor Kaplan had said "ALL YOUNG BLACK MEN END UP AS EITHER BLOOD OR CRIP MEMBERS OR IN PRISON. THEY ALL HAVE SEX WITH THEIR BLACK WOMEN AND THEN RUN OFF LEAVING THEIR WOMEN TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES WHILE REFUSING TO BE A FATHER TO THEIR CHILDREN" imagine the outrage we'd have on this campus but since it's about the Hmong, then it's all ok and it's no big deal. Ask yourself, had Professor Kaplan said that about blacks, would you not get offended?

Now I understand he has his right to use his "academic freedom" and I think he could've chosen his words in a better manner. If he had said something like "I will use an example of the stereotypes about Hmong people here in WI which is not true" I would've been fine but he didn't which causes a problem.

As your article shows, what we see in this here is a People tutor who knows exactly what he's talking about or a rather ignorant student who didn't even attempt to make this a good and valid editorial. Nam Dao is a student here and the least you could've done before stating that he was Hmong was actually talking to the guy. I wonder if Nam is offended? Imagine if someone had used your name, Gerald Cox and said you were white or French, or Hispanic? Jigga, what? Exactly.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 3:09pm):

Of course, the race baiters are doing their thing by making sure everyone knows Dao is not Hmong and not addressing the real issue. In reality, does it matter whether he is Hmong? NO! What matters is someone actually took the time to put into context the words used by Kaplan. When in context, there is absolutely NOTHING racist about it!

If people would spend more time doing something useful, rather than searching for things to find offensive, and making the benign taboo, the whole world would be a better place. If you are going to be offended by something, at least try to find something used in an offensive manner.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 3:26pm):

The laws of this earth is deeply ingrain in our lives. Living life according to our own standards, unacknowledged of other people&apos;s pain unless it is ourselves who once or is enduring it. Ignorance truly is a bliss.

To be honest, your opinion on why this is not a racial issue is invalid because you are not Hmong. Until you see it from our perspective and actually make an attempt to
get your facts straight, you will continue to live in a blinded world only full of your own ignorance. This situation is exactly why stereotypes and racial issues still continue to exist in this country.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 4:37pm):

This statement is from Nam Dao, a student in Kaplan's legal process class.

First off, Gerald relied on an AP reporter that got my ethnicity wrong-even though I provided the AP reporter with my correct ethnicity-Vietnamese. Being Vietnamese and growing up on the West Coast where there a lot of SE Asian immigrants, I am familiar with the stereotypes used by Kaplan; thus, I have developed a thick skin for stereotypes. Therefore, my tolerance for being offended is higher than for most people.

Regarding my comment that "Kaplan shoots from the hips," that is not supposed to justify his actions I was merely trying to described his personality and provide some context to the inflammatory statements.

Though I was not offended by Kaplan&apos;s use of the Hmong stereotypes, I felt a bit uncomfortable mainly due to the delivery of the stereotypes, which were shrouded in Kaplan&apos;s trademark style of humor that can be quite polarizing. Yet at the same time, I realize that law school is not about being in your comfort zone all the time. Many times, we discuss delicate issues that affect everyone including gender, race, and sexual orientation.

The response to discussing the delicate issues in Kaplan&apos;s class demonstrates the necessity for the University of Wisconsin to not only have a working diversity policy but to also increase efforts to recruit a racially diverse student body. Doing so will help ensure that these types of comments are not harmful; because, there will be an adequate level of racially diverse students that will be able to offer varying viewpoints on these perceived stereotypes. Moreover, an adequate level of racially diverse students helps ensure that no one student will feel like they are a spokesperson for their race. The University of Wisconsin Law School promotes a law in action curriculum, and I feel that this incident represents Grutter v. Bollinger in action--the critical mass of diverse students at this law school enables this productive dialogue about race and stereotypes.

The subject matter in our Legal Process class was about the role of cultural values in formulating law. Kaplan used Hmong stereotypes, particularly the dowry system and the gang problem, to illustrate two points. With regards to the dowry system, if a women does not consent to sex, the man will be charged with rape in America. However, in criminal cases involving ethnic minorities, there exists the cultural defense argument--essentially, &quot;in my culture this is not a crime.&quot; Kaplan noted that the cultural defense argument is used by people from other cultures as well, such as Muslims. Regarding the gang problem among the Hmong population, Kaplan used it to illustrate the point that the state of Wisconsin is not doing a good job of providing educational opportunities and job training to the Hmong. Thus, the state of Wisconsin is not doing a good job of embracing cultural differences and helping a section of the Hmong to assimilate into mainstream culture. Kaplan noted that the second generation of immigrant groups usually contain a criminal element, using Meyer Lansky, who was Jewish, to illustrate that point.

I think it is clear that Kaplan is not a racist, but nonetheless some of my friends and classmates were offended by his use of Hmong stereotypes to illustrate an academic point. I believe that this is only the beginning of what will be a long journey, post Grutter v. Bollinger, to impart lessons of cross-racial understanding to university students. I commend his efforts and that of the students. The outcome has flourished into an important discussion of cultures and the role and boundaries of university professors.

Finally, I feel that the classroom is a place to discuss stereotypes, especially in law school. Society does not have too many forums where we can discuss stereotypes openly. Kaplan, I think thought that these stereotypes were based on empirical observations. I don't think that Kaplan was trying to make a value-judgment about Hmong people. I think a reason why people were offended was because of his unconventional style, and couple that with the fact that the Hmong are under the microscope in WI and we have the volatile situation we see here. I think this incident can be a springboard to promote thoughtful and productive dialouge about race consistent with the teachings of Grutter.

Regards,

Nam Dao
3L University of Wisconsin Law School

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 4:52pm):

Let me get this straight, unless I am within the group seeking sympathy for a &quot;racist&quot; remark, I am not allowed to say things like &quot;get over it&quot; because I cannot understand the pain? If you do not understand their pain, how can you relate to it as well? For that matter, how can any non-vet (or active military) make a comment or have an opinion about the military? Based on your standard, they do not understand, therefore, they cannot comment. How can anyone that has never been a nicotine or alcohol addict comment on those who are addicted? Obviously they do not understand the nature of addiction and the pain it causes. How can anyone who is not balding and fat make judgments about those who are balding and fat? They do not fully understand the impact gravity (or the gravity of the impact) such comments make. How dare anyone criticize the job a professor does, they are not qualified to do so unless they have been a professor before. How can any persecute a Christian (or any other religion) if they are not Christian, obviously they do not know what pain it causes.

How can anyone have an opinion on anything because no one is qualified to do so!? The funny thing is, those who make the biggest deal out of all this are those who will profit from it (you know who you are). Unless you have ever been offended I take offense to you making comments about those who are offended.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 7:04pm):

"To be honest, your opinion on why this is not a racial issue is invalid because you are not Hmong."

Like the person said before this makes absolutely no sense. If someone were Hmong they obviously probably do have more insight into the issue than others might making their opinion more credible. But not being Hmong does not make an argument logically or factually "invalid" as you claim. This issue goes beyond just the Hmong community, many other groups can identify with being discriminated against. Validity and credibility are two completely different concepts

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 7:20pm):

Gerald, excellent article. I've had Kaplan for a few courses and he is not a racist, and these remarks were completely taken out of context. The initial email describing Kaplan's comments removed the context and intentionally led readers to conclude that Kaplan believes all Hmong are criminals and gangters which is obviously not something Kaplan believes. I feel bad that the student was offended but this student should publicly apologize to Kaplan for clearly misrepresenting his beliefs, the context of the discussion, and ignoring the fact that his effort to integrate cultural differences into the legal process class was designed to argue that the law should be more sensitive to cultural differences. This type of cultural sensitivity is beneficial to integration of a culture, and he should be praised for attempting to deal with such an important issue in the law rather than trashed for a misintepretation.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 7:44pm):

Anonymity grows everyone a pair of huge red balls.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 7:48pm):

Some law students are now demand that "the school to adopt a new critical race theory and law program." That sounds like a great idea. This, combined with the law school dean's unwillingness to support academic freedom, will ensure nobody will talk about culture for fear of offending someone and being labeled a racist.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 9:24pm):

Yes, anonymity gives everyone huge balls as everyone talks behind their computer. Put a name behind those words.

Touhoua Yang

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 10:44pm):

Others are right in saying that Nam Dao is not Hmong is accurate. However, that should not be an issue. To use one Hmong (presumably) student's thoughts/feelings/reaction to a remark to discount another student (not to mention the Hmong community's) reaction to the event is a logical fallacy.

Additionally, to focus and conjecture on the INTENT behind the comments being made as a measure of racism is ludicous. As that would imply that any ignorant individual cannot be racist or make racist remarks due to his or her ignorance not to mention disregard the IMPACT the comments have made not only on individual students but on the Hmong community as a whole.

To condone and make excuses for such behavior is to perpetuate racism. To be silent on such an issue is to condone it. For administrators (not just those in the law school, but all administrators) to claim to value diversity and differences while continuing to be silent on this issue is hypocrisy.

Duong Nguyen
Advanced Standing MSSW Student
School of Social Work
dnguyen3@wisc.edu

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 11:01pm):

Context doesn't give you the right to make blantant, disparaging generalizations and stereotypes against people. I challenge all of you who think otherwise to walk up to a black guy and say, "F--- you, (racial generalization), I'll never say that to you because it's hurtful and we need to do something about it." and not flinch. Or go up to a white guy and say, "F--- you, (racial generalization), I should never say that to you because it's wrong." If they don't immediately beat the snot out of you, ask them how it made them feel. Many people will react in the same way as this Hmong student did (many will react like Dao, too, and that's also ok, if that's how they've learned to deal with it). I'm sure many of you are thinking that's a stupid thing to do, and you'd be right. You may say that's a poor example, but is it? In it's most basic form, this is what Kaplan has essentially done to those Hmong who are offended. Especially as a professor, he should not be using terrible, ridiculous, ignorant stereotypes to prove his little point because you know what, to some, it is a terrible, ridiculous, and ignorant way of making a point. That's not to say Kaplan's a racist, but just because he isn't a racist doesn't mean he didn't make ignorant, racist remarks. People make mistakes, he made a mistake, he should apologize, the Hmong student should not have to apologize for being offended (that suggestion just has no merit) and everybody should just learn and move on. As bad as this situation is, the ideas about creating new programs on campus to help combat these situations are great ideas in helping to learn from these terrible experiences and help in at least turning this negativity into positivity, because even though Madison may be arguably the most diverse area in Wisconsin, it's still Wisconsin.

Anonymous (February 26, 2007 @ 11:50pm):

Let's try this: "Some scholars believe that second generation immigrants are, under certain social conditions, prone to engage in localized, organized illegal activity. This trend can be seen, for example, in the twentieth-century experiences of Irish, Italian, Jewish and Hmong immigrant families in America. The causes have been traced by some scholars to cultural and social causes within these communities, as well as barriers to assimilation in various state laws." I just made that up, but I bet you can find comparable assertions in lots of textbooks. It also sounds a lot like what some students in the class are reporting Kaplan said.

Is that racist? Of course not. But according to the reasoning in many of these posts (not all of which contain any reasoning at all) it is. Some people deserve only our pity.

Anonymous (February 27, 2007 @ 12:41am):

Want to know about Hmong bride price practices? Read the following link hosted by the Hmong Cultural Center:

http://www.hmongcenter.org/hmonmarcus.html

Paragraphs 5-7 discussing bride price and bride "captures" are particularly interesting in light of the comments that Kaplan made in his law and culture lecture. I don't see why we can't discuss these cultural difference when they are well documented. It's a shame that self-loathing youth can't embrace their cultural differences and discuss them in class, especially if a professor is supposedly mischaracterizing these differences. If we can't do this in law school, then Grutter (aff action case) got it wrong. This is obviously not the proper forum for cross-racial understanding and breaking down stereotypes.

I guess I'm just an optimist, but i think that law school is the proper forum. This is just a knee-jerk reaction by some students, and I hope they someday see that their actions are censoring the type of speech that is necessary at this level of education.

Anonymous (February 27, 2007 @ 1:04am):

long live the first amendment and academic freedom.

Anonymous (February 27, 2007 @ 9:48am):

I have to disagree with the above comment. In the United States exists a practice in which males with some money will order their brides overseas.

While such a practice exists within a subgroup of United States culture, no one is quick to generalize such a practice as an American thing.

Cultural difference exists, that's absolutely true. But within culture is even more culture. Within diversity is even more diversity. Such as there are subcultures within US society, there are subcultures within ALL cultures. One has to account for that if one is to talk about culture on any level. Also, there has to be a differentiation between Asian and Asian Americans. There are differences between Asians and Asian Americans as Asian Americans face unique barriers when navigating US culture especially since they are treated and seen as foreigners.

Studies have also shown that gangs exists not because people are prone to violent tendencies but that they lack opportunities and a sense of belonging. This is what happens when a group of people are treated as outsiders. Given the large number of Hmong and/or Hmong American students at UW such a statement by Kaplan is pure ignorance.

I am not against discussing cultural differences, but often the discussion involves one student (usually the one that is different) sharing his or her experience. That's not a discussion, but a presentation. Just as Kaplan's comments about Hmong Americans were a presentation and not a discussion.

Duong Nguyen
Advanced Standing MSW
School of Social Work

Anonymous (February 27, 2007 @ 10:27am):

Kaplan's point was that Wisconsin should do a better job integrating Hmong to prevent gang membership. A cultural generalization got this point across, and if his words were taken in context you would realize that Kaplan's statements were not "pure ignorance" but rather an informed sentiment based on his study of the issues and his expertise in criminal law.

Anonymous (February 27, 2007 @ 11:03am):

"Studies have also shown that gangs exists not because people are prone to violent tendencies but that they lack opportunities and a sense of belonging. This is what happens when a group of people are treated as outsiders." If you read my statement putting Kaplan's comments into context, then you would realize that was what Kaplan did. Kaplan made exactly that point, you take this immigrant group and put them in the North Woods of WI and no wonder the Hmong are having problems assimilating. Kaplan said that all 2nd generation immigrant groups experience a gang problem and used the Hmong and Jewish example to illustrate that point. I think that the 2nd generation of immigrant groups fall into crime because cultural assimilation takes time and the ugly side to the American dream is that the disillusioned ones resort to crime. Why should we not be able to discuss the gritty side to the American dream? Duong, you've seen this in our own community, how many of your friends didn't "make it,"--I know a bunch.

Kaplan wanted to spur discussion--it just didn't happen in that classroom. But this discussion is happening now outside of the classroom which is exactly what we want. As I've said before, this law school recruits a diverse student body so that we can inform our peers and to knock down stereotypes. The spirit of Grutter would be diminished if the discussion of stereotypes were kept off limits. Once again, Kaplan was not making a value judgment about Hmong people, he needed concrete examples of cultural differences to illustrate the problems of legal formalism. Now the delivery of the stereotypes may have been in poor taste and insensitive but that does not make him a racist.

Nam Dao
3L Law School

Anonymous (February 27, 2007 @ 1:03pm):

Also, Mr. Dao is currently a student in Professor Kaplan's class.

He has an incentive to support his teacher and receive a good grade.

He says, "he needed concrete examples of cultural differences to illustrate the problems of legal formalism. Now the delivery of the stereotypes may have been in poor taste and insensitive but that does not make him a racist."

His examples are not fact.
They are not concrete examples.

Please come to the public meeting and let Mr. Kaplan continue on with that lecture including those concrete examples about Hmong men. Then have an open discussion so Mr. Dao and Mr. Kaplan can learn. Next year, no more spreading incorrect concrete examples of Hmong men or 2nd generation culture.

Keep digging Mr Dao. You say, "Now the delivery of the stereotypes may have been in poor taste and insensitive but that does not make him a racist."

Think of what law students could have spent that time learning, and thinking about American legal process with a better teacher. Poor taste and insensitivity are not a crime, but UW Law could do better for the students and community than this controversial nonsense for its own sake. Please sit down Mr. Dao. You're no expert here either.

Anonymous (February 27, 2007 @ 1:08pm):

"Some scholars believe that second generation immigrants are, under certain social conditions, prone to engage in localized, organized illegal activity. This trend can be seen, for example, in the twentieth-century experiences of Irish, Italian, Jewish and Hmong immigrant families in America. The causes have been traced by some scholars to cultural and social causes within these communities, as well as barriers to assimilation in various state laws." I just made that up, but I bet you can find comparable assertions in lots of textbooks. It also sounds a lot like what some students in the class are reporting Kaplan said.

"Is that racist? Of course not."

That is not what the Dean admits he said.
Maybe he could practice his lectures, so that it's not bigoted babble but clearly presented information, as written above. He brought this on himself... and our school. Sad, apologize stop digging the whole in trying to defend those basic statements, which the Dean admits were said.

Anonymous (February 27, 2007 @ 3:24pm):

great article gerald! i can't even explain how blown out of proportion tis is.

Anonymous (February 27, 2007 @ 3:26pm):

no one will admit it but the majority of the law school population thinks this thing has been blown way out of proportion. way out. many many many students in the class dont think anything wrong happened.

Anonymous (February 27, 2007 @ 3:28pm):

actually when law school professors grade their papers or exams law students use a number so no professor even knows whose paper/exam they are grading. so mr. dao does not need to do that. but thanks for your ignorance!

Anonymous (February 27, 2007 @ 3:39pm):

kaplan is HMONG GOD NOW!

Anonymous (February 27, 2007 @ 4:02pm):

"Also, Mr. Dao is currently a student in Professor Kaplan's class.

He has an incentive to support his teacher and receive a good grade. "

Actually, this is my last semester here and I have a job lined up, so my grade in this class has no bearing on my immediate future--its the equivalent of senioritis. I'm supporting the open discussion of race and stereotypes in the classroom instead of stifling it.

Nam

Anonymous (February 28, 2007 @ 1:59pm):

Gerald,

The media is exclusively focusing on what happened in the classroom. The in-class events are secondary. Someone should do a story about the comments made by Kaplan when the students met with him after class.

Essentially he said that he was sorry that he had hurt their feelings, but that the comments were an accurate description of Hmong culture. That is a problem. That is the main problem, and is a demonstration of cultural incompetence.

What now needs to follow is strong support of the students involved, and the introduction of a long-overdue discussion on cultural competence in academia.

Anonymous (February 28, 2007 @ 5:31pm):

Nice article Gerald! Next time get your facts straight before submitting anything else k? =)

Anonymous (February 28, 2007 @ 6:19pm):

The title should have been, Kaplan is not a Racist... instead of Kaplan's Remarks Not Racist. Becuase they were racist. Period. Assuming that a whole general population is a certain way is racist. "All Hmong" and "all second generation" are sweeping judgements about a specific population that is Hmong. That is racist.

If he wanted to talk about the legal issues pertaining to cultural relitivism, then he could have given more context to these statements as well as lectured it in an academic way (as he is supposed to). Understandably, there are many problems with some legal issues. But it is much more complex than the way that Kaplan has lectured it.

Yes, there are problems with delinquent youths in the Hmong community. But, there are delinquent youths in other communities also. The similarities between these communities with the Hmong community is not race, but class. CLASS should be the topic of discussion when speaking about delinquency.

To the statement about all Hmong men are bad. I have not met any white, black, or other men who I felt were great either. Plus, not ALL Hmong men are bad. BUT all men have bad sides as well as good sides towards women. The issue then would not be about race, but the power with which some men feel they have to abuse women.

The the dowry statement. Yes, there is a dowry. It's not much different from the tens of thousands of dollars that go to traditional white weddings. Or the traditions of which side of the family pays for what. The dowry, however, is not an excuse to abuse women. Again, that comes from the male power over females argument.

Now what I want to know is not IF these statements were racist or not. It offended many students and shows the level of integrity that the school as well as the University of Wisconsin has towards their students. What actions are being taken?

The lesson learned here is the amount of support the University of Wisconsin as a WHOLE has or does not have towards their students.

Come on. Show us what you do in this kind of situation University.

Anonymous (February 28, 2007 @ 6:25pm):

Kaplan clearly alienated the Hmong students when he said "you and I call it rape, but the Hmong guy...". What was the Hmong students supposed to feel? They are not the "you or I", they were the"Hmong guy". Were they supposed to "better die off" than studying because they had "no other skills than to kill"? It seems to me, the speech was targeting the Hmong students. What a shame!

Toog

Anonymous (February 28, 2007 @ 10:22pm):

Look at the statements that were presented to us, "Hmong men have no other talent but to kill" and the like. Honestly, if you were a Hmong man or Hmong in general, how would you NOT be offended by this. Seriously, stop looking at everything else, and look at those words for what it is, "Hmong men have no other talent but to kill". All you intelligent people stop going past those concrete words, "Hmong men have no other talent but to kill". Say it out loud, now delete the word "Hmong" and put whatever your ethnicity in front of men, "______ men have no other talent but to kill." Now do this for all the other comments and see if it is offensive or not. Gerald, imagine the law professor saying "Black men have no other talent but to shoot a basketball or dunk." Obviously that is false because here you are writing a column for the news, though some of the facts you presented are completely wrong.
The one aspect that makes me angry more than anything else though, is the fact that he justifies what he says because of supposed academic studies. Look at his words, how can you convince me that these statements are based off academic studies? "Hmong men have no other talent but to kill." "Hmong women are better off now that Hmong men are dying off in this country"... "all Hmong men purchase their wives, so if he wants to have sex with his wife and she doesn't consent, you and i call it rape, but the
Hmong guy is thinking 'man, I paid too much for her!"... Preposterous.

On a final note, which everyone who reads this article should know, is the fact that the issue is not about racism but rather ignorance, which was stated at the meeting by the Hmong reps but which Gerald conveniently left out, or rather had no idea about it. If we discuss Kaplan as being racist, of course there are going to be two sides tearing at each other, but if that word were changed to ignorance, I believe those defending him would quietly disappear, in addition to those who want the blood of a "racist" law professor. Ignorance is the key issue here. Ignorance that can eventually lead to what everyone is arguing about, racism.

-Z

Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 10:27am):

"Hmong men have no other talent but to kill".
"all Hmong men purchase their wives, so if he wants to have sex with his wife and she doesn't consent, you and i call it rape, but the Hmong guy is thinking 'man, I paid too much for her!"

What great examples isn't it!! Wonder what Kaplan was thinking when he use that as an example. By these racial remakes, it seem that Kaplan is not ignorant about the Hmong culture and he does have some basic knowledge- this is what makes it more intrigue. Doesn't anyone see the comparison? Kaplan is not ignorance about his words, he knows what he is saying- what came out of his mouth must come out of his mind first and the word "hmong"; why not African-American, why not Chinese, why not Japanese, why not an ethic that the public would recognize and knows it false when it's a joke? Kaplan needs to research more about hmong if he is to use hmong as an example- "there is no such thing as race, but yet we see racism everywhere."

-Pao Thao
Univ. of Wash. Student

Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 11:14am):

Pao, do you really believe someone like Kaplan believes those comments that been attributed to him? It is unbelievable that Kaplan would say those things as his own beliefs--and I think it is bizarre that students like you simply take it as a fact that he made those claims when Kasia Moua even said last night her email was not well informed.

Kaplan cares about understanding different cultures. I have a much easier time believing Kaplan was misinterpreted and misrepresented than believing the students who have labeled him a racist or ignorant.

Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 12:08pm):

this is not a personal attack, its an opinion!



I was in the class, this is all being taken out of context. If anything he was supporting Hmongs and criticizing Wisconsin failure in incorporating them into Northern WI society. Look at all the talk this has stirred! If anything he's remarks helped bring light to a situation. He is not a racist and his remarks were not racist.

who ever wrote this comment.
"you are an idiot"

Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 12:32pm):

Way to go. (that was completely sarcastic if you couldn't tell) Please get your FACTS straight next time before you ramble off about topics you obviously know nothing about. Nam Dao is NOT Hmong. And how would you have felt if the professor would have said "All BLACK men have no talent other than to kill?"

Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 2:22pm):

How embarrassing that you can't even get your facts right. Don't get too caught up in getting a story out. This is not accurate or of quality. What a great journalist. So this is what the Badger Herald has to offer?

Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 7:11pm):

Nam Dao is not Hmong, how would he know, feel, and stand up for the Hmong population?

Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 10:03pm):

so why are so many hmong teenagers and stuff in gangs?? the answer is because of where they live. which is why so many African Americans, Somali, Mexican, and WHITE Caucasians are in gangs be in gangs... if you go into a public high school in the twin cities, for example, you'll see what i mean - gangsters are not just limited to hmong people. the race of someone does not determine if they are in a gang or not. So the real question is not how many Hmong people are in gangs, it's really HOW MANY AMERICANS ARE IN GANGS??? besides, like what everyone is saying, if you are not hmong you would not know how racism or comments like this would feel. Wisconsin is known to be a RED-NECK state anyways - see what I mean???

Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 10:17pm):

First off, for those who say his words were taken out of CONTEXT, please enlighten us, that's all I ask, stop saying his words were being taken out of context when you don't prove to us that "Hmong men have no other talent but to kill" and his other remarks weren't malicious. Honestly.

Anonymous (March 4, 2007 @ 10:38pm):

nice I love Wisconsin-Madison it's bout the most raciest university in the states

Anonymous (March 5, 2007 @ 11:19am):

There should be freedom in a college level classroom to discuss things, even on racism. But he is a professor, he should have been smart enough, beside this is such a small matter in comparison to the whole that why did he bring it up in the first place without subjecting all the student to some background info. He should be fire for not being a racist. He should be fire for being stupid for a professor.

Anonymous (March 6, 2007 @ 8:47am):

Nam Dao is not a Hmong and he does not know axactly how or what the Hmong feel about what professor Kaplan said about the Hmong. Kaplan has no right to say how the Hmong have sex with their wive. Just as no one say how Kaplan should have sex. The asia culture pay dowry when they married including Vietnamese, Hmong, Lao, Thai,Chinese etc... why didn't he just said in general that in asia parent collect dowry when they daughter married. He single out the Hmong. Kaplan must be very racist toward the Hmong. I would like to hear from Kaplan himself what had the Hmong done to offended him in the past. All ethnics group have good and bad people, why he use the words "the Hmong". Those words offended every Hmong men not just in the United States of America but every corner in the world where there is a Hmong live. In fact we have done a great job to the American government while we were in Laos. our parent and grand parent died so the American don't die. Our parent disable so the American don't have to disable. Kaplan should know that racist could cost very big trouble. Look at the Rodney King case in California years ago when racist occurred on the streets, in the classroom and in the court room. Don't try to use Nam Dao as Kaplan protecting shield. He is not involve in Kaplan comment. He may be sat in Kaplan's class, but he has nothing to do on what Kaplan suppose to say. It's all come out of Kaplan himself. As a hmong person, I am very hurt because I have not kill any one in my life both here in the United States and back in Laos. My children have not joint any gang's group and now they all have practice the normal lives that the majority people in America do. Of course they are people do or did that before, but not only the Hmong people, all ethnic group have some one done that, but we can't use the word that Kaplan use "the Hmong people" I would said Kaplan is very racist if he refuse to aapologize. If what he said was a mistake then he must apologize to both young and adult Hmong as he had slapped our face in front of the classroom.

Anonymous (March 6, 2007 @ 11:41pm):

What if it was about a black and white person??? Whould the situation be the same or different??

Answer me that you idiot!!!

HMONG MEANS FREE!

Anonymous (March 7, 2007 @ 10:00am):

Gerald needs to shut up and get his facts straight before he even starts writing this article! If you dont know who is a Hmong person, do some research and get it right! I am pretty sure your black!

Anonymous (March 7, 2007 @ 9:48pm):

He compares this to the Michael Richards's tirade. He probably has forgotten that Michael Richards was being heckled and said the things in rage. Although I agreed that his apology was questionable at best, people tend to say things that they usually don&#8217;t mean when they&#8217;re pissed off or lose &#8220;control.&#8221; Take Mel Gibson. He was drunk and said that the &#8220;jews started the war.&#8221; However most of us had forgotten about this. On the other hand, the professor was in his classroom, where he felt comfortable, and said these things to a bunch of students who came to learn, not laugh.

Anonymous (March 7, 2007 @ 9:49pm):

Even though this statement seems racist, it seems to me that today, if anybody offended black people, we have to apologize. However, when they offend others of different race (white, Latino, Asian, Native Americans), or someone says some stereotypes about another race and its in the news, it doesn&#8217;t really offend them and writes why do those complaining feel offensive to the comments.

Anonymous (March 9, 2007 @ 9:25am):

come on! yes we know that nam Dao is not hmong, he's veit, can we stop saying that now? How many times do you have to say, "get the facts right!" it was just clearly a mistake. in fact i would like to say that i am hmong. However, i do believe that the hmong community in madison, especially the students are totally just ripping it appart. yes i understand, i did feel a little affended when he stated that comment, however he was just using it as an example of how other people see the hmong community and he really didnt mean it. As of right now, i am really sadden by the fact that the hmong students at madison (one of the smartest hmong students i know) are acting, infact, like immature middle schoolers who say it isnt fair and crying about it. who knows eh? there's alot of hmong students on campus that wants political power and theyre simply just using Kaplan to get press release adn tehir name out in the hmong community as a good leader. however, i would like to say that they're actually being a horrible leader by shredding appart an innocent man who was trying to teach law students that there are alot of ethnicity around that has the same problem. LIKE the hmong example. and this...

"Let's turn the table and say that if Professor Kaplan had said "ALL YOUNG BLACK MEN END UP AS EITHER BLOOD OR CRIP MEMBERS OR IN PRISON. THEY ALL HAVE SEX WITH THEIR BLACK WOMEN AND THEN RUN OFF LEAVING THEIR WOMEN TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES WHILE REFUSING TO BE A FATHER TO THEIR CHILDREN" imagine the outrage we'd have on this campus but since it's about the Hmong, then it's all ok and it's no big deal. Ask yourself, had Professor Kaplan said that about blacks, would you not get offended?"

okay that, yes that of course is the same thing kaplan did. he use the hmong as an example. you can scream, but why hmong? why? why? the thingis that even if he did the same thing with other cultures and color of poeple, it'd still be the same. so i say, every one shut up, and move on. This is a topic that was simply misunderstood, and you're all making big idiots of yourselfs

Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 1:00am):

I am a HMONG student at University of Wisconsin-Madison...Was I offended or affected by any means of what Kaplan said? NO! Why? Because I wasn't there when he said it so I can't comment...is there a chance that he made remarks/statments about the Hmong people? YES!

But I can't be mad or judgemental because like I said earlier...I was not there. And its FREEDOM OF SPEECH...he can say what he wants the say...it is HIS RIGHTS AS AN AMERICAN right?

Why is everyone...especially the Hmong people so mad? I'm Hmong and I'm not mad at all...whatever he said...whether it be derogatory/offensive/racist towards us Hmong...I overlooked it as if it was another obstacle in my life.

So for all the Hmong peeps...stop stressing over this...being mad isn't going to solve anything.

Anonymous (July 25, 2008 @ 2:31pm):

omg! to whoever the person who said that they`re not mad at that kaplin dude and your hmong, then i feel very sorry for you . its a shame that ur hmong and u shouldnt claim that u are. if ur hmong and were not offended by his words, then dont put ur comments here. The truth is,no one understands how it feels until it hits there ethnicity. And to those who are saying that kaplin is not racist, im well aware that you all know those were racist words that came out from a racist mans mouth. And to that nam dao kid, u really dont understand how offended the hmong students are because ur vietnamese and not HMONG!!! Anyhow, i know that if kaplin were to make remarks about how the vietnamese f**** their wives and how it`d be better off for thevietnamese women if the men died then i bet he`d be the first to jump out in a storm. if kaplin is defending himself then he should have gave that example of his own kind. he knows and gerald knows who the REAL GANG BANGERS ARE. Im sorry to say but if kaplin made remarks about his own kind it would have been a better example cause then it`d all be true and he wouldnt have offended anyone...but himself of course. So next time kaplin wants to give examples, make it ur kind!!! And to gerald who wrote the most stupid article ever, writting is certainly not for someone like u. I would advise that u find something that suits the person that u are. To all my hmong people, HMONG PRIDE FOR LIFE!!!!

Anonymous (July 28, 2008 @ 5:50pm):

First of all I have read this and I am a BLACK MAN. AFRICAN AMERICAN. What Kaplan said is racist. He has no rights to speak for all Hmong men. He has no rights to talk such things about their culture when he knows nothing of it.

I am a black man, and I'll say, if he was to give any examples, it should be about us blacks! I live in MN, and wherever there are blacks there's crime. Blacks rape, blacks disobey the law, they roam around the streets, they're bums, they're the number one reasons in America, why crimes are so high...My dad was a drug addict, my mother was a drug addict, my brothers are in gangs and who knows what they do on the streets, my sisters are on welfare, WIC, having babies and not providing for them...And I can say this is the life of most Black people. But I can't say all black people are like this. So Kaplan is a racist man. He's a professor, he should know better than to make all those wrongful accusations of the Hmong men. They are actually hardworking people who are dedicated to their life and family. Something we Blacks will never have. What did Martin Luther King fight so hard for???? And Gerald is a black boy so of course he would defend his people. And plenty of stupid people here say that it was not racist it was Kaplan's opinion. Well, helloooo, that's a racist opinion. Which equals racist Period!

Anonymous (July 28, 2008 @ 5:56pm):

the stupid person who made his stupid anonymous comment at 9:25am..you are an idiot...just because it's an opinion that doesn't mean it's not racist. And for all you fools FREEDOM OF SPEECH, doesn't give you the rights to say whatever you want. It doesn't give you the rights to be talking BS about people and being a racist...Blacks are the ones who only know how to kill, gang bang, rape, and roam the streets like a bunch of hungry animals!

Add a comment

We welcome your thoughts, but please keep your feedback thoughtful, on-topic and respectful. Offensive language, personal attacks, or irrelevant comments may be deleted.

Login...



   Remember me


Not registered? Sign up now.

It's quick, free, and the email address you provide will not be sold or solicited.

...or Post Your Comment Anonymously

Anonymous

Place a shout-out!
Top Classified Ads (view all)

Place your classified ad online and have it show up here. Your ad will hit thousands of viewers a day!

DON'T READ ME! Too late. If you're reading this, guess how many other people are reading it. See... advertising in The Badger Herald does work!

Place a classified ad

Advertising