Well Emily, not a very solid argument, but you are still sexy.

I agree that the Republicans' plan sucks for more reasons than that it discriminates against racial minorities and the elderly, but I see nothing wrong with requiring more proof than we currently do. Under our current system, it's very easy to commit voter fraud.

The argument about students not having access to an ID--especially on this campus-- holds little to no water. What is the procedure again for obtaining a UW student ID (which every UW student has)? Oh, yeah... showing a state ID, drivers license, passport... I suppose they self destruct though after the UW ID is obtained.

Yeah...and you can't goto the DMV and get a free ID either...not a drivers license, but just an ID showing you live here. That's too much to ask of someone though right? This is an argument made huge by the liberals trying to cry foul about everything in order to get the vote of the poor person by coercing them into believing they will be forgotten. Everyone has the same ability to obtain an ID, so stop complaining.

A republican has the audacity to say a liberal is coercing poor people to vote for them?! Check out the book "What's the Matter with Kansas" to see how republicans have put their true agendas behind closed doors and pushed their ideological issues in the mainstream to steal the vote from lower socioeconomic levels.

No wonder all the liberals hate it. Now that no ID is required they can vote in a swing state like Wisconsin instead of the states which are depicted on their picture IDs, which usually are not swing states: New Jersey, New York, and Illinois.

Actually they can and probably do vote in both.

Can we all just ruminate for a second on how big of an idiot Tom Reynolds is? Thank you.

That being said, voter ID just makes sense.

Requiring Id's is fine as long as the government makes it mandatory that you register to vote when you get one. I can't really see a good argument against it.Though I am happy to listen to one. I agree that the Republicans must think that it benefits them or they wouldn't be for it. Alternately, the Dems must think that it will hurt them or they won't be against it.

Republicans: Can you give me one good argument for why we should have voting machines that don't leave paper trails? As a liberal, I would be willing to concede to voter Id's if Republicans conceded to a paper trail. It does seem a little odd that every single error in vote tabulation went to Bush in the last election. That the Diebold guy said to Bush "I will deliver Ohio to you" in a memo. That there are still thousands of votes that were never counted.

I am not arguing that Kerry won. I don't even care that much as I think that Americans deserve the whatever they get economically for this election even being remotely close. However, I can't see any reasonable argument against paper trails unless Republicans have something to hide, just like I can't see one gainst voter ID's unless Dems have something to hide.

Last time I was in Wisconsin the liquor store wanted ID from my 78 year old father - seems strange that ID is required to get a six-pack but not for voting?

Rethugs: Address this and then maybe we can talk about ID's to ensure that a paltry few voters didn't drive to a different state on election day.
------------------------

How John Kerry Unwon the Presidency

How Bush-Cheney stole the 2000 election was a matter of obvious historical fact, confirmed by post-facto mainstream media reports of a Gore win, and detailed by numerous investigators such as Greg Palast in his book The Best Democracy Money Can Buy. Voters complained about old machines and paper ballots.

Then came the "black box voting" machines. (For detailed analysis of black box voting, read the work of Bev Harris .)

In the 2002 mid-term elections , the Republicans "shocked" Democrats by solidifying their power in Congress, using the same fraudulent methods, along with new and improved black box technology.

"The technology had a trial run in the 2002 mid-term elections. In Georgia, serviced by new Diebold systems, a popular Democratic governor and senator were both unseated in what the media called 'amazing' upsets, with results showing vote swings of up to 16 percent from the last pre-ballot polls. In computerized Minnesota, former Vice President Walter Mondale--a replacement for popular incumbent Paul Wellstone, who died in a plane crash days before the vote--was also defeated in a large last-second vote swing. Convenient 'glitches' in Florida saw an untold number of votes intended for the Democratic candidate registering instead for Governor Jeb "L'il Brother" Bush. A Florida Democrat who lost a similarly 'glitched' local election went to court to have the computers examined--but the case was thrown out by a judge who ruled that the innards of America's voting machines are the 'trade secrets' of the private companies who make them."

In 2003, black box voting also helped oust Governor Gray Davis and installed Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger in the Democratic stronghold of California.

The probability of a fix was obvious throughout the 2004 presidential campaign. Corporate media polls continued to predominantly favor Bush, never dipping his rating below 48 percent, despite his trouncing in three straight debates with Kerry, and despite mushrooming war scandals. This was in stark contrast to independent surveys that showed Kerry with commanding leads. Kerry momentum, and massive Kerry/anti-Bush voter turnout, was evident on election day, and confirmed by exit polls with dominant Kerry numbers.

Then what?

Greg Palast reveals in exhaustive detail that John Kerry won the 2004 election and had it stolen through such methods as "spoilage", intimidation, polling place chicanery, ethnic cleansing of polls. (See Kerry Won .)

Once again, criminals do not "permit" elections. They make them. This time, the Bush forces had years of unencumbered time to orchestrate it, from Ohio (where its notorious secretary of state is the head of the Bush re-election campaign), and, of course, Jeb Bush's Florida.

The Triumph of the Bush Machines

But there is one overriding fact that has been left out most of the ridiculous post-election punditry that renders all other analyses completely irrelevant. It is also the reason why the smiles on the faces of Bush crime family members are so bright, as they watched the returns on election night.

Air America Radio's Mike Malloy gave the most succinct and passionate explanation in his Wednesday, November 3, 2004 , program [my links included-LC]:

"The American vote count is controlled by three major corporate players, Diebold , ESS , Sequoia , and a fourth, SAIC , Science Applications International. All four are hard-wired into the Bush power structure, the Bush crime family.

They have been given millions of dollars by the Bush regime to complete a sweeping computerization of voting machines that were just used in the 2004 election. The technology involved had a trial run during the 2002 mid-term elections. Georgia had Diebold machines in every precinct. As a result, a popular Democratic governor and senator were both unseated in what the media called an "amazing" 16 percent swing.

Diebold's Walden O'Dell, a top Bush fundraiser, publicly committed himself to delivering his home state Ohio's votes to Bush. At Diebold, the election division is run by Bob Urosevich. Bob's brother, Todd, is a top executive at "rival" ES&S. The brothers were originally staked by Howard Ahmanson, a member of the Council For National Policy , a right-wing steering group stacked with Bush true believers. Ahmanson is also one of the bagmen behind the extremist Christian Reconstruction Movement , which advocates the theocratic takeover of American democracy.

The four companies are interconnected; they are not four "competitors". Ahmanson has large stakes in ES&S, whose former CEO was Republican Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska. When Hagel ran for office, his own company counted the votes, and his victory was considered "an amazing upset". Hagel still has a million dollar stake in ES&S.

Sequoia is the corporate parent of a private equity firm, Madison Dearborn , which is partner in the Carlyle Group . (Also see here .)

Meanwhile, SAIC is referred to a "shadowy defense contractor". They have gotten into the vote count game both directly and through spinoffs by its top brass, including Admiral Bill Owens, former military aide to Dick Cheney, and Carlyle Group honcho Frank Carlucci and ex-CIA chief Robert Gates. SAIC's history of fraud charges and security "lapses" haven't prevented it from becoming one of the largest Pentagon and CIA contractors, and will doubtless encounter few obstacles in its entrance into the vote counting business.

The mad rush to install these unverifiable computers is driven by the Help America Vote Act, signed by Bush! The chief lobbying group pushing for the act (while we dumb asses sat out here and thought, 'That sounds like a good idea!') was a consortium of arms dealers including Northrup Grumman and Lockheed Martin .

When you hear people saying, 'take a deep breath, we will pull through this', 'we need to work harder', 'we need to organize'--no. We will not. It's over.

Unless electronic vote tabulation is history, and these companies are driven out of business, it's their country. Not ours.

Nobody knows, and no one will ever know, what the actual vote count was.

There are no checks and balances left. The US Senate now has 55 of these Republicans. When they hit 60, which is what will happen in 2006 mid-term elections--trust me--that means that no matter what Bush and the crime family want to do, they can do it. The House (of Representatives) is gone for the next two to five generations. It's gone.

The last thing rational people in this country need right now is this whistling-past-the-graveyard horse hockey. Nothing is going to happen; it's going to get worse. There will never again be a legitimate election in this county.

Until we get rid of the machines.

The people who put the software together--do you think that they are in this business to promote democracy? To promote representative government? Then you are a fool, and you don't deserve anything other than the lash.

Kerry did not lose the election. The vote was stolen. Get that through your head."

The Bush syndicate owns and runs the machines that make the votes. They control all branches of the federal government.

There is nothing more painful than witnessing the Kerry voters, liberals and progressives as they agonize over "what went wrong," second guessing their Herculean efforts, grasping for solutions in outdated ideas, and vowing how "next time, we'll work harder, and we'll really get out the vote!", and that "we'll nominate even better candidates!"

Still others are asking reasonable questions. Why aren't Walden O'Dell, Jeb Bush, and J. Kenneth Blackwell under arrest, or in jail? Exactly how did Associated Press pull it off on election night? Will any of the Bush administration criminals ever be punished for their war crimes? Then one must ask, who is going to prosecute? Who is going to hear the cases? The Bush Justice Department? The Bush FBI? The Supreme Court?

When you play fair in a rigged game, it doesn't matter how hard you work, or even what you do. Insanity is repeating the same mistake, expecting a different result.

Even if IDs are required people who are from Illinois, Jersey and New York will still be able to vote in Wisconsin if they have been living there for a month and have a peice of official mail. Sorry repubs, that's not going to stop the spread of sane voting to the north woods.

Oh God, Palast has been refuted so many times it ain't even funny.

Actually WIN instead of complaining about how you lost.

Hint: You need IDEAS, not just COMPLAINTS to do it.

Pathetic.

Actually all you need to win is some really good scare tactics. Oh shit I need to run, the threat level was raised to orange!

When writing a column about the voter id bill it might be worthwhile to talk about the documented rampant voter fraud that took place during the Novemeber elections in Wisconsin and talk about you're proposal for how to stop it. If 10,000 people vote illegaly and cancel out the votes of 10,000 legal voters isn't that the same as 10,000 people not being able to vote because of the ID bill? And I don't believe for a second that the ID bill would prevent that order of magnitude of people from voting. How many people do you know who are over 18 and don't have ID?

How can you plug a website that says "Republicans do not want you to vote." and expect people to take your coumn seriosly? If they do after reading they aren't the people you want reading it.

Voting is a privelage not a right. Where in the constitution does it say people have a right to vote or that we have a genuine democracy? We live in a republic where electors choose the president and those electors, like other representitives are appointed in a way each legislature sees fit. So if the Wisconsin legislature ammends its voting procedure it isn't taking away anyone's right. Its jsut making sure that the privelage is only used by people who are legaly exercising it.

I honestly can't fathom a single argument against requiring IDs to vote. Isn't this the perfect liberal nanny state cause? If you are of voting age and don't have ID, your chances of success in life are not good. Why not protect the voting process and empower citizens in the same effot.

Oh, and please shut up about the Diebold nonsense, people.

WHINE, WHINE, WHINE, all I fucking hear from Republicans. "Wah! out of staters are coming to fuck up our totals! Wah, poor people will actually vote! Wah! Black people don't support Republicans, therefore let's disenfranchise them! Wah!"

Wipe the shit out of your shorts you losers and get with the picture. Voting is a fundamental right, and any attempt to slow it up is done so to suppress the minority vote. If you think otherwise, you're either ignorant, a racist, or both.

Probably both.

Some idiot said:

""WHINE, WHINE, WHINE, all I fucking hear from Republicans. "Wah! out of staters are coming to fuck up our totals! Wah, poor people will actually vote! Wah! Black people don't support Republicans, therefore let's disenfranchise them! Wah!""

Actually your side would be the one doing the whining, what with the lengthy posts on how each of the last three electoins were stolen.

Read the stories on the fraud in Milwaukee. Don't you think that problem should be fixed? Most people probably do (since your side benefited from it, you probably don't). This is one way to attempt to fix it. If you think it won't fix it, say why. But don't whine and bitch that it's all a ploy to disenfranchise minorities.

"Wipe the shit out of your shorts you losers and get with the picture."

LOL. We're losers?

How many elections your side won lately, ace?

"Voting is a fundamental right, and any attempt to slow it up is done so to suppress the minority vote. If you think otherwise, you're either ignorant, a racist, or both."

You're an idiot. A complete and total waste of human skin and bone tissue and, if you are a student, a complete waste of the state's educational resources.

Voting IS a fundamental right. Don't you think we should protect that right by preventing fraud to the best of our abilities? What good does it do me to vote if I know there's a 50-50 chance it'll be cancelled out by someone claiming to be someone they are not?

Learn some new arguments and some new slogans, yours are tired and old, moron.

I would gladly fix the Milwaukee election so the repubs one if you guys give back the national elections stolen by fraud.

All of you who think that this bill would hurt the elderly, the young, and minorities, sure have a low opinion of the elderly, the young, and minorities.

Racists, all of you.

there are so many flaws in this article i dont there where to start:
-There are 123,000 ID-less residents of the state of Wisconsin, not the millions she speaks of. Just a plain lie
-Other states are working, BIPARTISANLY, to incorporate voter reform. Look at New Mexico
-I could go on and on...but this article is nothing more than the Democratic Talking Points...Making no valid analitical arguments

Some moron said:

"I would gladly fix the Milwaukee election so the repubs one if you guys..."

Fix the election so the Repubs ONE what?

Out of curiosity, if you're so damn stupid you confuse "ONE" with "WON", don't you think you might be out of your league getting into a conversation about national politics?

Maybe you should just shut up and stick to getting those burgers flipped at the right time.

Apparently the previous poster has never made a typo. Oh wait. There are 5 that I can count in that post above alone. I'm sure those are the only 5 that he has ever made though.

Attacking grammar and spelling is the last refuge of those who can't refute arguments with facts ad logic.

Oh, just shut up.

I leave typos alone.

Confusing the word "one" with "won" is not a typo, it's a sign of stewpiditee.

I don't think conservatives are in any position to criticize grammar mistakes seeing as the Resident Chimp is about as much of a babbling moron as ever existed.

Or are you willing to concede that he is stupid as well?

Maybe you disagree with the way he does things, but his college degrees and his previous jobs seem to show that you are way off.

Virginia has required photo id for over 2 years now. If you don't have a photo id, then you are given a provisional ballot. There have been no problems with this.

The statement of the author, "Considering all of the other 49 states have either refused to pass legislation like this or not considered it at all, it is imperative that Wisconsin do so also." is just plain wrong. So what else is not true in this article? Too bad she is a journalism major. I hope UW journalism majors learn some fact checking skills.

Most students now have a photo id from their school.

I want my vote to count and not be cancelled out by illegal or duplicate voters!

This is an entirely clear cut issue. Like just about every country in the world, including all of our so-called enlightened, Eurpean friends, the US should require every citizen over 18 to carry a valid identification.

"Voting is a fundamental right, and any attempt to slow it up is done so to suppress the minority vote. If you think otherwise, you're either ignorant, a racist, or both."

Slow votes only affect minorities? They must have fast votes or what?

***

WORLD ENDS - Minorities affected the most!

I am still waiting for a Republican to tell me why we shouldn't have paper trails for voting machines...

Still waiting...

Republican here. I think we should have paper trails. So I can't help you out. I'm for transperancy in voting above all else, which is why I'm also for photo IDs.

Fianlly an answer. So answer me this then: Why has your party blocked paper trails?

2) Which is larger: The entire state of GA where there were no paper trails, or the number of people who voted twice in the last election?

I hate how this has become a partisan issue. I agree with you above poster. Voting should be transparent. Thus I am for ID's and for paper trails. I am not asking you to believe that the election was rigged, but can you at least undertand how from our side we might be a bit suspicious given the massive campaign contributions made by the companies that make these machines to Bush's re-election campaign? Don't we all-no matter our party-deserve to know that our vote was counted and that our election process isn't rigged?

I'd really like to see a non-partisan campaign pushing for these types of voter reforms.

Didn't the machines get pushed because the dummycrats in Florida couldn't follow simple instuctions? Of course there was some confusion regarding the dummycrat designed "butterfly ballots" too.

I'm for IDs and paper ballots, counted twice by both sides.

So you are for denying people the right to vote because they are not as smart as you? I don't know where it says that in the Constituion.

If they are too stupid to have an ID they don't deserve to vote.

Well there you have it. Another example of why the country hates republicans

Wait a minute, the dummycrats say all republicans are stupid. So wouldn't it be smart of the dummycrats to keep stupid people from voting?