good conclusion but horrible writing

You have other cities on record to look at...do you see increased fighting in NYC or CA?

As for the "over-consumption"--come on. How many times have you actually seen someone at a campus bar cut someone off who they think has had too much to drink?

The smoking ban has fair critiques--free will, enforcement costs, etc. I don't think there's a credible case hear, though, without some actual evidence.

You can do whatever you want in your own home. But I for one plan on going out far more now that I know I won't be in a haze all night. It's bad enough to wake up next to the toilet, you don't need to smell and feel like an ashtray on top of that. Bring on the Ban!!

This article is a complete farse. I've been to a smoke free country (Ireland, who by the way drinks Madison under the table) and there has been no problems implamenting the ban and still keeping the "peace" in the bar. Again, as the second poster said, when is the last time you saw a shit faced drunk get turned down for a drink? I'd tell you guys to get some real facts for your next anti smoking ban article, but by the looks of recent opinions from the BH board on this issue, you are all going to die of lung cancer first. Cheers, and bring on the ban.

Z

Seriously, I wasn't that excited about the band, but if Ireland can do it without fighting, so can we. I mean, come on, IRELAND.

wow, relax guys, smoking bans have gone over well in every city that has adopted them. The police have not had to do much work with taming the crowds since the bouncers usually take care of the problems (since the bar gets ticketed). Calm yourselves, maybe you're having a nic fit?

Are you serious? Do you really believe bouncers are going to have to spend all their time telling unruly bar patrons to put out their cigarettes? I highly doubt that there are going to be that many smokers who are going to put up that much of a stink about not being able to smoke in bars. It's a small inconvenience that they already have to deal with in other aspects of their lives (eg, I doubt most are allowed to smoke at work). Give it up. As you can see from above posts, many people are looking forward to the ban.

I suggest we ban the Irish from our shores.

I just love observing nicotine-addicted people try to justify disallowing the smoking ban. Pathetic.

I love these headlines! Right out of the Joseph Goebbels School of Propaganda, claiming that banning something that kills millions of people every year will cause even worse public health problems than allowing it to continue!

Do you people even know what a fact is anymore?

I'm a smoker, and, of course, would prefer to be allowed to smoke in bars. However, on a city wide level where people will go out and drink anyways, the smoking ban has no effect on business. Madison will work the same way.

Businesses do, however, suffer in rural and smaller areas where a large portion of the business are guys coming home from work and stopping in the bar for a beer or two and a cig or two. These guys stop coming to the bar for happy hour and go home instead. This has been the case in upstate New York. The city bars thrive, the rural ones do not.

As long as this is dealt with on a locality by locality basis, though, I don't mind it. I don't particularly like it, but I don't mind it. Do I think the public health data 10, 20 and 30 years down the road will say this has made any meaningful difference? I sincerely doubt it. But the BH's points hold just as little or less water.

Speaking of the the continuous string of bad headlines, check out the one on the main page about John Gard entering the SENATE race.

I don't know what's wrong with you people in the Midwest. Back home in NY we've banned smoking in bars for years now. Guess what? No ill effects. No front-door fights for smoking space.

What a stupid, stretched argument.

This has got to be one of the most illogical, idiotic editorials that ever appeared in the BH. Your "editorial board" needs an overhaul.

Just a couple of thoughts here. One if everyone is outside smoking guess where the butts go thats right on the side walk. So I guess the next step is to ban smoking outside. Two if more people are going to go the bars now because of no smoking it does increase the chance of problems. Finally if people go outside madison to drink they have to come back in and not all people are smart enough to get a cab. Oh one other thing I have seen bartenders not serve someone because they were drunk.

Doesn't anyone have a problem with our local government's constant need to try and protect us from ourselves? What's next? Will they force restaurants to only serve healthy food? Will they force bars to serve only sugar, calorie free drinks? I understand smoking is bad but isnt the alcohol the bars serve as bad for people as the cigs they want to ban and considering the largest study done on second hand smoke proved that unless you already have preexisting conditions second hand smoke has little if not no effect on people. Do we really want policy based on worst case scenario. What i dont understand about the Progressives in this city is they are always spouting off about individual rights, but the minute an individual opens a business they give up all rights in running that business.

April 21st's editorial on the risks of smoking bans was perceptive, but incomplete. There are many additional risks and harms that arise from these bans that are universally ignored by the Antismoking Lobby.

To name just a few: Fire risks increase as people smoke in obscure areas and hastily dispose of still-lit cigarettes without ashtrays available. Fire risks also increase as people drink and smoke more at home in front of the TV on a soft couch rather than at the pub.

Police efforts to back up enforcement of the ban take police away from their job of protecting people from violent crime. Home parties increase and with them we see increased consumption of cheap alcohol and increased drinking by minors. Drunk driving deaths increase as smokers travel to surrounding areas where smoking is permitted, and deaths due to fights arising from the ban itself are not unknown in other cities although perhaps not yet in Madison. Spiking of unattended drinks, theft of unattended purses, and price increases necessitated by extra door personnel are all additional "costs" of smoking bans.

Allowing bars and restaurants to choose their own smoking policies reflects a respect for both freedom and common sense.

Michael J. McFadden
Author of "Dissecting Antismokers' Brains"
http://cantiloper.tripod.com