Well Fayyad, I think you will have the jews rather pissed with this one. lol I appreciated one very good point you make — jews have managed to tie criticism of isreal to anti semitism…but let’s expand on that and admit the only reason “israel” exists is because of guilt over the “holocaust.”

Zionism is the national liberation movement of the Jewish people. It liberated hundreds of thousands of Jews from the second class citizenship, dhimmi status, under which Jews and Christians are still forced to live in Muslim lands. It aimed in returning Jews to the Jewish homeland. Jews are indigenous to Judea, the land of Israel. Jews lived there from about 1200 BCE (when archaeology shows that the Jewish people emerged, an indigenous people) There were still large Jewish communities in the land of Israel whne the Muslims rode in as imperial conquerers. The archaeological record shows cynagogues taken over and converted to mosques with the addition of mihrab after the conquest. What goes around comes around, Fayyad. Jews are an indigenous people returning to their land. Arabs are conquerers. Jews have the right to live in the Jewish homeland.

The reason why people tend to call you an anti-Semite, is that you wish to deny exclusively to the Jews the right to the national aspiration to have a nation state in their homeland that you grant to other peoples.

It was your full-time, paid position as an operative for anti-Israel groups like the PFLP that “kept you from your course work?” Not what I’ve heard. My understanding is that you were sent to Madison by the PFLP to pretend to be a student so that you could work full-time to destory the Jewish State.

What if the Palestinians put the money they pay people like Fayyad to do political anti-Israel work in Madison into building an economy?

What if they put just half the effort the waste building bombs into building a civil society?

Fayyad, is your brain capable of functionality in any other capacity besides bashing Jews and Israel? The Arabs lost, the Jews won and that settles it. Don’t think that you’re gonna get any tea and sympathy by writing this crap!

Fayyad, I’ve argued over the past year against your idiocy and your lies, but at this point there isn’t much more to say. Like so many other (perhaps less articulate) Arab fanatics, you simply aren’t going to win this battle. So fuck off and die.

” In ChE, this proved problematic.”

It wouldn’t be problematic if you were any good at it. Chemistry and Chemical Engineering are easy.

I don’t know how easy a major ChE is, but it is plain that Fayyad is not very brigth, certainly not bright enough to employ logic.

Proposition, the Palestinian nation deserves sovereignty.

Corollary, the Jews natin also deserves sovereignty.

and as for charging anyone who can see that what we have are two national liberation movements, each entitled to some recognition with being “morally bankrupt”

Only the intellectually bankrupt could say so.

I hope you paid attention in some classes. After all, a ChE major should be useful back home making bombs with the PFLP to murder innocent children in pizza restaurants.

typical palistinian/arab tactics… GOING OUT WITH A BANG! lol

yeah, this was truly an “explosive” piece!

if israel acted as it is accused of being, and committed genocide on the fertility worshipers aka “palestinians,” then maybe you could compare it to south africa, bosnia, or darfur. those are places where hundreds of thousands were slaughtered. no doubt, israel has the military might and motivation to purge “palestinians” from its land. however, they just don’t have the cruelty or lack of compassion to do it. so, lay off the “holocaust” comparisons of jewish aggression. it’s a well known fact that israel painstakingly risks its own soldiers lives to preserve “palestinian” life…otherwise, there would be no more “palestinians” left because they would be bombed into the desert…except for in jordan, where they constitute a majority of the population, but live in worse conditions than under israeli rule. by the way, is it a coincidence that fayyad majored in “che?” as in che the commie? as in yet another link between lefties, commies, and terrorists?

Wow, that person was aggresive and opinionated. Let’s train our kids from day one to love death and fear the gut-robbing Jews. Let’s tell them in infancy that if it weren’t for the money-grubbing, murduring Jews, that we would live not in a sand castle or teepee, but in a palace like Saddam used to. Then, when the infants reach kindergarden age, we can dress them up in suicide bombing equipment and tell them how they can share the same 72 virgins with the millions of other martyrs that have killed the horned and tailed, blood drinking, greedy Jews. Then, we can finally live in peace. That is until we rub shoulders with any other different religion such as hindus, christians, tribal africans, or even other brands of moslems. For one thing is certain. Every region of this world that neighbors moslems has violence. Could it be the religion of “submission?” Oops, I mean, religion of peace.

Speaking of terrorists, I’ve always been curious of why so many folks who support the Palestinian cause aren’t protesting Hamas, Hezbollah and al-Quaeda for brainwashing other people’s kids into blowing themselves up to kill others. I have honestly never seen any effort on the part of activists to confront these wacko terrorists for the crap they do.

OK, so Israel is wrong for tearing down Palestinian homes just because one member of the family was brainwashed into thinking that they would be revered for committing mass murder. So Israel is wrong for allowing settlements to be built on what is clearly Palestinian land. But that’s fighting only half the battle. There are plenty of bad guys on BOTH sides of the conflict. Broadswording one side completely while totally ignoring the shenanigans going down on the other side doesn’t make sense.

Until viable becomes more reasonable and mutually acceptable, nothing will be accomplished. As far as I’m concerned, Fayyad and all others who think like him have nothing constructive to offer. He is clearly biased. A person of his intellectual stature should know better.

So, over the past few moths, Fayyad Sbaihat Jets around the country to organize cro-Palestinian, anti-Israel conferences at Duke University and others, travels to participate in panels and give talks to spread his hateful propaganda, and on top of that, manages to get divestment resolutions out of UW-Platteville faculty senate, TAA, and TAUWP, while in chemical engineering, the hardest undergraduate major on campus.

I’m starting to think that he is paid by hte PFLP to do this full time work.

“…but let’s expand on that and admit the only reason “israel” exists is because of guilt over the “holocaust.”“

Citizen, it is much more than guilt. It is simply the right thing to do. After six million of your own people are rounded up and systematically murdered, SIX COUNT-EM-ALL MILLION, you’d want your own country too! As for the Palestinians, they weren’t the first ones to live in Israel, and they helped the British keep as many Jewish refugees out as possible. Damn straight Isreal has a right to exist. If Israel doesn’t, then it’s high time Native Americans got all their land back from all us ex-Europeans. And let’s give California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas back to Mexico while we’re at it. Still have a problem with reality, do ya?

“And let’s give California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas back to Mexico while we’re at it.”

No worries mate, La Reconquista will take those lands back. The invasion has been proceding for years while the politicians on doth sides turn a blind eye. Any opposition to illegal immigration is imediately labeled racist and shouted down.

six million now? that number goes up every year

“six million now? that number goes up every year”

How do you figure? That’s been the number since the late 1940s.

Six million is the accurate number.

More importantly, the holocaust proved that the only way to protect Jewish lives is for Jews to have a homeland where they can defend themselves.

It’s a little naive to expect anti-Israel activists of Fayyad’s ilk to criticize Palestinian bad behavior equally with Israeli bad behavior. Fayyad is on the side of terrorism, his organizaitons Al Awda and Palestine Solidaritym Movement are openly in favor of terror bombing.

One of the differences between the Israeli and Palestinian/Arab positions is that Israel has an active politicl scens where everyone from radical left to far right is represented, and many organized voices criticize the government. Organized Jewish groups even advoacate for the dismantlement of the Jewish State.

There is no equivalent on the Arab Palestinian side. Why?

Because when Palestinians speak up in sympathy with Jews, or on behalf of peace, they are brutally silenced.

what palestinian would ever support a jew

The best thing about the end of Fayyad’s 4 years at UW… is that hopefully he will be gone. Most likely to end up blowing himself up either making a bomb or hoping to find 72 Arab virgins (does he count as one)….. are there any left?

I doubt he’s going anywhere. He’ll probably spend the summer here organzing the Palestine soldiarity movement conference in madison so he can bring his follow paid PFLP activists together.

So, how is it that he’s been here for four years, but always been a senior?

Che the commie, hehe, that’s a good one, it would be awesome if every one chose a major based on how the acronym sounds.

Maybe he’ll have to stay around and keep taking the salary from the PFLP. After all, who else would hire a guy on record in support of suicide bombers? Like, we don’t have chemichal engineering firms that stupid.

There’s a petition to ask UW to deny space to the terrorism-supporting conference Fayyad is plaining fro Madison in Oct. posted at : http://www.petitiononline.com/stopPSM/petition.html

Nah, he won’t be getting a job anywhere, he does not even need one. Seems to me like this guy is living large off of his terrorist salary, he has his own apartment on Langdons St, he drives a BMW (for some reason a car of choice for Palestinians), and he is out clubbing every night witha new girl. I really don’t think he cares about Palestine or what happenes to it, he’s happy to do this work for the money.

Does he truly drive a BMW? What model? Does anyone have a photo posted somewhere.

Who knew being a political hack for terrorists paid so well?

Maybe we should all quit school and just sign up to shill for Hamas and Islamic Jihad like Fayyad.

funny how terrorists hate western civilization, but they love all of its luxuries. tap water, mass produced clothing instead of rags and blankets, electricity, metalurgy, computers, cars, steel buildings, accessible food, cell phones…come to think of it, if it weren’t for evil christian westerners, that black gold they have under them would simply be black goopy liquid that they couldn’t drink or swim in, in the middle of the sandworld. yea, that would be helpful to them. instead they hate us for trying to use their resources while giving them the only capital they could ever hope of earning.

That’s so not true, think of the glassware that could come out of the sandy land.

BMW on langdon? Maybe he’s a closet coastie jew

Fayyad is not a terrorist. He is a paid, full-time PR flack who works for terrorists.

I still hate his shirt.

Fayyad may have real ambition!. After all, Arafat ended up a VERY rich man. Doesn’t his widow get a 20 million dollar a year allowance?

“Imagine if the KGB could have sent agents into the US with the promise of paid college credit and US college degrees during the height of the Cold War and you get a picture of what the Davis-Putter Scholarship Fund means to do. Fayyad Sbaihat, the head of the Palestine Solidarity Movement, who according to Israeli security sources, has an entire family that has links to the terrorist group the Popular Front For The Liberation of Palestine has been a professional Palestinian “student” organizer for years arranging national conferences all over US and Canadian campuses. Now, thanks to Davis-Putter the PLO can import as many Fayyad Sbaihats as it wants to US college campuses and, just to make sure they do a good job and have incentive, they can earn a US college degree to boot plus receive a stipend.” —Lee Kaplan, Scholarships For Terror

http://64.233.167.104/custom?q=cache:Bea6C3tJyGYJ:www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp%3FID%3D17630+sbaihat&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

I for one will miss Fayyed. His writings gave us all an inside look into the hate-mongering ideals that permeate much of the middle east. I would also like to thank all who intelligently posted to rebut the propaganda he has written. As he himself has stated, many are ignorant or more kindly put, lack knowledge in this area and your postings have done a great job in presenting the other side where Fayyed himself lacks knowledge. Thanks again.

DJ

i just think it is funny to see how many ignorant and intolerant comments result from one fayyad sbaihat article. almost everyone who posted a comment on here owes it to themselves to make a muslim/arab or jewish friend and open your minds. fayyad presents one invaluable side of a story that must be understood entirely to find a viable solution.

Palestinians arrest, then free Hamas men

May 3, 7:25 AM (ET)

By Nidal al-Mughrabi

GAZA (Reuters) - Palestinian police, enforcing a ceasefire with Israel, arrested two men from a suspected Hamas rocket squad after a gun battle in the Gaza Strip but freed the militants soon after, officials said on Tuesday.

Commenting on the release, Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said Israeli-Palestinian reconciliation could succeed only if the Palestinian Authority mounted a “continuous, ongoing effort against the terrorists.”

“If we start seeing a revolving door, as we saw in the past … this would not be a good sign,” Regev said, alluding to Israeli complaints that Palestinian authorities under the late Yasser Arafat released suspected militants too quickly.

Hamas said the pair detained in the northern Gaza Strip were not planning to fire rockets but confirmed that they were armed — defying a recent order that only Palestinian security forces should carry weapons on the streets.

The clash late on Monday was the first between Palestinian police and militants since Arafat’s successor, President Mahmoud Abbas, ordered an “iron fist” crackdown on April 28. Rocket fire into Israel has become much rarer but it has not stopped.

News of the incident, which coincided with renewed calls by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for Abbas to disarm militants to meet the terms of the U.S.-backed peace “road map,” sent tension soaring in Gaza, Hamas’s main powerbase.

Palestinian Interior Ministry spokesman Toufiq Abu Khoussa said the men were let go on Tuesday following intervention by an Egyptian official in Gaza.

In return for their freedom, the two militants, promised to abide by an agreement that militant factions reached with Abbas in Cairo in March to respect the ceasefire the Palestinian leader declared along with Sharon in February, Abu Khoussa said.

GUNFIGHT

Describing the clash, Abu Khoussa said, a third militant had escaped arrest: “The three were in a car, en route to fire rockets, when police waved for them to stop. Gunmen opened fire at the police, forcing policemen to fire back.

“Policemen controlled the situation, took away the car, arrested the gunmen and took away their arms,” he said, adding that the third man ran away and avoided the police.

A Palestinian security official said police found rockets in the vehicle.

The Hamas gunmen accused the police of opening fire first and said there was no plan to launch rockets. Another militant group, Islamic Jihad, said it carried out a rocket attack on Israel from nearby shortly before the Hamas men were arrested.

Hamas, which is sworn to destroying Israel, said it was committed to “maintaining calm” and accused the Palestinian Authority of trying to curry favor with Washington at the expense of local unity.

Israel rejects Abbas’s approach that it is better to use persuasion than force to get the militants to stop attacks. Sharon has refused to hold peace negotiations until the militant Palestinian factions have been dismantled.

Abbas has pledged to ensure quiet during Israel’s planned withdrawal from settlements in the Gaza Strip this summer to end 38 years of occupation. The pullout has been hailed as a possible step toward reviving peace negotiations.

http://reuters.excite.com/article/20050503/2005-05-03T112508Z01N03227710R TRIDST0_INTERNATIONAL-MIDEAST-DC.html

Fayyad is on record in support of suicide bombing and other forms of terrorism directed against Israeli Jews.

What is the point of “making friends” with someone who wants to kill my cousins purely because they were born Israeli? Why would I want to make freinds with someone who has sworn and publicized his intention to kill me?

First, Fayyad needs to repudiate his commitment to destroy Israel in order to install a Palestinian government “From the River to the Sea.” When he and other Palestinians are as ready to accept Israel, as Israelis are to accept the 22 Arab Muslim states that now exist in the world, we can have peace.

I’m sorry, I’m “misinformed”? “Morally bankrupt”?

Tell me, Fayyad, what happened when the Palestinian spokesperson Saeb Erekat claimed on April 17, 2002, that the Israeli army massacred 500 civilians in Jenin, and repeated that claim a few days later while adding that he would be the first person to publicly admit he was wrong if Amnesty International, the UN, and the Red Cross demonstrated that he was wrong? What happened after all three organizations confirmed that the number of dead was more like 20, and that each was a heavily armed combatant (better known as a terrorist)? Erekat still claims that 500 civilians were killed.

And why is it that Al-Hayat al-Jadeeda printed on May 15, 1997, that Israel infects Palestinians with the HIV virus? You know that’s not true either, so by any reasonable standard, the claim is slanderous. And since its intent is to incite genocidal hatred, I don’t understand how you can call me “misinformed” or “morally bankrupt” without directing even stronger and much more deserved epithets at the Palestinian newswriters in question.

And more recently, just last week (April 28), the official Palestinian news agency, WAFA, claimed that Israel uses a radiation machine at checkpoints to spy on Palestinians and that said device killed a 55 year old Palestinian woman. Never mind that the “device” in question is actually a non-intrusive radio wave device, used to detect weapons hidden under clothes (and don’t even try to tell me Palestinians don’t do that — it’s one of the first things they teach the small proportion of their population stupid enough and hateful enough to become a terrorist in the first place) without resorting to physical contact. The device is used to preserve modesty (for example, so that a Palestinian woman would not have to be physically searched by a male Israeli soldier, thus respecting the cultural and religious sensibilities of the person being searched) and reduce the risk of physical confrontation between Israeli soldiers and people passing through checkpoints. So the Palestinian press gets to tell the boldest of lies and effectively incite violence against innocent Israelis, but you think the defenders of Israel are “misinformed” and “morally bankrupt”?

You make me sick. We’ll all be better off without your bullshit polluting our environment next year.

Kol ode balevav P’nimah Nefesh Yehudi homiyah Ulfa’atey mizrach kadimah Ayin l’tzion tzofiyah Ode lo avdah tikvatenu Hatikvah bat shnot alpayim: L’hiyot am chofshi b’artzenu Eretz Tzion v’Yerushalayim

Fayyad, I’m pretty sure you once worked as a bellhop at the Waldorf Astoria back in 1988. That face is unmistakably familiar!

Without getting inot the particulars of a terrible politicla situation I can say this: Jews deserve their own country, but putting it in the middle of the place in the world that has hated them most for thousands of years seeme like a dumb idea to me.

I understand it is Jewish holy land, but it was Germany that committed the genocide. If anyone should have lost their land to a Jewish sate it should have been Germany.

It was a poor decision to take away one people’s land so that we could solve the problem of another. Two wrongs don’t make a right and this is why this situation will continue to go on until everyone is dead.

“I can say this: Jews deserve their own country, but putting it in the middle of the place in the world that has hated them most for thousands of years seeme like a dumb idea to me.”

Hey idiot, Israel has ALWAYS been a Jewish homeland. Christians and Muslims overran it for nearly 2000 years. In 1948 it became the Jewish state it once was. Learn some history, plowboy!

“Fayyad is on record in support of suicide bombing and other forms of terrorism directed against Israeli Jews. “

Show me the record, a creadible source, do you have any?

“Show me the record, a creadible source, do you have any?”

How about from the horse’s ass’s mouth himself? Search through the BH archives and it won’t take you long to find where Fayyad said he supported suicide bombing. Also, these conferences he’s been organizing have as part of their platform that suicide bombings and terrorism against Israeli Jews are righteous.

“Show me the record, a creadible source, do you have any?”

How about Fayyad claiming that Ariel Sharon is responsible for killing Israelis through Palestinian terrorist bombings?

http://badgerherald.com/oped/2004/01/30/bombinginjerusalem.php

In that same article, Fayyad claims that the “incursion” in question was unprovoked. He completely ignores the events of January 14, when members of Hamas strapped an explosive belt to the body a young Palestinian mother, who then entered an Israeli checkpoint and blew herself up, murdering four border guards and wounding Jews and Arabs alike. Hamas publicly celebrated this despicable act.

Imagine if a terrorist group sent a suicide bomber to kill American border guards at one of the crossings into the US. Imagine that the bomber succeeded in his or her task and murdered American citizens protecting our border. Imagine that our government knew exactly where to find the terrorists who planned the attack, and also knew they were planning more attacks. Imagine that the terrorists were just across the border in Canada, but the Canadian government refused to do anything to stop them.

I’m sure there are many people on this campus who think such a situation would not justify an attack by US soldiers on the terrorists, but those people lack the good sense God gave most of us. Those of us with more sense would be pissed off if our government didn’t kill all the terrorists, just as we’re pissed off that BushCo still haven’t found Osama bin Laden after almost four years. And if you think I’m wrong, you’re welcome to take a trip to the Middle East and see firsthand what the real situation is.

The Palestinian groups Fayyad supports are terrorists. If there concerns were really about justice, they wouldn’t launch attacks with bombs, they would use guns. Palestinian terrorists could then specifically target the people they allege to be oppressing them, Israeli soldiers, rather than murdering indiscriminately. But the fact is that Palestinian terrorists use bombs because they simply don’t care who they kill. Why should they? They know that most people either hate Jews enough or are too stupid to know better than to assign blame to anyone other than the sons of whores and pigs who commit such murderous acts.

Hey idiot, Israel has ALWAYS been a Jewish homeland. Christians and Muslims overran it for nearly 2000 years. In 1948 it became the Jewish state it once was. Learn some history, plowboy!”

Just because a people lived in a country thousands of years ago doesn’t mean that they deserve a country there. By your logic we should all leave the US to the Native Americans and go back to our countries of origin since it is their homeland and we have overrun it.

You’re the idiot. A Jewish homeland in Europe would have made a lot more sense. How does it make any sense to punish the Palestinians for what the Germans did in WWII? I’de be pretty pissed if they turned Wisconsin over to the Kurds because Saddam Hussein gassed them. It doesn’t make the gassing rigt, but nor does it justify taking away other people’s land. And you certainly gotta expect that the people who you are displacing are pissed.

Israel is a massive human rights debacle. The terrorists are thugs, but that doesn’t make what Israel does right.

But don’t dare criticize israel…or you will be branded an anti-semite as they hide behind the holocaust.

Fayyad’s support for terrorism:

Fayyad was co-chair of the Palestine Solidarity Movement National Coference at Duke in Oct. 2004. the PSM has a plank in its “principles” endorsing suicide bombing and terrorism generally as a legitimate “tactic” and “strategy.”

There was a proposal on the floor to remove the plank and condemn terroriam

It was voted down to loud applause.

Fayyad is also a leader of the more radical Al Awda, a gorup that does not even bother to couch its outright support for terrorism in mealy-mouthed language.

I always thought Fayyed was Jewish. Guess not!

“But don’t dare criticize israel…or you will be branded an anti-semite as they hide behind the holocaust.”

Uh, I believe it’s people like you who are doing the hiding.

“How does it make any sense to punish the Palestinians for what the Germans did in WWII?”

Hey historically-ignorant moron, The Palestinians were being punished for what they did to Jewish refugees after WWII. They and the British were trying to keep Jewish refugees out. Their efforts were all rooted in centuries-old Jew-hatred.

“Does he truly drive a BMW? What model? Does anyone have a photo posted somewhere.”

An X5, I think, it’s an SUV, he has a silver one that looks brand new. Dunno of a picture, but he lives on LAngdon, it’s easy to spot him leaving his apartment, stock him to the car and take a pic, that would some scandal for the PSM, ha? Or get a few pics of him in a club with alcohol and chicks, that would make him loose his Saudi funding.

So if you try to migrate to a country, as a refugee, and you don’t feel too welcome, you take over the country, drive it’s population out, ethinicly cleanse it, destroy villages, kill people, and declare your own state over the land in a matter of weeks?

Assuming that what you say was true. But it is not, Palestinians welcomed the Jews, because they felt sympathy to what was visitied up on them in Germany, they took them in and allowed many htousands to settle. Little did the unsuspecting Palestinians know that these immegrants were mostly terrioris-organized, run-away from the law in Europe, arriving with massive weapon caches, and had a long planned startegy of stealing the land from its owners, ethnicly cleans it, and decalre thier own state.

The US turned away Jewish immegrant ships off of its coasts, Palestine never did.

When I say show me a record, I don’t mean your analysis, moron. About Sharon, that is Fayyad’s analysis, show me a qoute where he supports terrorists. And the other post about he PSM and AL Awda, show me the exact text that supports terroists, from their websites or mission statements, not from some zionists weblog.

“Little did the unsuspecting Palestinians know…”

So over a thousand years of the Jews saying “Next year in Jerusalem” wasn’t enough of a clue?

Why are there so many palis living in Jordan? Why can’t palis living there give their land to their children when they die?Why don’t other A-rab nations extend an olive branch to their fellow A-rabs and invite them to their A-rab dominated countries? Oh yea, they hate the “road pasta palis” and just want to use them as a tool to murder jews and sway public opinion. Didn’t rich A-rab land owners sell parts of swamp-ridden Israel to the jews because they thought the land was worthless? Aren’t jews also known as “israelites?” Where is “israel” again?

BREAKING NEWS

from al-reuters 12:23pm 5/6/05

This morning, hundreds of American provided jets, tanks, and shells zoomed into “occupied territories” and obliterated every shred of “Palestinian” land. Saeb Erekat, was in Jerusalem meeting with Ariel Sharon at the time and might be one of a few thousand remaining Palestinians. The rest, have been brutally slaughtered by the Israeli war machine that has been fortified for decades by the Americans. Abdul Muhammad Malik Abu Zabu Ishmael, a Palestinian “businessman” said that, “finally the world has undeniable proof of Israeli aggression and inhumanity.” He went on to suggest that pinpoint attacks on Hamas leaders who positioned themselves near schools and hospitals to ramp up civilian casualties, paled in comparison to the latest Israeli tactics. “We thought that killing shieks and bulldozing homes that raised suicide bombers was worthy of condemnation, but finally the Israelis deserve some real bloodshed. It’s too bad all the Palestinians in Gaza, and the West bank have perished.” Later, fighting back tears of joy for his martyred brethren, he suggested that he didn’t know how to fight back. “For years, we have targeted Jewish teenagers, and women at pizza shops and discoteques for their hienous crimes against us. Some suggested that our acts were too aggressive and heartless, now where are those people?”

gee, that’s sad. i guess the israelis really are commiting war crimes…i never thought they were until that story.

i hear jews aren’t real popular in france these days

Or ever! Then again, the French don’t like too many people…they hate the English, Spanish, Germans, Americans…In fact, I think you have to be a small pretty country in the carribean or africa to draw their attention. Either that, or invade them with panzer tanks, or an influx of muslims…then they love you.

“So if you try to migrate to a country, as a refugee…The US turned away Jewish immegrant ships off of its coasts, Palestine never did.”

Wrong. The Palestinians AND the British didn’t want ANY Jewish refugees. And the Palestinians became marginalized because they tried to drive Jewish refugees from Israel. The British, for their part, were simply forced to leave. Also, those Jewish refugees weren’t wanted criminals in the sense that they did anything wrong, only that they were to be exterminated by the Nazis as part of Hitler’s racial purification program. And they did not arrive in Israel with massive weapons caches either, bonehead. They arrived with practically nothing. Whatever military armaments they needed they either had to capture from the British or they were smuggled in from sympathetic countries, which didn’t happen until after Israel officially became a state.

Look, you can write your own little distortion of Middle-East history if you want, but there are those who have actually studied Middle-East history and know significantly more than you. Your only hope is that people who don’t know any better will blindly trust your word. As for the rest of us who did research on the subject, we will always be waiting for liars like you. Get used to it.

BREAKING NEWS

from al-reuters 12:23pm 5/6/05

This morning, hundreds of American provided jets, tanks, and shells zoomed into “occupied territories” and obliterated every shred of “Palestinian” land…

I checked Reuters news page thoroughly and no such event is taking place. The only thing happening there is a Palestinian election, with Fatah leading and Hamas gaining a few seats. The Israelis aren’t even tripping!

Do you honestly take all us readers for idiots?!

“Then again, the French don’t like too many people…they hate the English, Spanish, Germans, Americans…”

And NO ONE likes the French! Remember that.

the only readers that are idiots are the ones that took that little article as truth. Catch the sarcasm. Come on people, think when you read.

“And NO ONE likes the French!”

Some in Europe still remember a guy they called “Boney” who led large groups of Frenchmen in a campagn of rape and pillage that lasted for many years. They were feared warriors. I guess all those genes were culled from the French gene pool, seems that cheese- eating surrender monkeys are all that are left.

somebody actually went to al-reuters to look for the story! lmao. no, it was a mockery of the minimal amount of israeli aggression compared to what it could be given the palestinian’s reliance on terror. moreover, it mocks those who declare israel to be a war-mongering state with a wake up call that israel could be much more deadly if it weren’t a peace loving nation.

“somebody actually went to al-reuters to look for the story! lmao.”

Well, it was hard to tell if you were just joking. I’ll just take it that you WERE joking and leave it at that.

the story had subtle pro-israeli views, clearly not al-reuters material… also, didn’t this give it away? “Abdul Muhammad Malik Abu Zabu Ishmael, a Palestinian “businessman””

or, the complete absurdity of the story in general? and isn’t the absurdity of the story enough to end the apartheid, darfur, holocaust comparisons of israeli defense?

So how come the FBI isn’t on this guys ass yet, if he is so linked to so many different organizations?

cuz those orgs. don’t kill americans yet. and cuz the fbi is lost.

“So how come the FBI isn’t on this guys ass yet, if he is so linked to so many different organizations?”

Probably because he has a following here in Madison, and the FBI is just waiting for him to do something illegal. So far he hasn’t, he’s just being a hatemongering asshole. Can’t do much about that except ignore him.

why do jews act so weird…it’s not like all lutherans act weird

“…it’s not like all lutherans act weird”

So you’ve never been to MN?

“why do jews act so weird…it’s not like all lutherans act weird”

Ah, but first you must define “weird.” What one considers weird another would consider normal. It’s just like this one tractate I read in the Talmud where…

“…it’s not like all lutherans act weird”

Lutherans ARE weird. And Catholics are totalitarians, Baptists are hopeless literalists, Presbyterians are disgustingly complacent, Episcopalians are just plain stupid, AME’s are…well, they’re OK, I guess, and those Seventh Day Adventists think they’re so friggin’ cooler than all the other Protestant Christians, God do they ever make me wanna barf!

Etc., etc.

“Do you honestly take all us readers for idiots?!”

No, just you.

Idiot.

I live in Minnesota…no jews here.

“Assuming that what you say was true. But it is not, Palestinians welcomed the Jews, because they felt sympathy to what was visitied up on them in Germany, they took them in and allowed many htousands to settle.”

So when Ikrima al-Sabri, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem of the time (i.e., the leader of the so-called Palestinians, who also happened to be Yasser Arafat’s uncle) visited with Hitler and encouraged him to keep up the good work murdering Jews in Europe, he was actually expressing his sympathy for the Jews? And when he lobbied the British rulers to issue a White Paper limiting Jewish immigration (actually, he asked them to stop it altogether and kick out some of the Jews who were already there), he was actually allowing them in and letting thousands of them settle?

Are you sure you’re not an idiot?

“”Do you honestly take all us readers for idiots?!”

No, just you.

Idiot.”

Read what he/she wrote again, you idiot. I read it and it sounds to me like that poster is too smart to be fooled by the BS he/she was responding to. So who’s the idiot now?

pee pee in my weiner

“pee pee in my weiner”

Get thee to a bathroom! And be quick about it, matey!

Here’s morally bankrupt:

Health Officials Say Gulf Nations Should Give More to Fight Polio

With polio surging rapidly through Muslim countries, public health officials trying to eradicate it are expressing frustration that wealthy Islamic nations contribute so little to the effort, despite repeated requests.

Fighting the disease has cost nearly $4 billion since the eradication campaign began in 1985, and the campaign is urgently trying to raise another $250 million to handle this year’s new outbreaks, but the Persian Gulf states have given less than $3 million so far.

Stephen Strickland, the chief of polio eradication or the United Nations Foundation, which has contributed $30 million and raised tens of millions more, was more brusque, calling a recent Saudi pledge of $500,000 “peanuts,” and criticizing Kuwait for offering nothing while poor Islamic countries like Chad and Burkina Faso struggle to vaccinate millions of children.

“They could certainly do more,” he said. Because the new outbreak started in Nigerian Muslim communities that resisted vaccination and was apparently spread by pilgrims to Mecca, “you would think they’d take the lead in this,” he added.

The largest donors to polio eradication are Rotary International, which has given more than $600 million since 1985, and the United States, which has given more than $500 million plus the use of staff and laboratory services from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Britain and Japan have given more than $250 million each, and the European Union, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands and the World Bank have given more than $100 million each. Other European countries, Russia, Australia, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and the United Nations Foundation have been major donors.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/07/health/07polio.html

If the jews were such peaceful people they wouldn’t be trying to kill palestinians all the time.

“If the jews were such peaceful people they wouldn’t be trying to kill palestinians all the time.”

Gosh, you Madison liberals just can’t stop hating, can you? Liberals? I don’t think so.

“If the jews were such peaceful people they wouldn’t be trying to kill palestinians all the time.”

That’s actually true of the Palestinians. Israelis-not Jews-only kill in self-defense. Why do YOU kill? For sport? For sexual gratification? Certainly not for survival, that’s for sure.

this happened yesterday, but i don’t think we’ll hear about it from the main stream media…can anyone name the last time the israelis fired a rocket at a palestinian schoolbus? oh yea, never…

“Palestinians on Friday morning fired an anti-tank rocket on Friday morning at school bus carrying children outside the southern Gaza Strip settlement of Kfar Darom, shaking the fragile lull in violence. The rocket failed to hit the bus.”

i’m sure fayyad would support targeting school children…key word, “targeting”

It’s amazing how Fayyad loves to use Palestinian “suffering” to make his case-assuming he really ever had one-while he sits here in Madison all cushy, getting an education at someone else’s expense.

Fayyad, I really don’t care what the Israelis do to your people anymore. Your people are scum. They deserve to be where they’re at. YOU deserve to be back over there with them, you loser. Lay off the Jews and put the blame for your personal problems where it belongs-on yourself!

Sudan’s suffering makes it look like the the Palestinians are on vacation.

explain the Arab genocide in Darfur; the silence of other Arabs about Arab genocide in Darfur; or the Western media’s silence about Arabs’ silence about Arab genocide in Darfur.

Does Tom Friedman during all his earnest chin-stroking about the problem of terrorism and Arab culture pause to consider that this might be related somehow? Saudi imams get young men inspired to blow themselves up in the middle of Iraqi crowds, but we sure don’t hear too many reports of young Saudi men risking death to stand between Muslim villagers in Darfur and the janjaweed.

What about Nick Kristof, who has access to the same maps of Africa that the rest of us do? Does he wonder that the largest Arab country, directly north of Sudan with a large army and an air force hundreds of planes strong, has never made a move toward establishing, say, a no-fly zone over any part of Darfur? Demanded UN sanctions against Sudan, or imposed any of its own? To be honest, I doubt the idea has even crossed his mind.

http://www.belgraviadispatch.com/archives/004526.html

but seriously, if you were a palestinian how would you feel?

no liberal here…. I voted for BUSH and would again….ironic how us conservatives are the ones who always support israel and the jewish people still hate us??? i don’t get that. i mean seriously, hillary and bill were best of pals with Yassir and his wife….and you know they still got jewish folks to vote for them!

The Truman administration — in an often told tale — was deeply ambivalent, though ultimately American support was vital. On the one hand, as early as June 1945, President Truman adopted a proposal recommending that 100,000 European Jewish refugees be admitted immediately to Palestine. He communicated this to the British government, which remained quite unwilling to implement the proposal on the grounds that this would alienate opinion in the Arab world. (3) Ultimately, President Truman’s support for partition of Palestine and recognition of Israel came at the very last minute and against the advice and wishes of the Departments of State and Defense. At a bitterly contentious White House meeting on May 12, 1948, Truman’s advisor, Clark Clifford, argued strongly for immediate recognition of the Jewish state. However, Secretary of State George C. Marshall was strongly opposed and told Truman that if he “were to follow Mr. Clifford’s advice and if in the election I was to vote, I would vote against the President.” (4) After some confusion and disarray between the White House and the American delegation to the United Nations, the United States did announce de facto recognition only minutes after the announcement of Israel’s existence on May 14, 1948. However, the administration did not at first lift an arms embargo, and an Israeli loan request was, as Steven L. Spiegel notes, delayed by the bureaucracy until January 1949. (1949)

http://meria.idc.ac.il/journal/1998/issue3/jv2n3a2.html

“ironic how us conservatives are the ones who always support israel and the jewish people still hate us???”

Actually, some Jews are liberal and some Jews are conservative. Just because you see one Jew bashing conservatives doesn’t mean there isn’t some conservative Jew somewhere else bashing liberals. Jews don’t necessarily think or act as one cohesive group. They are just as capable of independent thought as any other group.

While Jews may applaud liberals and conservatives who support Israel, they may still disagree with some aspects of foreign policy regarding Israel while agreeing with other aspects. It’s not all cut and dried all the time.

Aside from the few (very few) reasoned responses, and the guy who had to use the lavatory, don’t any of you have something in you besides anger and hatred?

Not once, not ONCE in my four years at this school have I heard ANYONE say something good about BOTH sides of this whole thing. You all have been SO quick to deride each others’ intelligence, or hygiene, or just off and prefer the other one dead that no compromise of any sort has ever been offered, or theorized. Or even contemplated.

Both sides’ arguments are propaganda, simply because they are nothing more than “I’m right, they’re wrong.” Both sides need to pull their heads out of their f&#@ing asses and realize that the killing has to stop. Both sides are tragically wrong.

In Christian mythology, Pride is a deadly sin. Pride has killed to many people on both sides. Please, people, give up the fight and start talking rationally. That’s the only way you’ve gotten as far as handshakes in 40 years.

-William Northend

“Not once, not ONCE in my four years at this school have I heard ANYONE say something good about BOTH sides of this whole thing. You all have been SO quick to deride each others’ intelligence, or hygiene, or just off and prefer the other one dead that no compromise of any sort has ever been offered, or theorized. Or even contemplated.”

I think both sides can agree that William Northend is a douchebag and a tool.

“Resolution 5

Al-Awda, the Palestine Right to Return Coalition, affirms its stand by the Iraqi resistance to US, UN and all foreign occupations, as a legitimate right guaranteed by international law.”

I know people fighting over there, Fayyad, so let’s just hope you and I never cross paths.

Speaking of Douche….where is deters

Fine. I’m a douchebag and a tool. (Which is interesting seeing as I can never get into the KK.)

Thing is, by calling me that, you’ve proved my point. Why bother thinking up solutions to problems when you can simply call some else an assdrip and feel a little prouder about yourself for your wit?

And on a sidenote, why are douchebags used as insults, when used jockstraps are just as nasty?

-WN

-WN

“In Christian mythology, Pride is a deadly sin. Pride has killed to many people on both sides.”

Enough about Christian mythology. Here’s a little truth about Christian history, Billy Boy:

Christians were decidedly the first anti-Semites. History is long on accounts of Christians persecuting Jews. Remember the old passion plays? They were put on for the sole purpose of inciting hatred of Jews. Whole Jewish villages were burned and pillaged. Whole Jewish populations were either murdered en mass or expelled from the country.

Ever heard of the old Blood Libel? Christians, particularly Catholics, started that crap!

So take your self-righteous B.S. and shove it, ya midwestern plowboy piece of shit!

“And on a sidenote, why are douchebags used as insults, when used jockstraps are just as nasty?”

You heard it here first, folks! Billy Bob Northend admitted he is a used jockstrap!

If Christians were the first Anti-semites, then what do you call all those wonderful little killing sprees and slavery parties thrown by the Egyptians and Philistines? Your accusation, though true in the degree of what was done, is still a bit misguided.

Look, have your people been through copious amounts of s* over the years? Hell yes. I don’t think you can open to any two page spread of the first testament without some Israelite somewhere getting pissed on in some fashion. The third human ever CREATED was murdered for God’s sake. Is there still prejudice against your people to this very day? F#&% yeah. It’s downright scary how household the word “Skinhead” has become.

But bear in mind that Christians (Peter and Paul hardly died of old age), Buddhists (Boy are those Tibetans a lucky bunch), Hindus (Oh, yeah, EVERYTHING out of that English occupation was a good thing, right?), and, yes, even Muslims have been had cartloads of misery dumped over their heads over the past centuries. Yes, they had homelands to go back to for strength and you didn’t. I’m sorry. In it’s purpose, Israel is a wonderful thing. But because of all the religious hatred surrounding it, it’s become a tragic thing as well.

And it’s that hatred that I’m speaking against. I’m sorry if I sound self-righteous. I supposed I do. But insulting someone condemning religious hatred doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

And come on…Billy Bob? If that freak of an actor came from this state, I’ll happily move.

-WN

So let me get this straight. Jews recognize Christians as the enemy, but for the mean time they bite their roung and shut up so that they can con christians into helping them steal land from arabs and muslims, and opress them while at it. The whole siraeli arsenal is supplied by our military and our tax payers’ money, after that we still have to deal with an age of Jews “remembering” that we are the original anti-semites?

Wisconsin is a Nazi state.

“If Christians were the first Anti-semites, then what do you call all those wonderful little killing sprees and slavery parties thrown by the Egyptians and Philistines?”

That was before Judaism, idiot!

“So let me get this straight. Jews recognize Christians as the enemy, but for the mean time they bite their roung and shut up so that they can con christians into helping them steal land from arabs and muslims, and opress them while at it.”

Wrong. Muslims stole it from Christians, who before stole it from Jews. Try reading a little history before you make an ignorant pig of yourself!

“The whole siraeli arsenal is supplied by our military and our tax payers’ money, after that we still have to deal with an age of Jews “remembering” that we are the original anti-semites?”

Americans are the original anti-Semites? Hell, America wasn’t even around yet! What the F#@* are you talking about?! Of course, I’d like to know why it took the attack on Pearl Harbor to convince Americans that the Axis powers(Germany, Italy and Japan) were a real threat to world peace and that Americans would no longer be able to assume an isolationist position.

Do any of you redneck assholes bother to read anything about world history? It would obviously help. Or at least it would make you far less likely to look stupid. And God, are you people ever stupid!

“Wisconsin is a Nazi state.”

Damn right it is! Let’s hope Michigan and Minnesota kick their butts next year. That’ll give these cheddarheads something to think about!

“That was before Judaism, idiot!”

Actually, that was only before Judaism in its current form, but that’s hardly the point.

And technically, anti-Semitism didn’t exist until the 1870s, when a political group in Germany declared themselves anti-Semites, declaring their hatred for Jews was based on science — they thought Jews were an inferior race — and not based on religion. See, hating someone for their religious beliefs was considered politically incorrect at that time.

Today, it’s considered politically incorrect to hate people based on their race, too, so people who hate Jews have to turn to some other justification to make their hatred acceptable in civil society. To that end, Jew-haters today are anti-Zionist. See, they hate Jews not because of their religion or their race but because of their insistence on asserting their legitimate right to have their own country in their ancestral homeland and their even more legitimate right to protect themselves against people who would try to kill them.

One of the posters above got it exactly right — if terrorists ever crossed the border from Canada into Wisconsin and blew themselves up on public buses or in shopping centers, Americans would demand that our government hunt down the terrorists’ leaders and comrades and kill every last one of them, and rightfully so. It is hypocritical to demand that the Israelis show greater restraint. And for those of you who would not demand that our government do something to stop the terrorists, you’re no better than the people who stood by and did nothing to stop the genocides in Armenia (by the Turks), Europe (by the Nazis), Rwanda (by the Hutus), and Darfur (by the Janjaweed, who are not coincidentally related in some ways to the Palestinian groups Fayyad works for). And as far as I’m concerned, anyone who stands by and does nothing in the face of genocide shares responsibility for the murders.

YOU HEAR THAT, YOU MORONS? I CALLED YOU MURDERERS! BY YOUR LOGIC, THAT MEANS THE ARMENIANS, JEWS, TUTSIS, AND ANIMISTS AND CHRISTIANS OF SUDAN HAVE THE RIGHT TO KILL YOU NOW BECAUSE YOU WERE HELPED KILL THEM.

Pretty stupid logic, isn’t it?

that’s some fucked up jew “logic”

“And technically, anti-Semitism didn’t exist until the 1870s, when a political group in Germany declared themselves anti-Semites, declaring their hatred for Jews was based on science…”

Wrong. You’re referring to the Jewish race myth, which Hitler adopted from some half-assed anthropologist from Britain.

“BECAUSE YOU WERE HELPED KILL THEM.”

What’s “WERE” doing in this sentence?

“that’s some fucked up jew “logic”“

How do you know this person is Jewish? If it’s pure intuition on your part, then you need to log out and do some book-learnin’ at the library, ya ignorant goof!

I’m curious: Why is it that all you stupid liberals like to bitch about what Israel does in retaliation for terrorist attacks from the Palestinian side of the fence and never about what Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad do? I mean, it’s all well and obvious that these three terrorist organizations are equally responsible for breaking every truce that was ever agreed upon by Israel. They’re also the ones brainwashing young Palestinians into “going out with a bang”, with the promise of $50K for the folks back home and eternity with a paltry 70 virgins, promises that aren’t really fulfilled at all. And yet no one seems to be the slightest bit concerned about confronting them. Is it because you’re afraid they’ll bomb your favorite coffee shop? Is it because you’re afraid you’ll come off as religious conservatives? Is it because your aging hippy profs might stick you with a lesser grade if you don’t agree with his/her/its own ideology? Is it because your friends may not invite you over for another huff around the ol’ huka pipe? I’d hate to think that it’s just a revival of…watch out, I’m gonna say it…RADICAL LEFT-WING JEW-HATRED, THE LIKES OF WHICH HAVE NOT BEEN SEEN SINCE THE STALIN ERA?!

Nah, probably just end-of-the-term jitters. Right?

“that’s some fucked up jew “logic”“

Spoken like a true Madison liberal. Or maybe just a member of the Badger Herald staff who waited all morning for a certain someone to leave the office so they could post it.

“Actually, that was only before Judaism in its current form, but that’s hardly the point.”

No, Judaism did not exist as a religion prior to the future Israelites’ liberation from Egypt. And if it’s hardly the point like you said, then WHY THE F*@% EVEN BRING IT UP?!! FOCUS ON THE POINT YOU’RE TRYING TO MAKE, DAIRY BOY!!

After reading the article and half the posts here, it is all too obvious to me that a degree from UW-Madison isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on. Thank God I transferred to an out-of-state school.

“”And technically, anti-Semitism didn’t exist until the 1870s, when a political group in Germany declared themselves anti-Semites, declaring their hatred for Jews was based on science…”

Wrong. You’re referring to the Jewish race myth, which Hitler adopted from some half-assed anthropologist from Britain.”

Actually, that poster was right. You might want to look up Wilhelm Marr, the key figure in the organization in question. Before Marr, there was only anti-Judaism. After Marr, there was also anti-Semitism.

“that’s some fucked up jew “logic”“

Fucked Up Bigoted Dumbass Logic:

“I don’t like what you said. You must be a Jew.”

If the Jews didn’t hate you for being a racist, they’d certainly hate you for the same reason everyone else hates you: you’re an idiot!

Jew isn’t a race, it’s a weird ass religion.

“Jew isn’t a race, it’s a weird ass religion.”

Actually, ALL religions have a certain degreee of peculiarity about them. No reason to be a smart-ass, kid.

can’t we just lay it on the line and discuss (CPRS) chronic “palestinian” road spaghetti and its morality in comparison to the relatively peace-loving israelis?

“can’t we just lay it on the line and discuss (CPRS) chronic “palestinian” road spaghetti and its morality in comparison to the relatively peace-loving israelis?”

How about this: Destroy Hamas, Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad. Not only will the Israelis be happy, but the Palestinians will feel liberated for once. No more terroists to recruit their children to perform suicide bombings and the Israelis will chill and there will finally be peace. The terrorists are the ones keeping it going. Eliminate them and people on both sides will be free. That is where it must begin. Vilifying the Israelis or Palestinians as you choose will never accomplish anything. You must always be smarter than the enemy, and the enemy is the terrorists, not the innocents on both sides who fight each other and forget why.

and then what? the jews will just try to screw them over like they do everyone throughout history

“and then what? the jews will just try to screw them over like they do everyone throughout history”

This person wouldn’t know history if it jumped up and kicked him in the ass. The Jews have rarely screwed over anyone in their history. By contrast, my own Catholic Church has made a habit over screwing them over in the past 2000 years or so, and most Protestant denominations have been almost as bad. Not to mention most Muslim groups of the past 1000 years. And since Israel was created 57 years ago, the UN and most of the world has taken extra special care to villify Israel for doing things every other nation does as a matter of routine, even when Israel takes more precautions to preserve human life and dignity than any other nation.

I will never understand why so many people in Madison insist on hating Jews for no reason and loving people who advocate murdering Jews.

That’s because liberals and conservatives in Madison are deranged Nazi pigs. They wouldn’t give a shit about solving a problem, let alone discussing it rationally. Most of the posts here are from stupid college kids who probably won’t even graduate unless the UW decides to lower its standards to that of a Special Ed class. Kinda makes you wonder what kind of leadership Wisconsin will have ten years from now.

But there appears to be a ray of hope. The poster who wrote that terrorists orgs should be confronted first got it right. They must be put out of business before peace can even be possible. Both Israelis and Palestinians would readily agree on that. Terrorists are just as much of a threat to Arab countries as they are to Israel. Both Arabs and Israelis pray for the day when they will be stopped. Most Arabs would rather just leave Israel be and get on with the business of tending to internal crises in their own countries.

Enough of the bashing already. You are all college students. Time to start acting like it.

“and then what? the jews will just try to screw them over like they do everyone throughout history”

Fuck you, cheddarhead! Why don’t we just kill your ass instead? This is the kind of mentality that UW-Madison churns out every year? Maybe I should transfer out of state. God knows I wouldn’t want “University of Wisconsin” printed across MY diploma. No wonder this school has such a hard time recruiting from out-of-state. Pretty soon, This school will go bust. Then all you’ll have is…Whitewater. Ha-ha!

“The Jews have rarely screwed over anyone in their history.”

And precisely when did Jews ever screw anyone at all? Care to explain?

how about their usury in Germany before World War II — how about their manipulation of world financial markets and precious metals…..

oh yeah, we don’t say “jewing” without reason

“how about their usury in Germany before World War II — how about their manipulation of world financial markets and precious metals…..

oh yeah, we don’t say “jewing” without reason”

That was propaganda started by the Nazis, you idiot! The Germans were dumb enough to believe it. How about you, Mr. UW-Madison College Student? The next thing we know, you’re gonna plunge straight into Holocaust denial mode and incur the wrath of your grandparents who served in Europe in WWII.

Yeah, it looks like a degree from UW-Madison isn’t worth a dime these days!

it is a good point though….why do the jews get a free pass on everything….hmmm

“it is a good point though….why do the jews get a free pass on everything….hmmm”

Jews have NEVER gotten a free pass on anything, ya redneck asshole! Your comment is further proof that a UW degree is worthless.

“how about their usury in Germany before World War II…”

Germany’s economic woes were not caused by Jews in any way. They were caused by several other European countries demanding excessive reparation payments from Germany for damages caused by Germany in WWI. France, in particular, was expecially uncaring for the extreme hardship reparation payments created on Germany.

Jews in Germany were mostly doctors, lawyers or worked in the visual/performing arts.

As for the usury charge: Many countries throughout Europe forced Jews to work as money-lenders. They were ordered to charge impossible interest rates and all interest was forwarded to the governing power. If Jews could not collect the loan, it was their tough luck. And they still had to forward whatever interest was due…out of their own pockets. Of course, Jews didn’t work in money-lending for very long. If they ran S&L’s and if they were allowed to run them THEIR way, loan applicants would surely have gotten a better deal.

Nowadays, damn few Jews work in money-lending, so don’t rage at them if that payday loan you got from that check-cashing place is killing you. It’s not run by Jews. As you can see, Jews are very careful to pick and choose their professions so they don’t end up being accused of anything. And the media is certainly not run by Jews either, just because you see a few actors and directors working in Hollywood. And less than 3% of all representatives in local, state and federal governments are Jews.

Any other myths about Jews that anyone would care to submit for discussion?

“how about their usury in Germany before World War II…”

Germany’s economic woes were not caused by Jews in any way. They were caused by several other European countries demanding excessive reparation payments from Germany for damages caused by Germany in WWI. France, in particular, was expecially uncaring for the extreme hardship reparation payments created on Germany.

Jews in Germany were mostly doctors, lawyers or worked in the visual/performing arts.

As for the usury charge: Many countries throughout Europe forced Jews to work as money-lenders. They were ordered to charge impossible interest rates and all interest was forwarded to the governing power. If Jews could not collect the loan, it was their tough luck. And they still had to forward whatever interest was due…out of their own pockets. Of course, Jews didn’t work in money-lending for very long. If they ran S&L’s and if they were allowed to run them THEIR way, loan applicants would surely have gotten a better deal.

Nowadays, damn few Jews work in money-lending, so don’t rage at them if that payday loan you got from that check-cashing place is killing you. It’s not run by Jews. As you can see, Jews are very careful to pick and choose their professions so they don’t end up being accused of anything. And the media is certainly not run by Jews either, just because you see a few actors and directors working in Hollywood. And less than 3% of all representatives in local, state and federal governments are Jews.

Any other myths about Jews that anyone would care to submit for discussion?

Judging the state of the entire UW-Madison based on the Badger Herald message board is far more ignorant than most of the ridiculous posting going on.

“Judging the state of the entire UW-Madison based on the Badger Herald message board is far more ignorant than most of the ridiculous posting going on.”

The fact that the posts are made by students-most of ‘em, anyway-and the fact that the Badger Herald actually allows them to be posted is sufficient enough to judge the university as a whole accordingly. What else need be said?

That’s such bullshit…jews have been fucking people over for centuries.

“Wisconsin is a Nazi state.”

Yeah, that explains why we have to Jewish senators.

“That’s such bullshit…jews have been fucking people over for centuries.”

You know, most people would take you for a right-wing extremist, but considering that this is Madison, Wisconsin, you could just as well be a left-winger.

Of course, you could also be an employee of the Badger Herald. THAT would certainly explain everything.

Please do not judge all of the UW by the posters, my brother and many friends attended UW and never ended up with the issues these people have, despite the Professors attempts to indoctrinate them. The one thing i find amazing is how many people i know who were bleeding heart liberals during college and for a few years after graduation, but after a few years in the real world change their political leanings.

It’s no wonder that Jews would be so persecuted. Every time a civilization has some kind of crisis, they always find someone to scapegoat. Jews are almost always scapegoated simply because they are so few in number. And since there are so few of them, it is absurd that anyone would blame them for problems that such a small demographic could not possibly cause. Lots of morons like to accuse Jews of world domination. Come on, how could a people barely 1/100th of 1% of the world’s population pull off such a grandiose scheme?!

OPEC countries love to blame Jews and Israel for the oil crisis the West is having, but where’s the proof? When has Israel ever bombed an oil-drilling site or a pipeline? What Jewish interest has ever attempted to meddle in petroleum markets to up the price of a barrel of crude?

So if Jews are to blame for so many problems, who else is on the shit list? Blame Native Americans for compulsive gambling if you keep losing your paychecks at the casinos? You’d have the same problem in Las Vegas. Stop gambling! Who would you blame for your problem with alcohol or drugs? You, that’s who! You got yourself hooked, you can jolly well stagger on down to the rehab clinic and get yourself unhooked!

Not enough rational thinking in this world, that’s the problem. That’s why there’s no cure for cancer. That’s why there’s no balanced budget. That’s why wacko dictators stay in power for so long. That’s why our nation’s colleges and universities are churning out idiots. That’s why we’ll never figure out a way to fuck while running at full speed.

Now back to square one. Put the blame where it belongs. If all the Jews in the world disappeared, you’d still have to pay a ton o’ bucks to fill your tank, you’d still get cancer, you still may not get laid next weekend, and you’ll sure as heck still have to pay off those doggone student loans! There’ll still be wars, famines, disease and acne. There’ll still be taxes, bills, spam e-mail and losing seasons for your team. There’ll still be other students whose grammar, spelling and punctuation are way friggin’ better than yours. There’ll still be crossword puzzles you won’t be able to solve completely. There’ll still be holes in the ozone, mediocre movies and TV sitcoms, dropout on your sound card when you try to record audio, and the fact that the hot-looking babe you’ve been eyeing for the past two weeks is a lesbian after all and you ain’t gettin’ any, stud muffin!

Jews deal with a lot of the same problems everyone else deals with, plus they often take the blame for crap they’ve got nothing to do with. Stuck in traffic? Check out the Jewish guy two cars back. Surprise! He’s stuck there too! Not only that, he has to listen to losers like you bitch out your car window about “those pinhead Jewish urban planners whose dumb ideas caused citywide traffic to bottleneck here!” Hey, at least you’re two cars ahead of him. Does that make you feel better? Got a tattoo you’re having second thoughts about? Lots of Holocaust survivors have tattoos they didn’t have any choice about.

So 1) put the blame where it belongs and 2)count your blessings. The world had problems before Jews came along and it’d still have problems if they left. The only difference is that you won’t have the Goldsteins down the street to blame anymore for the weeds on your front lawn, Mr. and Mrs. Urban Warrior. hee-hee-ha-ha! Deal with it.

It’s no wonder that Jews would be so persecuted. Every time a civilization has some kind of crisis, they always find someone to scapegoat. Jews are almost always scapegoated simply because they are so few in number. And since there are so few of them, it is absurd that anyone would blame them for problems that such a small demographic could not possibly cause. Lots of morons like to accuse Jews of world domination. Come on, how could a people barely 1/100th of 1% of the world’s population pull off such a grandiose scheme?!

OPEC countries love to blame Jews and Israel for the oil crisis the West is having, but where’s the proof? When has Israel ever bombed an oil-drilling site or a pipeline? What Jewish interest has ever attempted to meddle in petroleum markets to up the price of a barrel of crude?

So if Jews are to blame for so many problems, who else is on the shit list? Blame Native Americans for compulsive gambling if you keep losing your paychecks at the casinos? You’d have the same problem in Las Vegas. Stop gambling! Who would you blame for your problem with alcohol or drugs? You, that’s who! You got yourself hooked, you can jolly well stagger on down to the rehab clinic and get yourself unhooked!

Not enough rational thinking in this world, that’s the problem. That’s why there’s no cure for cancer. That’s why there’s no balanced budget. That’s why wacko dictators stay in power for so long. That’s why our nation’s colleges and universities are churning out idiots. That’s why we’ll never figure out a way to fuck while running at full speed.

Now back to square one. Put the blame where it belongs. If all the Jews in the world disappeared, you’d still have to pay a ton o’ bucks to fill your tank, you’d still get cancer, you still may not get laid next weekend, and you’ll sure as heck still have to pay off those doggone student loans! There’ll still be wars, famines, disease and acne. There’ll still be taxes, bills, spam e-mail and losing seasons for your team. There’ll still be other students whose grammar, spelling and punctuation are way friggin’ better than yours. There’ll still be crossword puzzles you won’t be able to solve completely. There’ll still be holes in the ozone, mediocre movies and TV sitcoms, dropout on your sound card when you try to record audio, and the fact that the hot-looking babe you’ve been eyeing for the past two weeks is a lesbian after all and you ain’t gettin’ any, stud muffin!

Jews deal with a lot of the same problems everyone else deals with, plus they often take the blame for crap they’ve got nothing to do with. Stuck in traffic? Check out the Jewish guy two cars back. Surprise! He’s stuck there too! Not only that, he has to listen to losers like you bitch out your car window about “those pinhead Jewish urban planners whose dumb ideas caused citywide traffic to bottleneck here!” Hey, at least you’re two cars ahead of him. Does that make you feel better? Got a tattoo you’re having second thoughts about? Lots of Holocaust survivors have tattoos they didn’t have any choice about.

So 1) put the blame where it belongs and 2)count your blessings. The world had problems before Jews came along and it’d still have problems if they left. The only difference is that you won’t have the Goldsteins down the street to blame anymore for the weeds on your front lawn, Mr. and Mrs. Urban Warrior. hee-hee-ha-ha! Deal with it.

“The one thing i find amazing is how many people i know who were bleeding heart liberals during college and for a few years after graduation, but after a few years in the real world change their political leanings.”

Yeah, but that’s just it. They take too long to grow up. Mentally, they’re stuck in 7th grade. Emotionally, they’re still in what Freud called the anal phase, meaning they’re hands are still stuck up their asses. Conservatives have a similar hang-up, except that they’re hands are usually stuck up someone else’s ass.

as long as it’s not a gay man’s ass.

“as long as it’s not a gay man’s ass.”

Sorry, but gay men aren’t safe from the cold, far-reaching hands of a conservative either.

“Any other myths about Jews that anyone would care to submit for discussion?”

Ever hear the one about how Jews are behind some grand conspiracy to take over the world and that they control the media and the economy?

I wish I had that kind of power. Should I sign my post “Elder of Zion in Training”?

“Ever hear the one about how Jews are behind some grand conspiracy to take over the world and that they control the media and the economy?”

That myth was already dispelled in an earlier post.

“Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion” is some fictitious crap, presumably made up by some 19th century Russian Army officers so the czar could have some bullshit pretext to persecute Jews. Apparently he somehow felt threatened by the fact that Jews exist, or perhaps he needed to justify his own attempt to scapegoat them for God-knows-what. And this was long before anyone ever thought of starting a communist revolution to oust him.

Hey, just in case anyone mentions that Karl Marx was a Jew, he was only Jewish until he was six years old, when his dad decided they were going to become Lutherans instead. Eventually he became a full-blown atheist and never reconciled to the Jewish faith.

Just trying to stop another myth before it starts.

jews control the media and try to act as the world’s thought police

where exactly do you get off trying to play jew victim 24/7? oh, and….”former staffer” would be my status

“jews control the media and try to act as the world’s thought police”

Nope, that’s what propagandists like you are trying to accomplish. You’re the ones who try to force ideas down other people’s throats, and kill them if they don’t go along with you.

I guess if Fayyad wanted to find a group of idiots to be his following, he’d try UW-Madison. After all, there’s an abundance of idiots here.

“where exactly do you get off trying to play jew victim 24/7? oh, and….”former staffer” would be my status”

Ah, “former Staffer”. Nice to know that you are out of a job…wait a minute…Pat Klemz, is that you? My God! Pat Klemz is out of work! Ha Ha Ha!

“and the fact that the hot-looking babe you’ve been eyeing for the past two weeks is a lesbian after all and you ain’t gettin’ any, stud muffin!”

That’s another thing the Jews have been unfairly blamed for! Jews don’t control all the pussy in the world, lesbians do. We must destroy the lesbian paradigm before they successfully implement the secret agenda meticulously outlined in “The Protocols Of The Elders Of The Universal Lesbian Sisterhood”…just kidding. Lesbians are the most, really. Cheers!

nah, I am just fucking with you…it’s easy to stir up the jewish ppl. No, I am not “Klemz.” I am alumni - 2001.

“nah, I am just fucking with you…it’s easy to stir up the jewish ppl. No, I am not “Klemz.” I am alumni - 2001.”

And you still haven’t grown up yet. It’s also easy for the Jewish people to kick your ass. Do you think they want to be any closer to another Holocaust? Sure, you’re just “fucking” with someone, but if push goes to shove, watch out. You’re gonna get your head smashed, farm boy. You are “fucking” with some folks who’ve been through the worst hell imaginable, and they aren’t gonna let it happen again.

hmmm “farm boy” How did you know? Because I didn’t. From where I am sitting all I see is the skyline of Minneapolis. Of course, I suppose to a NY jew that’s a farm…well that and any place that isn’t stinky, crime-ridden and over populated.

And why would one assume the suffering of a previous generation for oneself?

If you’ll notice in my last post I refer to Jews in the third person, meaning that I am not one. And for you to assume that I am from NY clearly shows that you are an idiot. Also the fact that you have the mentality of a 3rd-grader shows that you are indeed a redneck asshole from the Midwest, which is typical in this region.

“From where I am sitting all I see is the skyline of Minneapolis.”

So you’re from the twin cities, eh? Isn’t that the home of many a white supremacist group, namely the National Socialist Movement and the now-defunct Panzerfaust Records? My, what “positive influences” they seem to be on your way of thinking. It certainly explains your anti-Jewish disposition.

By the way, Minneapolis is every bit as filthy and smelly and crime-ridden as any other major U.S. city, so what do you have to brag about?

“Also the fact that you have the mentality of a 3rd-grader…”

Who said that guy has the mentality of a third grader? Don’t you think you’re not giving third graders enough credit? Even most kindergartners know better than to emulate a piece of crap like that guy!

“Even most kindergartners know better than to emulate a piece of crap like that guy!”

Yeah, that’s what YOU think, bucko! Obviously you aren’t aware of the 3rd-graders’ global conspiracy to take over the world using Super-Soakers. Did you know that the little twerps have just figured out a way to rig a Sony PSP to hack into government defense computers? Oh yeah! They finally fgured it out. You just watch, pal. Before you know it, they’ll be using their iPods to buy stuff online-using YOUR credit card number.

Think you’re safe? Think it ain’t happenin’? Just watch, someday when you’re scrubbing their toilets at gunpoint, you’ll wish you’d wised up to ‘em a long time ago. And then what’re you gonna do? And then one day when they decide you’re too ugly to look at, you be standing there tied to a stake while a bunch of snot-nosed 9-year-olds are doin’ a war dance before they light you up. If only you’d listened sooner. If only!

oh joy, now some damn greedy jew wants to buy the Vikings…..no doubt they will run the team into the ground with their cheapskate antics.

“oh joy, now some damn greedy jew wants to buy the Vikings…..no doubt they will run the team into the ground with their cheapskate antics.”

Really? How much better were they when a Gentile owned the team? Hey, some of the best CEOs and producers and directors in Hollywood are Jews. Just because they run a business better than you doesn’t mean you need to be jealous, plowboy. Envy is just a loser spinning his wheels in the mud.

keep trying to justify your gold digging

Instead of singing the National Anthem before a Vikings game, they’ll sing Ha Tikva. Ha ha ha ha!

“Alliance of misinformed, morally bankrupt supporting Israel” the title reads.

Fayyad, you’d consider us to be misinformed and morally bankrupt whether we support Israel or not! Why should we give a shit about you and your people when the Arab world doesn’t give a shit about ‘em either? Why not just get Jordan or Saudi Arabia to take ‘em in?

Or maybe the real reason nobody cares about any of you is because you’re all a bunch of manic-depressive, passive-agressive psychos who just don’t know when to quit.

“oh joy, now some damn greedy jew wants to buy the Vikings…..no doubt they will run the team into the ground with their cheapskate antics.”

The real naqba is that jackasses like the guy who posted that ^^^^^ were ever born.

You know, anyone who celebrates the bombing of the World Trade Center like the Palestinians did is one bunch of assholes I don’t give a shit about. Fuck ‘em all! And to those of you who bash Jews over the whole thing: Fuck you too! What a bunch of pussies! First some wacko dictator in Europe tries to exterminate them, then they get their own country, then a bunch of uppity Arabs try to stop them, The Jews defend themselves, and now all the Arabs in the world are whining because for once Jews are able to fight back. Crybabies!

I’ll tell ya, I don’t get all worked up every time I read in the news about Israel tearing down some poor Palestinian family’s home after one member of the family becomes a suicide bomber. Why the hell didn’t the parents stop their kid from doing it? And where did all this bullshit about paying the suicide bombers’ families $50,000, and that the bomber will live on in paradise with 70 virgins get started? Man, if the Palestinians are dumb enough to fall for that shit, I say fuck ‘em!

I agree with another poster who wrote that efforts should be concentrated on getting rid of Islamic terrorists organizations. THEY are the ones who keep shit happening over there, not the Israelis.

Another thing: Jews do not and cannot possibly have some kind of conspiracy to take over the world. Where does this shit come from?! What neo-Nazi website did some shithead paste that crap from? All that BS about Zionist conspiracies has been around for over 150 years, and no one has ever been able to prove it. Why? Because it just ain’t fucking happening! I mean, just because their are a few Jewish congressmen doesn’t mean shit! By the same logic, that would mean that with few Jewish doctors,there’s some kind of Jewish profiteering conspiracy in the pharmaceutical industry.

To make a long story short, there are just too many shitheads believing everything they hear. Nobody wants to think for themselves. It’s just a mystery as to how these assholes get into college in the first place. Maybe that’s where the conspiracies really begin, with the assholes.

You know, anyone who celebrates the bombing of the World Trade Center like the Palestinians did is one bunch of assholes I don’t give a shit about. Fuck ‘em all! And to those of you who bash Jews over the whole thing: Fuck you too! What a bunch of pussies! First some wacko dictator in Europe tries to exterminate them, then they get their own country, then a bunch of uppity Arabs try to stop them, The Jews defend themselves, and now all the Arabs in the world are whining because for once Jews are able to fight back. Crybabies!

I’ll tell ya, I don’t get all worked up every time I read in the news about Israel tearing down some poor Palestinian family’s home after one member of the family becomes a suicide bomber. Why the hell didn’t the parents stop their kid from doing it? And where did all this bullshit about paying the suicide bombers’ families $50,000, and that the bomber will live on in paradise with 70 virgins get started? Man, if the Palestinians are dumb enough to fall for that shit, I say fuck ‘em!

I agree with another poster who wrote that efforts should be concentrated on getting rid of Islamic terrorists organizations. THEY are the ones who keep shit happening over there, not the Israelis.

Another thing: Jews do not and cannot possibly have some kind of conspiracy to take over the world. Where does this shit come from?! What neo-Nazi website did some shithead paste that crap from? All that BS about Zionist conspiracies has been around for over 150 years, and no one has ever been able to prove it. Why? Because it just ain’t fucking happening! I mean, just because their are a few Jewish congressmen doesn’t mean shit! By the same logic, that would mean that with few Jewish doctors,there’s some kind of Jewish profiteering conspiracy in the pharmaceutical industry.

To make a long story short, there are just too many shitheads believing everything they hear. Nobody wants to think for themselves. It’s just a mystery as to how these assholes get into college in the first place. Maybe that’s where the conspiracies really begin, with the assholes.

Is there not a reason for stereotypes.

“To make a long story short, there are just too many shitheads believing everything they hear.”

Speaking of gullible shitheads I don’t who is worse, Newsweek or the Moslems.

Newsweek has now basically said “Never mind!” in what is essentially a retraction of a report claiming that interrogators at Guantanamo Bay had desecrated the holy Koran — a report that led to angry riots in Afghanistan and more than a dozen deaths.

The MSM gets it wrong (again) because they want to be first with the BIG story and the reporters hate Bush and the military. Also, the crazy Moslems make Pat Buchanan and the Christian right wing-nuts look positively reasonable. Pathetic!

Two points: (1) If they had wrongly reported the race of a criminal and produced a lynching, they’d feel much worse — which is why they generally don’t report such things, a degree of sensitivity they don’t extend to reporting on, you know, minor topics like wars; and (2) If a blogger had made a similar mistake, with similar consequences, we’d be hearing about Big Media’s superior fact-checking and layers of editors.

People died, and U.S. military and diplomatic efforts were damaged, because — let’s be clear here — Newsweek was too anxious to get out a story that would make the Bush Administration and the military look bad.

http://instapundit.com/archives/023000.php

Newsweek isn’t the problem. The problem is that people will kill over a book being desecrated. Actually, over a anonymous report buried within a third rate weekly magazine. There is something wrong when people value a book, of which there are millions, over human lives. This is the real problem, and Newsweek isn’t the source of it. The problem is an ignorant and violent subculture within the islamic world, and the general lack of tolerance about religion therein.

oh yeah and israel is just oh so perfect as they kill Palestinian families…

“oh yeah and israel is just oh so perfect as they kill Palestinian families…”

Now let’s try switching a couple of words around:

oh yeah and Palestine is just oh so perfect as they kill Israeli families…

The latter is how it always starts.

Any other Madison liberals with something “intelligent and thoughtful” to say?

Yeah, I read about the riots in Afghanistan. Pretty pathetic. Kinda makes you wonder why the rest of the world even bothers to be so accomodating. I say let’s just take over the Middle-East. It would certainly be more justifiable than invading Canada. Besides, stuff’s cheaper in the Middle-East than in Canada anyway.

“oh yeah and israel is just oh so perfect as they kill Palestinian families…”

Newsflash, brainiac: Palestinians kill far more Palestinian families than Israelis. In fact, Palestinians kill far more people of any nationality than Israelis do. Maybe that says something about their wanton disregard for human life, you think?

The following are excerpts from this week’s official Friday sermon on Palestinian Authority (PA) TV.(1) The preacher is Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris, a paid employee of the PA. To view the sermon visit http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=669 .

“Allah has tormented us with ‘the people most hostile to the believers’ ? the Jews. ‘Thou shalt find that the people most hostile to the believers to be the Jews and the polytheists.’ Allah warned His beloved Prophet Muhammad about the Jews, who had killed their prophets, forged their Torah, and sowed corruption throughout their history.

“With the establishment of the state of Israel, the entire Islamic nation was lost, because Israel is a cancer spreading through the body of the Islamic nation, and because the Jews are a virus resembling AIDS, from which the entire world suffers.

“You will find that the Jews were behind all the civil strife in this world. The Jews are behind the suffering of the nations.

“Ask Britain what it did to the Jews in the early sixth century. What did they do to the Jews? They expelled them, tortured them, and prevented them from entering Britain for more than 300 years. All this was because of what the Jews did in Britain. Ask France what it did to the Jews. They tortured them, expelled them, and burned their Talmud, because of the civil strife the Jews wanted to spark in France, in the days of Louis XIX. Ask Portugal what it did to the Jews. Ask Czarist Russia, which welcomed the Jews, who plotted to kill the Czar - so he massacred them. But don’t ask Germany what it did to the Jews. It was the Jews who provoked Nazism to wage war against the entire world, when the Jews, using the Zionist movement, got other countries to wage an economic war on Germany and to boycott German merchandise. They provoked Russia, Britain, France, and Italy. This enraged the Germans toward the Jews, leading to the events of those days, which the Jews commemorat today.

“But they are committing worse deeds than those done to them in the Nazi war. Yes, perhaps some of them were killed and some burned, but they are inflating this in order to win over the of the media and gain the world’s sympathy. The worst crimes in history were committed against the Jews, yet these crimes are no worse than what the Jews are doing in Palestine. What was done to the Jews was a crime, but isn’t what the Jews are doing today in the land of Palestine not a crime?!

“Look at modern history. Where has Great Britain gone? Where has Czarist Russia gone? Where has France gone - France, which almost ruled the entire world? Where is Nazi Germany, which massacred millions and ruled the world? Where did all these superpowers go? He who made them disappear will make America disappear too, God willing. He who made Russia disappear overnight is capable of making America disappear and fall, Allah willing.

“We have ruled the world before, and by Allah, the day will come when we will rule the entire world again. The day will come when we will rule America. The day will come when we will rule Britain and the entire world ? except for the Jews. The Jews will not enjoy a life of tranquility under our rule, because they are treacherous by nature, as they have been throughout history. The day will come when everything will be relived of the Jews - even the stones and trees which were harmed by them. Listen to the Prophet Muhammad, who tells you about the evil end that awaits Jews. The stones and trees will want the Muslims to finish off every Jew.”

Endnotes: (1) Palestinian Authority TV, May 13, 2005.

For more information on the subject: See “Palestinian Authority Sermons 2000-2003,” December 26, 2003, http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sr&ID=SR2403

*MEMRITV Clip No. 647, “Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris in a PA Friday Sermon: Muslim Prisoners Are Forced to Convert to Christianity in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine,” http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=647

*MEMRI TV Clip No. 608, “Palestinian Authority Friday Sermon: The Time Has Come for the ‘Great Jihad,’” http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=608

*MEMRI TV Clip No. 563, “Sermons on Palestinian TV,” http://memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=563

Fuck M_slims, “u” included, Fayyad.

“Fuck M_slims, “u” included, Fayyad.”

There’s just no call for that. Fayyad may be a terrorist and a douchebag, but there are plenty of good Muslims in the world who don’t deserve this kind of abuse. Many of them serve in our armed forces and are actively fighting the war on terrorism.

NEWSWEEK is misinformed, morally bankrupt!

People willing to kill over a thing like this are NOT good. No how, no way, never in a milliom years. Makes the yahoos fussing over flag burning look positively reasonable.

“In Pakistan and Afghanistan destruction of the Qur’an is seen as blasphemous and punishable by death. In the US, destruction of any religious text is a constitutional right.”

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1485635,00.html

Newsweek ran the story knowing that it would excite the passions of the world’s Muslim population.

Contrast this with the media’s refusal to show pictures of our fellow citizens jumping out the the world trade center. We were told that such pictures would unneccessarily anger the American people and lead to violence against Muslim Americans.

I saw them jumping…not spashing though…I hope it’s a peaceful way to go - no pain?

“I hope it’s a peaceful way to go - no pain?”

Yes, there is pain. Theoretically, you would die of massive cardiac/respiratory arrest on the way down. That’s painful enough. If you’re lucky, you’d black out before you hit the street.

“NEWSWEEK is misinformed, morally bankrupt!”

So is al-Jazeera. So is Cosmopolitan, Hell, so is Penthouse, Hustler, National Lampoon, The Onion, The Badger Herald…

So how many have died as the result of a story in the Onion?

OTOH, false stories in al-Jazeera have probably killed many people.

Is Newsweek run by jews?

“So how many have died as the result of a story in the Onion?”

LOTS! Open your eyes, you fool! It’s happening all around you!

C’mon, like you couldn’t tell that I was kidding about the Onion? I mean, didn’t the thought even cross your mind that I might actually work for the Onion? God, what a dork!

“Is Newsweek run by jews?”

No, but I wouldn’t doubt that Jason Blair works for them now.

From the AP Newswire:

Afghanistan’s government said Tuesday that Newsweek should be held responsible for damages caused by deadly anti-American demonstrations after the magazine alleged U.S. desecration of the Quran, and it suggested that foreign forces may have helped turn protests violent.

Hey, I can see why Newsweek should be boycotted for printing bullshit. I would agree without hesitation that they were total idiots for printing a story that was unconfirmed. But to hold them responsible for riots that Afghans started themselves? Get real! Just a bunch of uneducated hotheads trying to blame someone else for their own mental issues.

“Is Newsweek run by jews?”

Nope. Jews don’t make dumbass mistakes like that.

I’d belive you work for the Onion…you are one funny chick…heels and all.

“I’d belive you work for the Onion…you are one funny chick…heels and all.”

Actually, I don’t work for the Onion. Also, I’m a guy. Well OK, sometimes I like to cross-dress but I never thought to hint at that earlier because I didn’t think it would piss off a whole country halfway around the world.

MEMRI?

What a blatantly Zionist propaganda lie-spreading machine that organization is. Its amazing they have nonprofit status.

“What a blatantly Zionist propaganda lie-spreading machine that organization is. Its amazing they have nonprofit status.”

AND IF YOU KNOW WHAT’S GOOD FOR YOU, YOU WON’T BITCH ABOUT IT, FRAT BOY!!!

Deter likes to cross dress too.

“Deter likes to cross dress too.”

Who cares? Deters is hot-looking no matter how he dresses!

“MEMRI?

What a blatantly Zionist propaganda lie-spreading machine that organization is. Its amazing they have nonprofit status.”

I defy you to find one example of a lie they told, without using blatantly pro-Palestinian propaganda lie-spreading organizations like al-Jazeera, the BBC, or your mother.

In the good old days, one could count on the progressive elements to side with a pluralistic, tolerant, secular democracy against a theocratic regime made up of glowering, Jew-hating misogynists. But that was before the permanent adolescents of the ’60s hijacked the left with their fragrant blend of anti-Americanism and loathing of the very culture that guarantees their freedoms. To them, Iran is a problem only inasmuch as it provides the Zionist Oil-Cabal Neocons with an “enemy.” And if the mullahs respond to a successful revolution by nuking Israel on the way out? Well, how many Jews does the world really need, anyway? Europe’s been asking that question for centuries. An answer might be nice.

http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/lileks051105.html

I have a question for Fayyad and other like-minded know-it-alls: Are you all aware of the consequences of withdrawing military support from Israel?

Remember one thing: Israel has nukes. If the US discontinues the $3.5 billion in annual support, it will be the Arab world that will be in a dangerous situation, not Israel. Without US support, Most of the Arab countries will give more serious consideration to their not-so-secret dream of “driving Israel into the sea.” Israel, which is the world’s 5th largest nuclear power with its 400 nukes, will certainly not hesitate to use them. They can hit any Arab target with their Jericho II and Shavit missiles. And there goes the petroleum industry in the Middle-East. And then look how much we’ll all pay at the pump for a gallon of gas. Then what’ll we do? Blame Israel? they’ll just turn around, grab their crotches and say “Yo, pump this!”

So unless scientists find an alternative source of energy that can be used on a large scale in many applications, thus ending the era of internal combustion, we’re stuck with way things are.

Look, I’m trying real hard not to seem like I’m taking sides on the issue, but the whole world is just gonna have to learn to get along. Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist. But before both states can exist side by side, all opposition must be eliminated. I’m referring of course to Islamic terrorist organizations. The Arabs AND the Israelis will both be forever grateful and peace will finally become a reality. Anyone who disagrees with that fact is obviously not serious about peace.

The Bin Ladenists did have a sort of “governing program,” expressed in part by their Taliban allies and patrons. This in turn reflected a “unified ideology.” It can be quite easily summarized: the return of the Ottoman Empire under a caliphate and a return to the desert religious purity of the seventh century (not quite the same things, but that’s not our fault). In the meantime, anyway, war to the end against Jews, Hindus, Christians, unbelievers, and Shiites. None of the “experts” quoted in the article appeared to have remembered these essentials of the al-Qaida program, but had they done so, they might not be so astounded at the promiscuous way in which the Iraqi gangsters pump out toxic anti-Semitism, slaughter Nepalese and other Asian guest-workers on video and gloat over the death of Hindus, burn out and blow up the Iraqi Christian minority, kidnap any Westerner who catches their eye, and regularly inflict massacres and bombings on Shiite mosques, funerals, and assemblies… .

The Bin Laden and Zarqawi organizations, and their co-thinkers in other countries, have gone to great pains to announce, on several occasions, that they will win because they love death, while their enemies are so soft and degenerate that they prefer life. Are we supposed to think that they were just boasting when they said this? Their actions demonstrate it every day, and there are burned-out school buses and clinics and hospitals to prove it, as well as mosques (the incineration of which one might think to be a better subject for Islamic protest than a possibly desecrated Quran, in a prison where every inmate is automatically issued with one.)

http://slate.msn.com/id/2118820/

Palestinians are morally bankrupt.

Just to restore some proper perspective, let me quote a snippet from a sermon delivered by Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris, which ran last weekend on the Palestinian Authority’s official TV station:

“The day will come when we will rule America. The day will come when we will rule Britain and the entire world - except for the Jews. The Jews will not enjoy a life of tranquillity under our rule because they are treacherous by nature, as they have been throughout history. The day will come when everything will be relieved of the Jews - even the stones and trees which were harmed by them. Listen to the Prophet Muhammad, who tells you about the evil end that awaits Jews. The stones and trees will want the Muslims to finish off every Jew.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/19/opinion/19brooks.html

“from a sermon delivered by Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris, which ran last weekend on the Palestinian Authority’s official TV station:”

I read it, and I’m not surprised. Until Muslims get off their anti-Jewish kick, I don’t care what happens to them. I say let them be persecuted…for once.

“I say let them be persecuted…for once.”

I agree. Let ‘em get their shit kicked around for awhile. It’s about time it happened. How can they possibly complain about being persecuted while they want to kill every Jew and Christian. World domination? Is that what Muslims really want? And why should we be so sympathetic toward the Palestinians after they so gleefully celebrated 9-11? Right in the damn streets with all the world watching!! Persecuted? I don’t think so.

I just read in the news today where some Muslims claim to have received a mail-order Koran with “Death to all Muslims” scrawled on the inside cover. Hey, how do we know they didn’t scrawl it themselves? Do they honestly expect the whole world to take their allegation at face value alone? Sorry, but if I were to place my unconditional belief in their claim without proof, then I must be wasting my time going to college. No way.

“I say let them be persecuted…for once.”

I agree. Let ‘em get their shit kicked around for awhile. It’s about time it happened. How can they possibly complain about being persecuted while they want to kill every Jew and Christian. World domination? Is that what Muslims really want? And why should we be so sympathetic toward the Palestinians after they so gleefully celebrated 9-11? Right in the damn streets with all the world watching!! Persecuted? I don’t think so.

I just read in the news today where some Muslims claim to have received a mail-order Koran with “Death to all Muslims” scrawled on the inside cover. Hey, how do we know they didn’t scrawl it themselves? Do they honestly expect the whole world to take their allegation at face value alone? Sorry, but if I were to place my unconditional belief in their claim without proof, then I must be wasting my time going to college. No way.

I want to see Andres Serrano work up a “Piss Muhammad” and “Piss Koran” to go with his “Piss Christ”. I suspect that Serrano wouldn’t last a week and that hundreds would die in riots all over the world.

After all, Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh was ritually murdered for artistically expressing his views on violence against women.

“I agree. Let ‘em get their shit kicked around for awhile. It’s about time it happened. How can they possibly complain about being persecuted while they want to kill every Jew and Christian. World domination? Is that what Muslims really want?”

Some do, like bin Laden. And they deserve to die.

“And why should we be so sympathetic toward the Palestinians after they so gleefully celebrated 9-11? Right in the damn streets with all the world watching!! Persecuted? I don’t think so.”

Again, correct. There is no good reason to sympathize with a group of people who celebrate the murder of thousands of innocent people.

But not all Muslims are like that. There are lots of good Muslims who hate bin Laden, Arafat, Saddam Hussein, al-Zarqawi, and other terrorists who falsely justify their bloody actions through religion.

Think of it this way: are the jihadis any different from people like Eric Rudolph (who bombed the Atlanta Olympics and several women’s health clinics), or James Kopp (who murdered an OB/GYN in front of his wife and children in their home just because the doctor performed abortions*), or the Crusaders of the Middle Ages (who raped, pillaged, and murdered their way across Europe and the Middle East)? Are they any different from people like Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) or Rep. Tom DeLay (R-TX), who have physically threatened federal judges for ruling according to the law rather than Christian priciples? Are they any different from Rev. Jerry Falwell, who says that all Catholics, Jews, atheists, and anyone who doesn’t espouse his particular version of Christianity will burn in hell for all eternity? Are they any different from the Mormons, who go so far as to posthumously convert people to their religion? Are they any different from secular Americans who have a visceral loathing for anything having to do with religion?

Any ideology can be taken too far, but we have no right to judge such large groups for the existence of a small minority (however dominant or powerful they may be) of genocidal megalomaniacs. If we paint them all with the same brush, we risk driving the sane ones into the arms of the assholes who deserve to die.

• Ironically, Kopp fled to France. The French initially refused to extradite him back to the US for trial because prosecutors refused to guarantee they wouldn’t seek the death penalty. In short, because of their opposition to what they see as state-sponsored murder, France sheltered a man who was very proud to have committed murder — another clear case of ideology being taken way too far.

Okay everyone, I’m starting a pool on how large this feedback string will get by, say, campus move out day. (Aug 14).

I call 400.

“But not all Muslims are like that. There are lots of good Muslims who hate bin Laden, Arafat, Saddam Hussein, al-Zarqawi, and other terrorists who falsely justify their bloody actions through religion.”

Yeah, but when’s the last time you ever heard a Muslim denounce hatred of Jews and Israel? When’s the time you ever heard a Muslim condemn suicide bombings? When’s the last time you ever heard a Muslim acknowledge that Muslim persecution of Jews and Christians should’ve ended along time ago?

If you can find one moment in history where just one Muslim spoke one word of humanity toward Jews and Christians, let us know.

“Yeah, but when’s the last time you ever heard a Muslim denounce hatred of Jews and Israel? When’s the time you ever heard a Muslim condemn suicide bombings? When’s the last time you ever heard a Muslim acknowledge that Muslim persecution of Jews and Christians should’ve ended along time ago?

If you can find one moment in history where just one Muslim spoke one word of humanity toward Jews and Christians, let us know.”

Do I really need to post the collected works of Ray Hananiah, Joseph Farah, Irshad Manji, and Ibn Warraq, or can I trust that you’re smart enough to find them on your own?

The problem isn’t that there aren’t any good Muslims who condemn the misappropriation of their religion. The problem is twofold: 1) that in large portions of the Muslim world, the people who misappropriate Islam are the people with the power to decide whether the good people live or die, and 2) the good Muslims just don’t get much exposure in national media. It seems the national media are more interested in perpetuating ugly stereotypes.

“It seems the national media are more interested in perpetuating ugly stereotypes.”

That might be true, and I concede that it probably is, but what about college papers like the BH? The BH only has Fayyad and Mohamed Abed. Neither can be counted as a “good Muslim,” and both are definitely among the terrorist loving bastardizers (and bastards) of Islam. I bet that if you surveyed major universities’ student newspapers, you would find 10 Fayyads for every good Muslim.

“It seems the national media are more interested in perpetuating ugly stereotypes.”

This is true ONLY with regard to the American military (and Jews of course). Muslims they treat with kid gloves lest they be offended.

“Do I really need to post the collected works of Ray Hananiah, Joseph Farah, Irshad Manji, and Ibn Warraq, or can I trust that you’re smart enough to find them on your own?”

Hey, you’re the one with a point to make! I just want to see you back it up. Don’t just say it, prove it! All I’m saying is that I have never heard or read a kind word about Jews from a Muslim. If any Muslims have ever uttered a kind word about Jews, then why don’t you point the way to the source? If Muslims have anything over Christians, then why didn’t they just react in a way that is more civilized when Newsweek printed that bullshit story about a Koran flushed down a toilet? Christians would’ve prayed for the person that did it, not riot in the streets and kill scores of innocent people. Hell, even Jews don’t even do that!

Now tell me if you think Muslims are civilized, pal. The bloodiest religious wars were fought by Muslims. Most religious wars PERIOD were fought by Muslims! Tell me why these bloodthirsty bastards deserve better treatment.

“But not all Muslims are like that. There are lots of good Muslims who hate bin Laden, Arafat, Saddam Hussein, al-Zarqawi, and other terrorists who falsely justify their bloody actions through religion.”

Are not even the “good Muslims” in favor of killing anyone who says anything insulting Muhammad or the Koran?

There is no way that sounds like a “good” person. There may be limits to free speech that are acceptable (i.e. no yelling fire in the theater) but no speech deserves the death penalty.

These days, all religion gets a bad rap, and the fanatics are to blame. Pretty soon people will lose all faith in a supreme being and trust in science instead. Why believe in a supernatural deity that we have no sense of while technology is gradually making life easier for us? It’s just a question of which religion we want to get rid of first. So if you want your religion to survive well into this century, you better get your act together. Too many people are tired of living in the Dark Ages.

Hypocrisy Most Holy Muslims should show some respect to others’ religions.

BY ALI AL-AHMED Friday, May 20, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110006712

As a Muslim, I am able to purchase copies of the Quran in any bookstore in any American city, and study its contents in countless American universities. American museums spend millions to exhibit and celebrate Muslim arts and heritage. On the other hand, my Christian and other non-Muslim brothers and sisters in Saudi Arabia—where I come from—are not even allowed to own a copy of their holy books. Indeed, the Saudi government desecrates and burns Bibles that its security forces confiscate at immigration points into the kingdom or during raids on Christian expatriates worshiping privately… .

The Saudi Embassy and other Saudi organizations in Washington have distributed hundreds of thousands of Qurans and many more Muslim books, some that have libeled Christians, Jews and others as pigs and monkeys. In Saudi school curricula, Jews and Christians are considered deviants and eternal enemies. By contrast, Muslim communities in the West are the first to admit that Western countries—especially the U.S.—provide Muslims the strongest freedoms and protections that allow Islam to thrive in the West. Meanwhile Christianity and Judaism, both indigenous to the Middle East, are maligned through systematic hostility by Middle Eastern governments and their religious apparatuses.

The lesson here is simple: If Muslims wish other religions to respect their beliefs and their Holy book, they should lead by example.

“Meanwhile Christianity and Judaism, both indigenous to the Middle East, are maligned through systematic hostility by Middle Eastern governments and their religious apparatuses.”

Welcome to the International Order Of Rational Thinkers Who May Someday Achieve Mutual Understanding And Tolerance Among Religions, Mr. Al-Ahmed. Glad to have you aboard!

The Muslim media’s culture of death

SHOAIB CHOUDHURY, THE JERUSALEM POST

Apr. 12, 2005

What a thrill it is for me to be here in Israel! You know, it might be unexpected from a Bangladeshi, but I must tell you that coming here has been a lifelong dream of mine. The moment I stepped off the plane and onto Israeli soil, I realized that dream; and I cannot thank you enough for helping to make it a reality.

Today, I stand before you perhaps as a living contradiction: a Zionist, a defender of Israel, and a devout, practicing Muslim living in a Muslim country.

Like you I believe in the justice of the Zionist dream. I also acknowledge this historical reality: that the world has endeavored to crush that dream and, yes, even destroy the viability of the Jewish people.

At the same time I live in an environment where people believe just as passionately in an opposing view that sees Israel as illegitimate and the Jewish people as evil incarnate. Witness the recent statement of outgoing Malaysian prime minister Mahathir Mohammed that “Jews rule the world.”

A true culture of peace is far more than the cessation of hostilities. It includes justice and tolerance for all people. It allows each person to have pride in one’s own faith, while respecting the pride that courses through the veins of those who follow other paths to God.

In Israel, you have any number of viewpoints being aired in any number of forums. You have Likud; you have Labor. You have Shas; you have Shinui. You have Peace Now; you have the Temple Mount Faithful. You have The Jerusalem Post; you have Haaretz.

Most of the Muslim world takes your diversity as a sign of weakness and disunity, a lack of resolve; we know it is your great strength. It’s messy, to be sure. But the fact that you do not feel it necessary to control the flow of information to your people means you respect them far more than we do ours

MEMRI: Arab Columnists: Terrorists Motivated by Cultural/Religious Factors, Not Poverty

Special Dispatch - Reform Project January 26, 2005 No. 853

Several Arab columnists have recently published articles critical of the view that the main motivation to terrorism is poverty or despair. They instead cite the role of cultural and religious factors in motivating terrorism, and particularly the incitement by sheikhs who encourage young men to conduct terror operations. The following are excerpts from three articles; one, by Muhammad Mahfouz, was published in the Saudi Gazette; another, by Abdallah Rashid, was published in the UAE Al-Itihad daily; and a third, by Abdallah Nasser Al-Fawzan, was published in the Saudi daily Al-Watan:

Saudi Columnist: ‘The Only Way to End Violence and Terrorism Is to Fight a Cultural and Ideological Battle’

In an article published in the Saudi Gazette, columnist Muhammad Mahfouz, who is also editor of the cultural magazine Al-Kalima, published in Lebanon, wrote:(1)

“It is an undeniable fact that social problems and phenomena [that] are ignored without determining their root causes will proliferate and surface repeatedly. But … their re-emergence will be associated with more complications and grow to the extent that they become incurable…

“This brings me to the phenomenon of terrorism, which is one of the most dangerous problems encountered [in] recent times, for it undermines the stability and security of all human societies. This shows that [an] external and superficial probing of the problem will not be effective until [we] delve deeply into its cultural and ideological roots…

“Of course the security efforts [are] one of the tools to fight terrorism … [but] the security efforts always need to be associated and supported with national, cultural, political, and socioeconomic efforts…

“The relationship between the phenomenon of terrorism in our society and culture is like the relationship between the cause and consequence. A thorough study of this phenomenon shows that the … real reason behind the mobilization of a handful of young men by this deviant group is purely cultural. This means that these youths were brought up in a special cultural atmosphere which finds its roots in a stereotyped understanding of religion. This understanding serves as a basic incubator to this group. This may explain the reason why some youths belonging to rich families and others who are well positioned in the state’s civil service hierarchy are implicated in terrorist crimes.

“This [means] that financial and economic factors can not be associated with this group. Therefore, it is a cultural and religious factor that motivated them [to kill] innocent people and destroy the country’s infrastructure.

“Thus, the only way to put an end to the wave of violence and terrorism is to fight a cultural and ideological battle against terrorism as well as [against] its direct and indirect causes. Without fighting this fateful battle, we will never succeed in eliminating this menace, and thus our country will suffer from this phenomenon from time to time.

“In my opinion, [any] delay in fighting this ideological cultural battle against terrorism will drag our country to abyss of instability. We need more than ever to … expose the phenomenon of terrorism and dismantle the cultural and ideological incubators which feed this phenomenon and mold it socially and culturally.

“This brings me again to the point that the elimination of terrorism and violence are associated with uprooting the culture of violence which promotes killing, justifies terrorism, and provides it with a legitimate cover.

“[On the other hand,] the security battle will not help much in putting an end to this phenomenon. On the contrary, it may give it a justification [to continue].

“Thus, I find it necessary to elaborate on these points: The phenomenon of terrorism and violence we are facing can be classified as religious violence carried out by a group of brain-washed youth influenced by glamorous slogans. This requires us to re-formulate the prevailing religious concepts and implant in their minds other religious values, such as the values of dialogue and religious tolerance, as well as recognizing pluralism. Thus … we need to formulate a new religious vision isolating and freeing it of all the facets of extremism and fundamentalism.

“… Confronting … this phenomenon requires bold decisions and policies because any laxity in this matter will cost the country more lives and destruction, [and for this] we need transparency and courage to put an end to this poisonous menace.

“Our determination will pave the way for successfully dismantling the ideological and cultural structure that offers fertile ground for the proliferation of this phenomenon. Moreover, the formulation of new religious concepts based on dialogue inspiring the values of Islam and its civilization will make it necessary to allow the [entire] spectrum of society to participate in molding these new concepts…

“Thus, the coming battle of our country is the battle of culture and thought to fight and defeat terrorism in all its stages.”

UAE Writer: The Reason for Arab Muslim Youth Involvement in Terrorism is Religious Brainwashing

In an article in the United Arab Emirates daily Al-Itihad, columnist Abdallah Rashid stated that the reason for terrorism is not the socio-economic situation in the Arab countries, but the religious brainwashing of Arab youth. The following are excerpts:

“The greatest mistake of the social and political commentators is their attributing the cause for the spreading of the phenomenon of terrorism in the Arab and Islamic world solely to the lack of social justice, the spreading of poverty, and the harsh social conditions in most of the Arab and Islamic countries.

“The socio-economic situation of most of the terrorists who participate in the criminal operations around the world is very good. Thus, for example, Faysal Zayd Al-Matiri, a young Kuwaiti man from an economically well-off family, went to Fallujah to fight alongside the terrorists supporting the Al-Qa’ida organization, together with the terrorist Abu Mus’ab Al-Zarqawi. He left behind his parents, his wife, and his three girls. He was killed in the fighting, leaving a widow, three orphan girls, and stricken parents mourning his death…

“Interrogations by the Iraqi authorities of terrorists arrested during raids and searches in Iraqi towns revealed that most of the Saudi youth and some of the [youth] from the Gulf who went to Iraq to join the Al-Qa’ida terrorist groups come from families that are not poor and from a social environment that does not suffer from economic problems.

“What is the reason for the involvement of the Arab Muslim youth in such criminal and despicable acts?

“The simple reason is the terrifying brainwashing suffered by most of the Arab youth at the hands of ‘religious clerics’ and particularly at the hands of the extremists with backward views. [These ‘clerics’] nourish the Muslim youth with various kinds of racist views and destructive extremist principles, and nurse them with hostility, hatred, and resentment towards other people and towards members of other divine religions.

“Those who award themselves the title of ‘religious clerics’ incite Muslim youth to what they call ‘Jihad,’ while they do not know the meaning of Jihad. What is odd is that they incite others to cross seas and oceans in order to fight ‘the atheist and Christian infidels,’ as they put it, while not one of them volunteers to go [there] himself and to serve as a model and an example to others…

“So many victims of the brainwashing to which Arab youth are subjected! So many people attribute the reason for these youths joining the caravan of terror to the socio-economic situation [in Arab and Islamic countries], all the while ignoring the fact that there are thousands of youth from peaceful households, from stable families and from rich families who join the gangs of terror, the most prominent leaders of which are bin Laden, Al-Zawahiri, and Al-Zarqawi!…”(2)

Saudi Columnist: Why Don’t the Sheikhs Who Encourage the Youth to Fight Jihad Do So Themselves?

In an article in the Saudi daily Al-Watan titled “Question to the Youth Seeking Paradise,” Saudi columnist Abdallah Nasser Al-Fawzan criticized the sheikhs who encourage youth to fight Jihad but refrain from doing so themselves:

“If there is a worthy deed that endangers one’s life, but guarantees [one’s reaching] paradise, like Jihad for the sake of Allah - are we to suppose that young teenagers in the early stages of life should aspire to carry it out? Or should it rather be the elderly, nearing death, [for whom] it is natural to aspire to end their lives through an honorable deed that will guarantee them paradise?

“Logically, and as reality shows us, the correct answer is the second one. Thus, for instance, youth indeed participated in Jihad for the sake of Allah in the era of the Rightly-Guided Caliphs, but it [i.e., their Jihad] depended principally on middle-aged men, and the elderly took part in every mission appropriate for their age…

“If adults took part in Jihad [in that era], why do we find today that all those involved in what they claim are ‘Jihad’ operations - whether in Iraq or here [in Saudi Arabia] - are young teenagers, and we do not see among them any adults or elderly people?… After all, the elderly are quite capable of carrying out missions in the best possible manner. An old man over 100 years old can drive a booby-trapped car and explode it in a given area, perhaps even with greater expertise than a 20-year-old.

“In one of his quests for paradise, a youth traveled to another country in order to kill a man accused of atheism, in order to get closer to Allah by killing him, and thus to reach paradise. Fate had it that the man accused of atheism was the first one to meet the youth in a cafe. He saw him sitting there and realized that he was a foreigner. The man addressed him, shook his hand, welcomed him, and asked if he might sit next to the youth. The latter gave his consent. They had a friendly talk, and got to like one another.

“Afterwards the youth asked him, ‘Do you know so-and-so?’ The man saw that the youth had mentioned him by name and was startled, but he controlled his emotions and asked the youth, ‘Why are you inquiring about this man?’ The youth said that the man was an evil atheist and that he intended to rescue people from his evildoing in order to get closer to Allah and to reach paradise. The man, who was by now quite amazed, said to the youth, ‘How are you so certain that this man is an atheist deserving of death, and that killing him will bring you to paradise?’ The youth responded, ‘Some sheikhs told me so.’… The man said, ‘Why don’t these sheikhs aspire to reach paradise themselves, and why are they giving up for your sake [the merit of] carrying out this honorable deed which brings one to paradise?’ The youth was embarrassed and said, ‘I don’t know.’

“Today, the same question that the man asked the paradise-seeking youth could be addressed to the youth who blow themselves up and explode booby-trapped cars while still inside them, in order to reach paradise, for they are without doubt influenced by the Fatwas, the ideas, the inclinations, and the instructions of men who have gained their trust and have done much to influence them.

“These people who hold sway over the minds of the youth have deceived them into thinking that what they are doing is an act of Jihad that will bring them to paradise. These youth should ask themselves why it is that these people prefer them [i.e., the youth] to themselves, and give up for their sake [the merit of carrying out] the ‘honorable’ deed that would bring them to paradise.

“In true acts of Jihad, everyone participated, including the Prophet and his sublime Companions. Today, however, those who carry out these dangerous acts, which are considered to be Jihad, are youth who have been influenced [by the sheikhs] and have turned into bullets. Where are the adults and the elderly? Where are the adults who have been influenced by the organization’s ideology? Is there not a single elderly person convinced that this is an act of Jihad? Is there not a single elderly person who would blow himself up or explode a booby-trapped car?

“Oh youth, you who seek paradise, where are your sheikhs [when it comes to] this ‘honorable deed’?… Everybody wants paradise. Why then, oh youth, are your sheikhs shirking [Jihad], and not participating in your ‘honorable’ mission.”(3)

Endnotes: (1) Saudi Gazette (Saudi Arabia), December 30, 2004. (2) Al-Itihad (UAE), January 10, 2005. (3) Al-Watan (Saudi Arabia), January 1, 2005.

If you wish to quote tings that long instead of providing a link - PUT IT THU AN EDITOR THAT CAN STRIP OUT THE EXTRA LINE FEEDS!!!

OK - two Muslims not calling for immediate death to all infidels, but I still wonder if they would support killing blasphemers.

Irshad Manji, from The Trouble With Islam: A Muslim’s Call for Reform in Her Faith:

“I hear from a Saudi friend that his country’s religious police arrest women for wearing red on Valentines Day, and I think, Since when does a merciful God outlaw joy—or fun? I read about victims of rape being stoned for “adultery” and I wonder how a critical mass of us can stay stone silent.”

Also Irshad Manji, from the same book:

“What’s with the stubborn streak of anti-Semitism in Islam? Who is the real colonizer of the Muslims—-America or Arabia? Why are we squandering the talents of women, fully half of God’s creation?”

Hey, it’s nice to see Muslims speaking out against the anti-Jewish element in the Muslim faith, but we need to take it further. Muslims in general need to be educated about the origins of Muslim anti-Semitism and why it should be eliminated from Islamic teachings everywhere. Muslim clerics should be barred from attempting to indoctrinate students of Islam with anti-Jewish ideology. Discriminatory laws that affect Jews in Arab countries should repealed. Jews who may have been barred from leaving Islamic countries should be allowed to leave peacefully and without unnecessary delay.

Lots of things need to change in order to convince the rest of the world that there is serious commitment to human rights. We’ll be watching.

It’s all Abraham’s fault, he never shoud have shtupped Hagar the Egyptian.

“It’s all Abraham’s fault, he never shoud have shtupped Hagar the Egyptian.”

Yeah, he’s lucky Sarah didn’t whomp ‘im with a frying pan. What broad wouldn’t?

Sarah told Abraham to go and lay next to their slave, Hagar, and have a baby. Sure enough, Abraham and Hagar bore a child named Ishmael.

Sarah told Abraham to go and lay next to their slave, Hagar, and have a baby. Sure enough, Abraham and Hagar bore a child named Ishmael.

“Sarah told Abraham to go and lay next to their slave, Hagar, and have a baby. Sure enough, Abraham and Hagar bore a child named Ishmael.”

Man, I used to party with Ishmael down in Milwaukee! Hey, Ishmael, if you read this, Whassuuuuuup!

A Wahhabi War at Rutgers University By Stephen Schwartz FrontPageMagazine.com | May 18, 2005

The Center for Islamic Pluralism in Washington, of which I am the Executive Director has been interested for some time in the situation of American Muslim students in the Rutgers University system — the state university of New Jersey.

Young Muslims at Rutgers are unhappy that Islamic activities on campus — funded by the university, i.e. the state authorities — are dominated by adherents of the Wahhabi lobby, the American Muslim establishment. The Wahhabi lobby consists of a cluster of organizations backed by Saudi Arabia and professing the doctrines of the Wahhabi sect, the most radical form of Islam. Wahhabism is the exclusive, state religion in the Saudi kingdom.

In April, the Islamic Society of Rutgers University (ISRU) held an election. ISRU has more than four hundred members and receives significant financing from the university system. A courageous Muslim woman student named Fatima Agha has informed CIP and others of events she witnessed during the ISRU election campaign, and which she believes violate university policy.

On April 21, a university employee named Mostafa Khalifa delivered a lecture to ISRU members on the nature of leadership. The apparent intent of the lecture was to assure that the ISRU election would have an “Islamic,” rather than a democratic and American character. Ms. Agha described Khalifa as an exponent of “fundamentalist thought.” She complained that he not only exploited his position as a university functionary to support his ideological agenda, but that, since he is an alumnus of the university and not a student, as well as older than the students, his involvement in the voting process represented an inappropriate effort to steer students away from voting according to their own preferences and opinions.

Further, Ms. Agha complained, “His participation exert(ed) a chilling effect on the participation of any students who disagree with his ideas and all of whom are younger than he.” For anyone who knows the American Muslim community, the ‘shock of recognition’ is immediate: in the authority-driven environment of American Islam, older males are listened to, obeyed and almost never challenged.

When voting itself took place, it was announced at the meeting that four male positions and three female positions were contested. According to Ms. Agha, there was no precedent for this decision in ISRU, yet it indicated that ISRU considers women students a lesser group — and thus supporting one of the most serious charges leveled against Islam, that of sex discrimination.

While many religions, including Islam, restrict pastoral activities by women, barring them from leading services and similar duties, ISRU is supposed to be a student service organization for the betterment of life on the Rutgers campus. It must therefore adhere to state and federal laws against sex discrimination. The board of ISRU does not have religious responsibilities, and Ms. Agha therefore challenges its establishment of a sex or gender standard for membership.

The seven elected representatives would then choose the ISRU president, who would bear the title “amir” or “commander.” This last detail, showing that ISRU had adopted the vocabulary of a paramilitary group rather than a student organization, is the most disturbing element in this story. Ms. Agha notes that, as announced during the elections, the “amir” of the Rutgers Muslim students would be required to be male and would enjoy “dictatorial power.”

According to Ms. Agha, aside from the interloper, Mostafa Khalifa, the participants in the election, i.e. the candidates, were forbidden to make speeches; election tellers did not identify qualified voters or provide a structure to ensure fairness - they did not even ask to see Rutgers I.D.

In other words, the Islamic Society of Rutgers University has established a little Saudi Arabia on the Rutgers campuses, in which Muslims are required to abide by the authoritarian whims characteristic of Wahhabi governance. Ms. Agha has also alleged that ISRU leaders ostracize Muslim women students if they attend its meetings without wearing a headscarf. She described ISRU as a power unto itself, unaccountable to the university; it presents weekly speeches and lectures but ignores university requirements for contracting of speakers.

Further, and again embodying the Wahhabi manner, ISRU frequently sponsors lecturers who attack the beliefs of Shia and other pluralistic traditions in Islam, and engage in hate speech against non-Wahhabi believers. Ms. Agha describes ISRU as a university-subsidized vehicle for discrimination. For example, on the day of the election a Shia student, identified only as Ali, was told during Muslim prayer that, as a Shia, he was praying incorrectly by not observing the Sunni ritual. Such acts of harassment are also commonly alleged by Shia prisoners in the New York State correctional system, who have entered a legal complaint against the Wahhabi monopoly over the hiring of prison imams. Muslim clerics throughout the federal and state prisons are Wahhabis, routinely victimizing Shia Muslims who have the bad fortune to cross their paths - including by prison violence.

Ms. Agha writes accurately and eloquently, “Unfortunately, although the Rutgers University Administration has helped and funded ISRU because of the University’s desire to be fair and equitable to students of all religions… funding for ISRU only serves to inflame sectarian differences and create hostile environments for certain members of the Rutgers student body.”

On an official website, www.muslims.rutgers.edu, under the heading “Fundamentals of Islam Monotheism (Tawheed)”, ISRU reproduces a screed by Bilal Phillips, a notorious American Wahhabi. Phillips expresses hatred of the Sufi tradition in Islam in a vulgar mass of insults and stupid fabrications against outstanding Muslim spiritual figures and practices. The site also promotes da’wa or Muslim missionization by the Islamic Circle of North America, a bullying Wahhabi militia active run by extremists from Pakistan. According to Ms. Agha, state money granted to ISRU maintains “an organization that mocks the beliefs of others and only perpetuates negative stereotypes… [and] an atmosphere of intolerance.”

Nearing graduation, Ms. Agha warns that the university she will leave behind is “a place where a young woman such as myself… is made to feel inferior.” Indeed, she asserts that second-class status is imposed on all the women students in her particular college, Douglass. She adds, “Many students do not speak out for fear of ostracism or retribution.”

Fatima Agha has called for new elections to be held in ISRU, or failing that, a recount of votes under outside supervision. She has demanded that until ISRU cleans up its practices, its campus funding be denied.

Ms. Agha has taken a step that is potentially historic for thousands of American Muslim college students. The Center for Islamic Pluralism and I will assist her to the maximum of our ability, and we call on other Americans, committed to all religions and to real democracy, to do the same. Let us hope that the democracy America is fighting to establish in Iraq, with the help of Shia Muslims, may also regain its proper status at college campuses in New Jersey.

From the Wall Street Journal:

Hypocrisy Most Holy Muslims should show some respect to others’ religions.

BY ALI AL-AHMED Friday, May 20, 2005 12:01 a.m.

With the revelation that a copy of the Quran may have been desecrated by U.S. military personnel at Guantanamo Bay, Muslims and their governments—including that of Saudi Arabia—reacted angrily. This anger would have been understandable if the U.S. government’s adopted policy was to desecrate our Quran. But even before the Newsweek report was discredited, that was never part of the allegations. As a Muslim, I am able to purchase copies of the Quran in any bookstore in any American city, and study its contents in countless American universities. American museums spend millions to exhibit and celebrate Muslim arts and heritage. On the other hand, my Christian and other non-Muslim brothers and sisters in Saudi Arabia—where I come from—are not even allowed to own a copy of their holy books. Indeed, the Saudi government desecrates and burns Bibles that its security forces confiscate at immigration points into the kingdom or during raids on Christian expatriates worshiping privately.

Soon after Newsweek published an account, later retracted, of an American soldier flushing a copy of the Quran down the toilet, the Saudi government voiced its strenuous disapproval. More specifically, the Saudi Embassy in Washington expressed “great concern” and urged the U.S. to “conduct a quick investigation.” Although considered as holy in Islam and mentioned in the Quran dozens of times, the Bible is banned in Saudi Arabia. This would seem curious to most people because of the fact that to most Muslims, the Bible is a holy book. But when it comes to Saudi Arabia we are not talking about most Muslims, but a tiny minority of hard-liners who constitute the Wahhabi Sect.

The Bible in Saudi Arabia may get a person killed, arrested, or deported. In September 1993, Sadeq Mallallah, 23, was beheaded in Qateef on a charge of apostasy for owning a Bible. The State Department’s annual human rights reports detail the arrest and deportation of many Christian worshipers every year. Just days before Crown Prince Abdullah met President Bush last month, two Christian gatherings were stormed in Riyadh. Bibles and crosses were confiscated, and will be incinerated. (The Saudi government does not even spare the Quran from desecration. On Oct. 14, 2004, dozens of Saudi men and women carried copies of the Quran as they protested in support of reformers in the capital, Riyadh. Although they carried the Qurans in part to protect themselves from assault by police, they were charged by hundreds of riot police, who stepped on the books with their shoes, according to one of the protesters.)

As Muslims, we have not been as generous as our Christian and Jewish counterparts in respecting others’ holy books and religious symbols. Saudi Arabia bans the importation or the display of crosses, Stars of David or any other religious symbols not approved by the Wahhabi establishment. TV programs that show Christian clergymen, crosses or Stars of David are censored.

The desecration of religious texts and symbols and intolerance of varying religious viewpoints and beliefs have been issues of some controversy inside Saudi Arabia. Ruled by a Wahhabi theocracy, the ruling elite of Saudi Arabia have made it difficult for Christians, Jews, Hindus and others, as well as dissenting sects of Islam, to visibly coexist inside the kingdom.

Another way in which religious and cultural issues are becoming more divisive is the Saudi treatment of Americans who are living in that country: Around 30,000 live and work in various parts of Saudi Arabia. These people are not allowed to celebrate their religious or even secular holidays. These include Christmas and Easter, but also Thanksgiving. All other Gulf states allow non-Islamic holidays to be celebrated.

The Saudi Embassy and other Saudi organizations in Washington have distributed hundreds of thousands of Qurans and many more Muslim books, some that have libeled Christians, Jews and others as pigs and monkeys. In Saudi school curricula, Jews and Christians are considered deviants and eternal enemies. By contrast, Muslim communities in the West are the first to admit that Western countries—especially the U.S.—provide Muslims the strongest freedoms and protections that allow Islam to thrive in the West. Meanwhile Christianity and Judaism, both indigenous to the Middle East, are maligned through systematic hostility by Middle Eastern governments and their religious apparatuses. The lesson here is simple: If Muslims wish other religions to respect their beliefs and their Holy book, they should lead by example. Mr. al-Ahmed is director of the Saudi Institute in Washington.

Hey, I’m looking for Ishmael too. Motherfucker owes me twenty bucks! Ishmael, where’s my money?!

Q. When is it politically correct to beat gays and kill women?

A. When the beaters and killers are “oppressed Muslims”!

http://www.reason.com/cy/cy051705.shtml

On April 30, American journalist Chris Crain became the victim of a hate crime in Amsterdam. While walking in the street holding hands with his partner, he was savagely beaten by seven men shouting antigay slurs. A few days later, Scott Long, director of the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Program at the Human Rights Watch, expressed some sympathy for the gay-bashers. Crain’s attackers were reportedly Moroccan immigrants.

Fayyad must be doing vigins in his SUV?

“Fayyad must be doing vigins in his SUV?”

Nah! He’d have to have blown himself up somewhere before he’d see even one virgin.

Ishmael, I’m still waiting for my $20! Pay up, asshole!

In an effort to shed light on the historical existence of the Palestinians as a people, Elder of Ziyon looked into old newspaper clippings to see how they used the word "Palestinian." His research of back issues of the Palestine Post (now the Jerusalem Post) Washington Post, and New York Times led to this conclusion:

“As is clear, at least in Palestine, the word “Palestinian” usually referred to Jews, not Arabs.”

For years, the NY Times was always clear about distinguishing between "Palestinian Jews" and "Palestinian Arabs." The Times' earliest earliest use of the sole word "Palestinian" as an unequivocal description of Arabs was only published in November, 1963. Meanwhile, the Washington Post also described the Jews as "Palestinian Jews," while referring to Arabs as "Arabs," or sometimes as "Beduins" or "Nationalist Arabs."

Last night, Palestinian security and Hamas clashed in a refugee camp when the police tried to stop a mortar crew firing rockets. AP notes that after the fight, the PA Interior Ministry accused Hamas of using civilians for cover:

“The Palestinian Interior Ministry charged that Hamas militants used civilians as shields and eight officers were hurt by rocks. "This cannot be accepted and this serious violation will not pass (unanswered)," a ministry statement said.”

http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/5411488.html

Deny the Use of the University of Wisconsin Campus to Supporters of Terrorism

http://www.petitiononline.com/stopPSM/petition.html

To: Chancellor John D. Wiley, University of Wisconsin

As students, alumni, and concerned citizens, we urge you to deny the use of meeting space on the University of Wisconsin, Madison campus to the National Conference of the Palestine Solidarity Movement, an anti-Semitic organization that condones terrorism and suicide bombing.

When the Palestine Solidarity Movement held its National Conference at the University of Michigan in October, 2002, delegates chanted “Kill the Jews.”

When the Solidarity Movement planned to hold a meeting at Rutgers, swastikas appeared on campus buildings, including the Hillel House and the AEPi fraternity.

When the Solidarity Movement met at Duke, undergraduates felt empowered to publish flagrantly anti-Semitic editorial columns in the Duke Chronicle, and there was a staff editorial that approved of support for Palestinian terrorism as "an effective means of furthering the (Palestine Solidarity Movement's) goals."

The goals of the Palestine Solidarity Movement include the destruction of the State of Israel "by any means necessary." Israel would be replaced with a Muslim state, this is sometimes referred to as a "one-state solution." Movement tactics include advocating divestment and demonizing Jews with anti-Semitic rhetoric and canards. Delegates at the Duke conference cheered loudly when a proposal to repudiate terrorism as a "guiding principle" was voted down.

Speakers at PSM workshops refer to the national aspirations of the Jewish people as a "disease," trot out hoary canards about "Jewish control" of the media, the United States government, or American universities, and spout hate-filled slogans about Israel being a Nazi state.

In 2003, the Solidarity Movement scheduled its National Conference for the Rutgers campus. University President Richard McCormick took a careful look at the goals and methods of this movement, which recruits students to travel to Israel where they work in coordination with Hamas and Islamic Jihad under the auspices of the terror-supporting International Solidarity Movement, and at the group's blatantly anti-Semitic rhetoric. In the words of the New Jersey Star Ledger (Sept. 13, 2003) McCormick "kicked the meeting off campus."

The Conference was held at the Ramada Inn. Rutgers withheld its name and prestige from a Movement that condones terrorism and promotes the hatred of Jews.

At the October, 2004 meeting at Duke, the Palestine Solidarity Movement announced its intention to hold its Fifth National Convention at the University of Wisconsin, Madison.

We urge you to deny this anti-Semitic, terrorism-supporting group the prestige of meeting space at the University of Wisconsin. (The Jewish Action Task Force urges all signers of this petition to write directly to Chancellor Wiley chancellor@news.wisc.edu. A sample letter and further information are available at: http://UWisc.JAT-Action.org/

The religion of peace indeed!

IRAN: VOTE FOR RAFSANJANI AND WE WILL HAVE NUCLEAR BOMBS, SAYS RELIGIOUS LEADER

Tehran, 27 May (AKI) - Hojatolislam Gholam Reza Hasani, a representative of Iran’s supreme spiritual leader, Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei, in Iranian Azerbaijan, has no doubts as to who to vote for in the next presidential elections on 17 June. “You need to vote for Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani,” said Hasani. “This way we will finally be able to have for ourselves the atomic bomb to fairly stand up to Israeli weapons,” said Hasani.

“Freedom, democracy and stupidities of this type cannot be carried over to any part, and these concepts are out of sync with the principles of Islam,” said Hasani, the imam who led Friday prayers in the main city of western Iranian Azerbaijian.

“Islam always spoke with the sword in the hand and I don’t see why now we have changed attitudes and talk with the other civilisations.”

http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Politics&loid=8.0.171686888&par=0

May 30, 2005

Woman and her 4-year-old niece shot dead after Ramle Bar Mitzva

By Yuval Azoulay, Haaretz Correspondent and Haaretz Staff

A woman and her four-year-old niece were shot to death near Ramle predawn on Monday, as they were driving home from a Bar and Bat Mitzva.

Police think the shootout may have been a failed atempt by underworld figures seeking revenge. Police said the shooting may have been the result of mistaken identity on the part of the killers.

Two other family members were wounded seriously and two were lightly wounded in the attack. Among those who were wounded are two children.

A preliminary investigation indicated that the family was riding in their car near Ramle prison on their way home from a banquet hall, when gunmen opened fire on them.

Paramedics rushed the wounded to Assaf Harofeh Hospital next to the Israel Defense Forces base of Tzrifin.

A police force headed by Commander Yifrah Duchovny and Central District Commander Major General Benny Kaniak arrived at the scene of the shooting and were investigating the issue.

Police searched the area around Ramle and Lod, and used helicopters to try and locate the shooters.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=581850

“Islam is not a religion. Considering Islam a religion is a foolish mistake that could cost millions of lives. Islam is a political movement set to conquer the world. It is the Borg of the non-fictional world. Islam has one goal and one goal alone: to assimilate or to destroy.”

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/FH10Aa01.html

“Islam is not a religion. Considering Islam a religion is a foolish mistake that could cost millions of lives. Islam is a political movement set to conquer the world. It is the Borg of the non-fictional world. Islam has one goal and one goal alone: to assimilate or to destroy.”

Wrong, wrong, wrong. How many times do you nutwings need to be told that exaggeration hurts your cause more than it helps?

Islam very much is a religion. Like any religion, it has fundamentalist branches, and some of those branches (like Wahhabism) may be bent on world domination. Christianity has them too — how else do you explain the popularity of such demagogues as Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, and Fred Phelps?

“Christianity has them too — how else do you explain the popularity of such demagogues as Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, and Fred Phelps?”

None of these advocate murdering of all unbelievers. They do not advocate the death penalty for blasphemy or apostasy.

As an atheist, I appreciate that attitude in a religious demagogue. I don’t see this in Islam. Go ahead, be an artist in an Islamic country, do a “Piss Koran” and then see if you survive the week. All the Christians did about the “Piss Christ” was piss, moan and try to smash it - they didn’t try to kill the artist.

These people may just know a bit more about Islam than you do.

http://www.faithfreedom.org Fight Islamic militancy, militarily and its ideology, ideologically. These are the two fronts of the war against barbarism.

“None of these advocate murdering of all unbelievers. They do not advocate the death penalty for blasphemy or apostasy.”

No, just for jaywalking.

“No, just for jaywalking.”

How many times do you nutwings need to be told that exaggeration hurts your cause more than it helps?

Kanan Makiya: “All Levels of the Iraqi Government Were Complicit.” Interview with Kanan Makiya, May 31, 2005 Home Search Forum Terms

Middle East Quarterly* Spring 2005 http://www.meforum.org/article/718 * Cross-posted with permission

Kanan Makiya is among Iraq’s most prominent democracy and human rights advocates. Born in Baghdad in 1949, he left Iraq in 1968 to study architecture at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology but, starting in 1981, dedicated himself to advocacy for a free Iraq and the study of tyranny. His 1989 book, Republic of Fear: The Politics of Modern Iraq,[1] offered a rare glimpse into the inner workings of Saddam Hussein’s Baathist regime. Other works followed, including The Monument,[2] and the prize-winning Cruelty and Silence: War, Tyranny, Uprising, and the Arab World.[3]

Following the 1991 Iraqi Kurdish uprising, Makiya visited northern Iraq where he organized the collection of captured Iraqi military and security documents. These documents became the basis for an award-winning 1992 documentary, Saddam’s Killing Fields, describing Saddam Hussein’s ethnic cleansing campaign against the Kurds. In 1993, he also organized the Iraq Research and Documentation Project at Harvard University in order to catalogue the documents and make them accessible to scholars.

Since Saddam Hussein’s April 2003 ouster, Makiya has been a leading advocate for de-Baathification and a commemoration of the victims of Baathist tyranny. In June 2003, he founded the Iraq Memory Foundation. He is also a professor of Islamic and Middle Eastern studies at Brandeis University. Sam Spector, a research analyst at the Long-Term Strategy Project, interviewed Makiya in Cambridge, Massachusetts, on January 26, 2005.

The Nature of Iraqi Baathism Middle East Quarterly: What is Baathism?

Kanan Makiya: Baathism is one of the many streams of Arab nationalist ideology and practice. It is undoubtedly the most virulent strain. While Michel Aflaq, one of the founders of the Baath party, was interested in fascist ideology, the party started to fuse elements of socialist ideology with Arab nationalism after World War II.

MEQ: If Baathism is a form of Arab nationalism, how do Baathists define who is an Arab?

Makiya: To Baathists, being an Arab is connected with the degree of loyalty that one has, not only to the idea of “Arabness,” but also to the party that carries that idea, that party’s central committee, and ultimately, to the party leader. In that sense, it is fascist. Baathist ideology in the pure original sense means you could have ancestors going back hundreds of years in an Arab country and your first language might be Arabic, but still you are not an Arab in the Baathist view. The quality of being an Arab is therefore a subjective and not an objective attribute of an individual.

MEQ: How did the Baath Party exert control in Iraq?

Makiya: The Baath Party cultivated a culture of fear when it seized power in Iraq in 1968. Fear became an important and constant feature of Iraqi politics. It is difficult, even two years after the regime’s overthrow, to underestimate the impact upon Iraq’s population of three decades of fear inculcated on a daily basis by virtually every state institution.

MEQ: Have your views about the nature of Baathist tyranny changed since Iraq’s liberation?

Makiya: The basic thesis of Republic of Fear was accurate through the 1980s and the early 1990s when that state was still strong and in control of the country. But the 1991 Gulf war began to change all that. Iraq transformed from a classic totalitarian state to a criminal state. While sanctions and war let Saddam’s regime remain, beginning with the creation of the safe haven [in northern Iraq] and the sanctions, class totalitarian Baathist institutions were eroded in ways that we did not appreciate before the liberation.

MEQ: How did the criminalization of Iraqi institutions impact political life?

Makiya: Initially, and in sharp contrast to much of the Arab world, corruption was much less rampant in Iraq under the Baathist regime. The penalties for corruption were simply too great. The party ran an efficient system that was designed to control the people. Once the Baathist elite began to shed ideology, Iraqi officials began to use the powers of the state for personal benefit through criminal activities of one kind or another. State institutions became riddled with corruption and eventually stopped performing even basic services.

MEQ: Were the highest echelons of the Iraqi government involved, or was corruption a low-level affair?

Makiya: All levels of the government were complicit. Profiteering, black market trafficking, and sanctions-busting became the principal activity of the Iraqi elite. United Nations officials turned a blind eye as top Iraqi officials diverted funds from the U.N.-managed Oil-for-Food program into secret bank accounts.

MEQ: Were sanctions effective?

Makiya: The idea behind the sanctions was that they would weaken the regime enough so that the Iraqi people could overthrow it. But it turns out the theory of sanctions didn’t work out that way in practice. On the contrary, while sanctions weakened Iraq’s ability to threaten its neighbors, they strengthened the Iraqi regime in relation to the Iraqi people.

MEQ: So the coalition invasion in March 2003 served, to some degree, as a catalyst for changing an unsustainable situation?

Makiya: The war made it possible for the country to have a chance—I am not saying a guarantee—of moving ahead in a democratic fashion. The sanctions could not be removed before the regime was removed, and only then could the country pick itself up again. With the removal of the old regime and the elections, we have reached the beginning of a new era. Baathist ideology has, I believe, been dealt a deathblow in Iraq.

MEQ: On April 9, 2003, you watched the fall of Baghdad on television with President George W. Bush in the Oval Office. Can you describe your feeling?

Makiya: It was a wonderful moment. I think that the liberation of Iraq is a great historic achievement of the United States, and I think that it will go down in history as such. I am very proud to have been in that room on that day.

De-Baathification MEQ: Do you believe that de-Baathification, purging high-ranking Baathists from government in the new Iraq, is necessary?

Makiya: I was one of the people who most strongly advocated de-Baathification, and I remain convinced that this process has yet to take place to the necessary degree in Iraq for truly successful transformation. Germany was the main historical precedent for this sort of broad political and societal transformation that we in the Iraqi opposition all looked back to.

MEQ: Is it fair to penalize Iraqis for joining the Baath party? After all, didn’t teachers and public servants have to join the Baath party to keep their jobs?

Makiya: Crucial to the policy of de-Baathification is reaching out to those many hundreds of thousands of people who were fellow travelers of the Baath party—not out of ideological conviction, but out of necessity. They had no alternative, and that was the only way to function in society.

MEQ: How then, do you suggest that de-Baathification could be implemented more effectively and fairly?

Makiya: It is important that there be an open-hearted policy—one that welcomes people to break with the Baath party and enter the fold of society and politics. De-Baathification ought not to be about blacklisting large numbers of people. It is important that de-Baathification not become de-Sunnification. The Sunni community should not believe the policy is in the first place directed against them. Iraqi Shi'ite and Kurdish politicians have to be extremely sensitive to make that distinction. And, remember, this is a matter of perception, as well as practice. Partly for that reason, we have not in Iraq yet succeeded with de-Baathification. Moreover, de-Baathification is not in and of itself a solution to the problems of Iraq. It is only one component of a set of other policies. It really has to be seen in that context.

MEQ: What is the status of the Supreme National Commission for De-Baathification today?

Makiya: It was the major player during the period of the Governing Council, but it was weakened considerably, first by [former Coalition Provisional Authority administrator L. Paul] Bremer, and then by [prime minister Ayad] Allawi’s interim government.

MEQ: What message did the partial reversal of de-Baathification send?

Makiya: The formation of the Fallujah Brigade [in April 2004] was an essential moment in the reversal of de-Baathification. It was by common agreement today a terrible idea and a failure. Its point was to recruit and co-opt former Iraqi officers, who were even allowed to dress up in Baathist uniforms. That kind of reversal had more to do with appeasement—with the vain hope that appeasing Baathists could curb the violence. But the exact opposite, of course, is true. Whether they were for or against de-Baathification, Iraqis recognize what a disastrous policy this reversal was. I expect de-Baathification to become a central plank of the new government.

MEQ: Didn’t de-Baathification exacerbate the insurgency among Sunnis?

Makiya: I think the insurgency would have happened anyway. It did not so much exacerbate the insurgency as make it harder for many Sunnis to break with the insurgency. Iraqi politicians did not explain adequately that de-Baathification did not mean de-Sunnification. We who advocate this idea need to do a lot more in that department. Ironically, the insurgency has made this harder to do.

MEQ: What is the goal of the insurgency?

Makiya: The insurgents don’t want to re-launch the Baath party; they want to return to its politics, its way of thinking about the world. They seek to exacerbate a Sunni-Shi'ite division. Once the conflict is cast in those particular terms, they win. It is, therefore, in the interest of all Iraqis to resist such a transformation. It is important to frame the new Iraqi struggle as being against the Baath party and what it stands for, and not against specific communities. How to do that is the art of politics today in Iraq.

MEQ: What could the coalition have done differently to avert some of the complications and violence that followed the occupation?

Makiya: The central error was the coalition’s tendency to focus on the 52 “Deck of Cards” suspects, who were at the absolute top of the Iraqi state pyramid. As a result, tens of thousands of trained thugs, intelligence officers, and senior army personnel did not believe that they would be held accountable for what they had done under Saddam’s regime. Those people should have been arrested, questioned and, at the very minimum, closely watched. That didn’t happen though, and these same people are now the leaders of the insurgency.

MEQ: Can the United Nations or Europe assist with reconciliation in coming years?

Makiya: From the Iraqi point-of-view, every involvement of the United Nations has been negative. But it is desirable to have the appearance of U.N. involvement. We need to break the isolation that currently exists, with the United States and a handful of other countries shouldering the burden of the Iraq project. The silence of the Europeans, the negative role of the United Nations—the fact that neither did anything for the people of Iraq during their historic elections—is shameful. The United Nations’ and European hearts are just not in the Iraq project. That is unlikely to change in the near future. They might feel it necessary to make some effort, but it will always be halfhearted. In that sense I would say that the European countries, and particularly France, Germany, and the U.N. have actually given succor and assistance indirectly and unwittingly to the insurgents in Iraq. That is a shameful blot on their record.

MEQ: Have any of the states neighboring Iraq played a more helpful role?

Makiya: None. None at all. There is no doubt about this whatsoever: We never expected to have friends in the region, and we still don’t.

Iraq Memory Foundation MEQ: What are the origins of the Iraq Memory Foundation?

Makiya: In 1991, in the immediate aftermath of the last war, I went to northern Iraq to look into rumors that the Kurds had captured tons of Iraqi documents. With the tacit knowledge of the then-director of Harvard University’s Center for Middle Eastern Studies [William A. Graham], I sought to gain support to transport those documents outside of Iraq so that academics and scholars could work with them. The project began the following year at Harvard.

MEQ: How did you get the documents out of Iraq?

Makiya: Both the U.S. government and Human Rights Watch were involved in shipping the documents—about 2.4 million pages—out of Iraq. Outside that original visit, I was not involved in the mechanics of arranging the transfer. The U.S. government scanned the documents, and then we worked on the scanned, digitized versions. We were initially working with about 2.4 million pages. Over the years, we added another 800,000 or so pages that came out of Kuwait during the Iraqi occupation. We got grants from various foundations and from the U.S. State Department to start working on these documents.

MEQ: Did you acquire any new documents after the fall of the regime of Saddam Hussein in April 2003?

Makiya: After the war, I found in the basement of the headquarters of the Baath Party—the Revolutionary Command Council— a huge cache of documents, another 3 million pages. These were of far greater significance coming as they did from the Baath party building in Baghdad rather than from the outlying provinces. With great difficulty, we got permission to relocate those documents to our offices. We have been organizing them and classifying them into various sets. In the second half of 2004, we got hold of additional documents. We now have a total collection of more than 11 million pages, and we face the gargantuan task of trying to scan them.

MEQ: Can you describe what types of things these documents revealed?

Makiya: There are all sorts of categories of documents. For instance, there are party membership files. These give you sociological information about the backgrounds of party members and the ways in which they rose up in the party. There was a wide variety of material in these box files that could be the correspondence of a branch of the Baath party, or correspondence from the office of the president. Nobody has read through all of this. It takes forever. We have, for instance, eight years worth of rumors on the Baath party in the 1990s. This is a treasure trove for future scholarship on the mechanics and inner workings of dictatorship in the Middle East.

MEQ: Was there anything you found that surprised you?

Makiya: We found registers of Iraqi secondary school students with all kinds of personal information, especially political information: when they joined the party, including their degree of loyalty measured by various criteria; whether they participated in such-and-such an event; the loyalty of the members of their family up to cousins of the third degree. So, you end up with virtually a blacklist of the secondary school population. You can imagine the implications of studying Iraq through the prism of these kinds of documents.

MEQ: How do you intend to make these documents accessible to a broader public?

Makiya: We have to digitize them, and index them, and classify them so that we have ways of searching through them. We have developed systems for doing that, and we intend to begin the production of monographs.

MEQ: How is the Iraq Memory Foundation financed?

Makiya: We have received support from the Iraqi government and from the Coalition Provisional Authority and from grants and contracts from the U.S. government. We have also received a grant to take oral histories of witnesses and survivors of atrocities—we have made about twenty films at the moment. We have about thirty more that we are scheduled to make. Our interviews span the whole spectrum of Iraqi society: men, women, children, Kurds, Arabs, Turkomen, Assyrians, Chaldeans, and people of all social stations and walks of life. We are starting a library of victims’ testimonials. Many of these will air on Iraqi television in coming months.

MEQ: Will the foundation be based in Iraq?

Makiya: It is already based there. That is when it started, in 2003, the year of liberation. There is a special prime ministerial order that grants us use of the “Crossed Swords” site in Baghdad for our museum. It will become a national archive, a museum of remembrance, the offices of the Iraq Memory Foundation, and the location of these documents. We also envisage a place where Iraqi citizens can come and type in the name of a missing relative, their village, the period, with whatever information they have and enable them to personalize a search through our extensive database.

MEQ: This sounds very similar to the interactive features at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington.

Makiya: The big difference is that we are located in the country where the abuses happened.

MEQ: What are your long-term objectives for the foundation?

Makiya: We are working on uncharted territory. There is no similar remembrance in any Arab Muslim country. There are precedents in European countries, parts of Latin America, parts of Southeast Asia, and, of course, South Africa. Those of us who are committed to this project believe that it will, in the long run, transform the Iraqi sense of identity.

MEQ: Do you really think it is possible to create a new Iraqi identity based on this collective history of living under Baathist rule?

Makiya: Yes, I do. I don’t think there can be an Iraqi identity without acknowledging that, dealing with that, and coming to terms with that. It is simply impossible. We will either fragment as a country, or we will come together on the basis of what was done. It may take a lot of time, but the healing is absolutely necessary.

[1] Berkeley: University of California Press, 1989. [2] Berkeley: University of California Press, 1991. [3] New York: W.W. Norton, 1993.

“”No, just for jaywalking.”

How many times do you nutwings need to be told that exaggeration hurts your cause more than it helps?”

About as many times as I fucked your girlfriend last night.

Tried for for wit and only made it half way there.

na-na-na-na-boo-boo

Fuck her all you want - to each according to their need, right comrade?

Thank God I don’t go to school in Wisconsin! What the hell is a degree from the University of Wisconsin worth when the mentalities at work here make the inferiority of a Wisconsin resident self-evident?

“Thank God I don’t go to school in Wisconsin! What the hell is a degree from the University of Wisconsin worth when the mentalities at work here make the inferiority of a Wisconsin resident self-evident?”

And yet for all that, it’s still rated as one of the top universities in the country. If UW is that bad, what does that say for all the schools outside of Wisconsin?

“And yet for all that, it’s still rated as one of the top universities in the country. If UW is that bad, what does that say for all the schools outside of Wisconsin?”

Ah, but only for its graduate and doctoral programs. As an undergraduate school, it totally sucks, and the immature posts here are a clear indication of that.

The Business School undergraduate program is in the top 20 and several specific areas are rated in the top 5.

The professional accounting program graduates (5 year program leading to a Master of Accountancy) are number 2 in the country at passing the CPA exam on their first try. They usually have job offers a semester or two before graduation and get a signing bonus.

The only school with more graduates who make it to CEO of major companies is Harvard. Not all are graduates of the Business School - there are other majors that get jobs at major companies.

Yeah, but UW-Madison also has a higher dropout rate, since most of the undergrads here party their asses off their entire freshman and sophmore years. Pretty small pool of grads in the end, don’t you think?

Higher than what? Plenty DO graduate.

Only the strong survive.

“Higher than what? Plenty DO graduate.

Only the strong survive.”

No, only the most determined to succeed survive. Getting drunk out of your mind every other night to the point that you flunk out of school is not considered determined. And no, plenty do not graduate. Plenty more would if they were mature enough to handle college.

“And no, plenty do not graduate. Plenty more would if they were mature enough to handle college.”

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a wonderful Christmas.

If wishes were horses then beggars would ride!

If wishes were fishes we’d all have a fry!

“If wishes were fishes we’d all have a fry!”

I certainly would not! Do you have any idea how much fat and cholesterol there are in fried fish? You might as well bathe in toxic waste!

Baby, can’t you see I’m calling A guy like you Should wear a warning It’s dangerous I’m falling

There’s no escape I can’t wait I need a hit Baby, give me it You’re dangerous I’m loving it

Too high Can’t come down Losing my head Spinning round and round Do you feel me now

With a taste of your lips I’m on a ride You’re toxic I’m slipping under

With a taste of poison paradise I’m addicted to you Don’t you know that you are toxic And I love what you do Don’t you know that you’re toxic

It’s getting late To give you up I took a sip From my devil cup Slowly, It’s taking over me

Too high Can’t come down Its in the air And it’s all around Can you feel me now

With a taste of your lips I ‘m on a ride You’re toxic I’m slipping under

With a taste of poison paradise I’m addicted to you Don’t you know that you are toxic And I love what you do Don’t you know that you are toxic

Don’t you know that you’re toxic

(2) With a taste of your lips I’m on a ride You’re toxic I’m slipping under With a taste of poison paradise I’m addicted to you Don’t you know that you’re toxic

Intoxicate me now With your lovin’ now I think I’m ready now I think I’m ready now Intoxicate me now With your lovin’ now I’m ready now

I don’t want anybody else When I think about you I touch myself…

“I don’t want anybody else When I think about you I touch myself…”

You’re dirty!

Speaking of morally bankrupt… (Republicans aren’t always wrong)

“Trafficking in human beings is nothing less than a modern form of slavery,” Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said. “The United States has a particular duty to fight this scourge because trafficking in persons is an affront to the principles of human dignity and liberty upon which this nation was founded.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/03/AR2005060301530.html

“You’re dirty!”

But here in Madison, dirty is considered normal. I’m surprised you noticed!