And then again perhaps it time that America steps up to the plate like Israel. Do you think that a Police Officer is safer because he's in uniform ... NOT. He's safer and able to counter life threatening situations because he's armed. Same would apply to our teachers. They would not, as you put it, be "gun-flailing teachers". They would be trained to shoot and therefore have a proven level of capability.

You then ask and answer "Had the principal in Cazenovia had a gun, would the situation have ended differently? I imagine that if this were the case, the situation would have had an even worse ending than it actually did." It could have ended better too, but we'll never know. If ALL the teachers along with the principle would have been armed and knowingly so, the deterent probability would have taken its' place.

Then you say about Isreal and Thailand "Both countries use armed faculty members as deterrents against terrorists, not potential gun-toting students." WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TERRORISTS AND A GUN-TOTING STUDENT? There is none.

Deterence is the best policy and armed teachers would be a very good one ... I'd rather have my kids in a school with armed teachers instead of armed students any day.

I believe I'm much safer, as is my family, when I'm armed.

r/
Safe and secure in Middle America.

Wow. That last post exemplifies almost everything that's wrong with the "more guns = less violence" mentality. This person honestly believes that training our nation's teachers on how to wield firearms in schools will make them safer. What are the teachers going to do, wear a holster on their hips while they teach algebra or discuss the evils of the Nazi regime? What about the possibility that a student in school somehow overpowers the teacher and TAKES the gun from the teacher? Now you've just armed the so-called "terrorists."

This poster honestly believes that there is no fundamental difference between a radical terrorist who kills out of ideological and religious beliefs and a hurt, depressed, and emotionally tormented student shunned by his peers who see no other way out. But maybe he's right and we SHOULD just declare a "war on students," arm all our teachers, and have them draw their firearm at any deranged and outcast student they suspect of "packing heat." I'm sure that'll solve the problem of violence in schools. And I'm sure it won't create a hostile environment or an environment of fear over a public institution that is supposed to EDUCATE, not intimidate.

Sure, it may make the casual outcast and disgruntled student think twice about bringing a gun to school and "getting even" with everyone who has wronged him in the past, but lets face it, it isn't these casual outcasts that are perpetrating these horrific crimes. No, these kids are the ones who have been subjected to a lifetime of ridicule and taunting by their peers for being "different." They may have deep-seated psychological problems. A young, confused student who feels he is at the end of his rope and is willing to die to get revenge -- this is the kind of student who would walk in and shoot his fellow teachers and classmates. You honestly believe that someone who feels that kind of rejection by society is going to be deterred by his teacher toting a gun? No, he's going to smuggle a gun in himself, or walk up to the front of the class and knock his teacher out to try and wrest the firearm away from the instructor. He's going to bring AK-47s through the metal detectors and start shooting right then and there in the lobby of the school.

My point is that nothing short of a military presence (and in some cases not even that) would stop the most deranged and depraved of these kids. In short, if a kid feels enough hatred for the society that has shunned him, he WILL find a way to take his revenge. Adding more guns in such a situation will only make such a situation MORE volatile and dangerous.

So, then, what is the solution? It lies in this article. Education. Tolerance. Empathy. Therapy. Parental guidance. Discussion.

But these things take time, and they are difficult. And sure, there will always be taunting and hate and intolerance in our schools. But the key is to have positive learning environments and positive households in which to discuss and address student feelings, not create a war zone in our schools where faculty patrol the halls, pistol in hand, ready to pull the trigger at the first sign of violence or escalation.

Sure, you might not catch every troubled student early when they are just unhappy and depressed and before they take their rage out on the world, but at the very least you won't be creating an environment around them where such actions are understood and even CONDONED as necessary evils within our societies.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be hoping you don't accidentally shoot a young student or perceived "terrorist" because you were too quick to make a judgment about their intention to harm you. Have you ever seen the movie "Crash" (the 2004 version, not the 1996 one)? If not, you should watch it and watch the scene where Ryan Phillipe shoots a hitchhiker he just picked up because he judges his intentions wrongly. Sure, I'm stretching the events of a movie to apply to real life, but this particular scene has some merit to it. Please consider such a horrific and regrettable occurrence as one that can be avoided, but NOT by the inclusion of more guns. Imagine the same scene without Ryan Phillipe's character having a gun. The worst that might happen in such a case is a fistfight or a stabbing before one person or the other realized their error. Can you honestly imagine such a scenario as being solved in a more peaceful way with guns? I hope not, for the sake of our entire society.

Potato - potato (you know the saying). You're on one side and I'm on the other. Your side sees a kid with a gun trying to kill their peers and teachers as someone who needs to be educated ... I see them as the murderer they have chosen to become and would rather have them laying on the floor vice 5-15 others. Is it terrible, YES! Taking a human life is nothing that I want to do, but will if and when necessary. It's part of my job, to protect people just like you and just like the kids with the guns ... until it's time to act differently -as FORCED by the actions of those that would step outside the bounds of normal sanity and social compliance. No one forces them to pick up the weapon, march to school and fire away. But when they do, they need to be stopped and the earlier the better.
You also state "... it isn't these casual outcasts that are perpetrating these horrific crimes." Sure it is, it's always the causal outcasts. Look at each and every school shooting ... 1 or 2 who think they are exactly as you state - it's not the norm, thank God. Then you say "A young, confused student who feels he is at the end of his rope and is willing to die to get revenge -- this is the kind of student who would walk in and shoot his fellow teachers and classmates." I agree. But you go on to say "You honestly believe that someone who feels that kind of rejection by society is going to be deterred by his teacher toting a gun? He's going to bring AK-47s through the metal detectors and start shooting right then and there in the lobby of the school." Again, I couldn't agree more, the murderer is going to get in. But, that's when every weapon under the control of the staff needs to come to bear on the murderer and stop the murder and any other killing as soon as possible. The gun is a tool; some choose to use it incorrectly and have to pay the price.
I agree with your last comment too "I'll be hoping you don't accidentally shoot a young student or perceived "terrorist" because you were too quick to make a judgment about their intention to harm you." Funny you should say that. I pray that same thing every time I put my weapon on ... I literally pray every time that I'm given the wisdom and judgment to ensure that that I don't take anyone's life without full justification and cause. But be assured that if and when someone tries to take someone else's life, maybe even yours, if I'm the officer on the scene - the bad guy is going out in a body bag and you are going out to your family.
In response to your last question, yes. I imagine every scenario as being resolved peacefully and some are BECAUSE of my weapon.

v/r

Still Safe and Secure in Middle America

Ok, so you're a police officer. I will start by stating my admiration toward those who protect and serve our society by putting their lives at risk each and everyday. Yours is a difficult and oftentimes thankless job that I could not respect more.

Sure, sometimes deadly force is needed when an individual crosses the line. Such deadly force is required in order to prevent the loss of MORE life. In such an instance, the ends certainly justify the means. Indeed, I agree with much of your comment -- there is no difference between a lunatic killer intent on taking human lives, or a confused teenager shunned by society if they have a gun in their hand and they are threatening others. In these regrettable instances, officers of the law oftentimes have no other choice and NOT see the background of what may have CAUSED such an individual to become so deranged. If officials hesitate and think of a threatening person as anything less than a threat, they risk losing their own lives or the lives of countless others.

So we agree, such an attitude is required oftentimes. What we disagree on, again, is that the student who shoots his classmates did so through a completely individual choice. Sure, the day he walks into the school, he has made a choice and should be held accountable for it. But it is short-sighted and wrong to think of that choice as occuring in a vacuum. Did the shunned student CHOOSE to have his peers and classmates endlessly ridicule him because he was "different?" Did he choose to live a life as an outcast, or did the people around him make that choice for him? Was he born with mental issues, or was that a choice he consciously made while he was growing up? Did he choose to grow up in a broken or unloving home with parents who do not look out for his best interests, or, worse yet, parents who are divorced and selfish? So, no, no one single person FORCED such a teen to pick up a gun and "get even." Instead, perhaps decades of abuse CREATED circumstances that made such a kid see no other way out.

But of course once he picks up a firearm and begins shooting he must be stopped. I'm not arguing with you there. But you see only the end result -- the product of the abuse -- you choose not to address the abuse and circumstances that CAUSE people to become what they are. Its easy to say we all should be armed so we can protect ourselves and others from threats. Its much harder to address (and then perhaps allievate) the factors that CAUSE people to become maniacs and resort to such drastic actions.

Besides, who's to say that if you allowed teachers to be armed, any would ACTUALLY want to carry handguns? Sure, some might, but I'd like to think most teachers would refuse, based on the correct belief that hate just breeds more hate, and violence begets more violence. How many teachers would honestly care to threaten and scare students they care so much about educating and cultivating into upstanding members of society?

But it is NOT the casual outcasts that perpetrate these crimes. If it were, there would be thousands of school shootings each month. How many students can honestly say that they have never been made fun of, never been so angry at one of their peers that they wanted to punch them, or felt as if they had no friends in the world? THESE are the casual outcasts. These kids feel cast aside and perhaps think fleetingly about taking revenge, but if they were raised correctly by their parents, have been properly educated by people around them, and grew up around a society that is not permeated by guns, they will push aside those feelings and come to their senses. But if that same student is surrounded by firearms and the threat of violence EVERYDAY in his educational institution, you don't think that he will begin to believe guns are an acceptable and neccessary way to solve problems?

Giving ordinary citizens guns (rather than arming professionals such as yourself) is a recipe for disaster. Sure, they would attend classes and be properly educated on how to use them. But everyone is different. Everyone sees each situation in a different light. What you might view (through years of field experience and training) as a kid who is just scared and would NEVER shoot the hostage he is hiding behind might appear to another person as a raging lunatic who is GOING to kill, no matter what, and must be stopped through deadly force. Why give unprofessionals guns instead of entrusting the few, trained, and amazingly brave in our society to protect at all costs?

And what of the disgruntled teacher who has had enough of the taunting by his unruly students and draws his assigned firearm and kills his students? Are you telling me that isn't a possibility? I wish that were the case: I wish our society was better than that. But it is a possibility.

"Violence begets more violence?"

Just what the dead Rwandans, Bosnians, and even Holocaust victims must have thought.

"We are getting exterminated because we were too violent."

You are also assuming that the "unprofessionals" do not have the same training as your beloved "professionals." Would these "unprofessionals" include private security guards? Former active duty military people with combat experience? Former police officers who went to law school and changed careers?

The patchouli is sufficating . . .