So "Not every military recruiter in the world is a con artist." And "not every soldier commits war crimes, and not every recruiter lies to people." Not every, huh? So you concede that some are cons, some commit war crimes, and some lie. And your content with that? And you never explained why "Don't Ask Don't Tell" is an acceptable policy on campus. Throughout your entire piece all you did was harp one sentimental theme ("Most soldiers are not evil monsters") to excuse the occasional "problems" of the military. Don't be naive. Recruiters are on this campus, other college campuses, and at thousands of high schools to catch the poorest kids as their financial needs suffer. They recruit working class people to kill and potentially get killed.

Opposing military recruitment isn't to vilify the recruiters or the soldiers. That's why current soldiers and veterans will be joining the walk out today to end recruitment on campus. To have the troops interests in mind means not supporting their dangerous and murderous mission - but bringing them home and provide them with the health care they deserve, particularly those with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. PTSD has developed in thousands of veterans of this war, over 11,000 official injuries, 1,500 dead and over 5,000 troops have already deserted the US military. These ranks need to be restocked to wage this war and military recruiters are the ones expected to fill them. It's nothing personal.

-Chris Dols

Amen to what Chris said. Fuck, what a pathetic article - you're main defense is that "well shit, some of it is evil, but most of it isn't." That kind of shit wouldn't fly for defending anything, military or civilian, progressive or conservative. I can't believe you're a linguistics major.

Well, maybe I can. Shit, if Verstandig is a rhetoric major... bwaaaaahahahaha...

I don't think kicking recruiters out of schools is a good idea. Man, the way I see it, if we kick recruiters out of schools, they may resort to blocking the entrances to abortion clinics. As if Bush were Pro-Life, he just needs soldiers due to bad management, bad decisions, and bad morals. This article stresses the need to listen to recruiters, hmmm, I don't hear many advertising that you will have to buy your own body armor, which is what the facts are.

On second thought, I say kick the recruiters out. Support for the troops starts at the top. As potential soldiers, we have a right to acknowledge and admonish terrible tactics and planning, which looking past the Mission Accomplished banner, the staged Saddam statue fiasco, lapel flag pins and car magnets, and other PR tactics which really are meant to disguise missing weapons, poor intelligence, lack of resources, elongated tours of duty, a back door draft, and total lack of any credible information about who we are fighting, it will be clear that it is time to speak out. If we ever want this war to end, perhaps recruiters are the ones who should do the listening.

The recruitment centers have just as much a right to be on campus as any other program. In case you forgot, this is a free country and they have the freedom to be there. Second, this is a voulunteer army, not a conscription. When one goes to an ROTC location and obtains the information, they are going on their OWN free will. Kicking the recruiters of campus will not end the war, i dont know how you can believe that. By attacking the military recruiters you are attacking innocent victims, simply people doing their job. The last thing our country needs is for our innocent soldiers to be attacked in our country for the fact that they are willing to join the armed forces. Its truly a sad day in America that people are actively TRYING to make people who choose to be in the armed forces ashamed of themselves. That is downright disturbing and i cant fathom the rationale you have.

So Jeff, are you planning on joining the army anytime soon? If so more power to you man. If not why don't you shut the hell up.

The military recruiters have to stay, unless you want federal aid cut off. It's called the Solomon Amendment. Read up on it. Educate yourselves.

http://www.yalerotc.org/Solomon.html

EXCELLENT ARTICLE... well thought-out and versed arguments... as opposed to the expletives and name calling in some of the responses.

There are many rapists on the campus of UW. Does that mean we should protest UW recruiters because it is a terrible organization for allowing such behavior? Of course not. Even in the military people can act of free will just like they can in civilian life. Don't attack a military recruiter for doing his/her job. Like it or not, this country needs a strong military in times of war and peace. And, for your information, I am not from a poor family and yet I still joined the Air Force. Not because I needed money or wanted to kill people, but because I felt it was my duty as an American to give back to this country all it has given me and my family. Go have your protest walk, but always remember it is the soldier that has given you the RIGHT to have it.

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill

I don't see a problem with recruiters. If anyone on this campus is stupid enough to enlist and let Bushco send them into their war for profit, then they deserve whatever they get- short of being maimed or killed that is.

To reply to Mr Dol's comments about being comfortable with some members of the military being (con artists, liars, and criminals) and the author being comfortable with it. I would like to point out to Mr. Dol that a lot of students on UW are rapists, murderers, drug addicts, thieves, alcoholics, domestic abusers, etc and he seems to have NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. Yes Mr Dol the military (unlike the morons attending UW) are well aware that their are some of the unsavory sort in our ranks. I believe that is why we have Military Police, CID (Criminal Investigation Division) and even NCIS for the Navy. I believe it is also why we have a JAG Corps, military lawyers and a huge prison at Ft. Leavenworth Kansas. The recruiters on Campus are not the problem any more so than the student president at UW is responsible for the "crimes" committed by the students on campus. Seems your problem is with the government policy not the recruiters themselves who do not make policy. Funny I remember we have a way to change government in this country but that requires you to get off your apathetic asses and VOTE instead of screaming about the "injustices" in this world. I think voting has changed the US policy far more than any protest ever has or will.

In addition most recruiters do not lie but they are not the "know it all" subject matter experts either. My recruiter was an Infrantyman for 15 years, I wanted something in the medical field. Granted he knew the "Basic" job if you will of the Army. But when it came to the medical side of the house he was clueless. Not unlike a person who has been on say the Madison police force being tasked to recruit for say Houston. They may know the Basics of being a policeman but not the intricacies of working in Houston. Same with recruiters, they do not and cannot be expected to know about every job in the military considering they are about as numerous and varied as the jobs in the civilian sector (we have doctors, nurses, radiologists, physical therapists, physician's assistance, surgeons, family practice, social workers, psychologists and other and that JUST THE MEDICAL SIDE OF THE ARMY). Now how can one person know all the details of every job the Army entails again. I guess you expect your COLLEGE Recruiter to tell you the intricate details of UW's medical program when they visit the high schools huh?

Finally recruiters on a college campus are no more "stretching the truth" than a college recruiter is on a high school campus. They are unscrupulous and look for the financially weak? Then what are those college sports team recruiters doing at the local high school gymnasium?? I think we have heard the stories of "bonuses" offered by these recruiters as well in the form of underhanded payments for touchdowns and games won, drugs, parties, whores (college sorority girls pretty much the same thing) all offered to these guys if they will just come and "play ball" for the college? Now how much "medical" benefits do the colleges give these kids when they are injured playing for the college?? At least the military does offer almost lifetime care (albeit lacking) for injuries in battle. How much does UW offer when that football player is injured on the field?? Last I checked it was ZERO!!!!

So before you blame military recruiters for unscrupulous practices to get folks to join. Maybe you should look at the UW "recruiters" who are doing the EXACT SAME THING to get students and the all important "sports whores" to play for their teams.

Sincerely

SSG Ronald Pritchett
US Army
ronald.pritchett@verizon.net

The liberals/progressives have it all wrong. Recruiting NEEDS to happen at our universities. So does officer training. It helps the military, since it forces it to be constantly wedded to the people who make up this democracy. Kicking military recruiters off campus to "keep the recruiters from enlisting the empoverished/owrking class" will only exacerbate the problem.

I am a Marine Officer and UW Alum...most of my enlisted Marines are combat veterans...and those who aren't soon will be. Most of them are working/middle class. I have one who's father is a millionaire. I have a few that come from broken homes. All have completed high school, and some have a BS degree, and most have some college credits. Largely these Marines represent America. Almost every demographic is represented...openly gay Marines, drug abusers, and those with felonies are relatively rare compared to the rest of America. But for the most part they are very representative.

That representative connection in the military is vital...it keeps the military honest, just as the press does.

The effect of recruiting and training officers at liberal(I'm talking mindset here, not politics) doesn't militarize those institutions. Recruiting and officer training at liberal institutions liberalizes the military...which is exactly what it needs.

Recruiting and officer training must continue unabated. Divorcing students and the military will be to the detriment of both communities.

-One random American Citizen, Marine Officer, conservative, and UW Alum

Lessons in Logic

Note to Dols. You can't argue that his is inappropriate:

"Not every, huh? So you concede that some are cons, some commit war crimes, and some lie. And your content with that?"

While at the same time arguing that this:

"That's why current soldiers and veterans will be joining the walk out today to end recruitment on campus."

helps your cause.

In other words, arguing that "some people are evil ergo the institution itself is evil" is quite stupid when the argument "some troops support us ergo they all do" is right next to it.

I couldn't agree more with the Marine Officer poster above. I am an Air Force Officer who was trained in ROTC at UW. Based on my experience, I am much more liberal and open-minded to other's opinions and points of view than the majority of my peers. The biggest reason for this is my education in Madison. Taking recruiters and ROTC away from Madison and other universities will have the exact opposite affect you are trying to achieve. If Air Force ROTC was not on the UW campus, I wouldn't be in the Air Force now.

If you're against current military policies, protest to your elected officials, not a recruiter. But please don't take the opportinity to serve our country away from me and those like me who can and will move the military forward in a positive manner.

Go Badgers!!

I applaud you SSG Ronald Pritchett, thank you for putting what needed to be said out there. And thank you for being in the US Armed Forces, although a small minority out there that actually hate the troops, there is a greater/bigger majority out there that supports you and is proud of the service you are doing.

Liberals want recruiters off campus because they don't want kids to hear about joining the military.

Anyone who thinks far-left liberals are interested in allowing people to consider opposing arguments is naive at best and stupid at worst.

Just ask Ward Connerly.

"So before you blame military recruiters for unscrupulous practices to get folks to join. Maybe you should look at the UW "recruiters" who are doing the EXACT SAME THING to get students and the all important "sports whores" to play for their teams."

Except that when you lie, you are putting people in the position of getting killed.

"whores (college sorority girls pretty much the same thing)"

I am looking into getting this published in the local papers. You really make the military look like a bunch of enlightened thinkers Pritchett...We can see your true colors in this comment.

"So you concede that some are cons, some commit war crimes, and some lie. And your content with that?"

And some socialists are cons, some commit war crimes, and some lie. Are you content with that, Chris Dols? Should we ban all socialists from campus for the crimes of a few?

Pritchett shows more of his true colors:

HERE IS AN IDEA

01.06.2004 12:43

Then how about a simple solution to the "shoot to kill" orders. All you left leaning liberal idiots in the interest of national security stay at home that day. Surely you can find something else to do to occupy your time for those few days of the summit try smoking your bongs, sex with your gay lover, or maybe actually WORKING AT YOUR JOBS. If there are no protests, then no threat then no reason to shoot to kill sounds simple enough.

HHHMM police say if I cause a ruckus they will shoot me, what to do, what to do, protest or keep my dumbass at home?

Ronald Pritchett
e-mail:: ronald.pritchett@verizon.net

Pritchett, I don't understand 01.06.2004 12:43 Please explain

Joining the military is for naive idiots who actually think that the corporate elite who runs Washington-in both parties-has their country and family's best interests in mind.

Sad and dumb

That would be because someone else took another quote of mine from another article and posted it. It was about police having shoot to kill orders at a protest and the liberals griping because someone was injured. Seems to me if you know you will be shot for what your doing the simple solution would be not to do it? Kinda like "if I touch this fire I will get burned what to do, what to do, let's touch it anyway".

As for the "except when you lie, your putting people in the position of getting killed". Oh and college sports recruiters aren't. While I know that not many have died playing sports some have, so the possibility is there. Think those college recruiters are saying "hey play football for us and get hit hard enough and your spine snaps you could be killed". Nope I would think they would be pushing the babes, booze, and celebrity worship (whoreship) that comes with being a "sportstar". Pity they don't tell them what happens when they say blow their knee, rip their rotator cuffs, break their legs etc. Do they? As for the military recruiters, I think most kinda think it is common sense (which admitedly is severly lacking on college campuses with group think)to know if you join the military you might get killed. However NOT knowing this shows what a piss poor history program most campuses have. One would think that a few million lives lost in WWII would kinda drive home the fact "hey join the military get sent to war death is a possibility". So no most recruiters do not approach that subject because recruiting on the college campuses many kinda hope the "prospective college recruit" has enough scruples to figure that out on their own. Sorry you are such a dumbass you haven't yet and must be told "join the military under threat of death".

As for making the military look like a bunch of "enlightened thinkers" touche' I believe the same holds true for yourself and your college minions. I am happy you have all those professors to do your thinking for you, otherwise other than possibly crapping on yourself you wouldn't have an original thought in your head would you?? Funny for all of you who want to be individuals look around sure are a lot whom tend to have the same exact ideas, mores, values etc that you do? Maybe that is why young folks find it necessary to hang on campuses after high school, there is strength in numbers and most of you idiots need all the strength you can get realizing that nobody outside those campus walls thinks like you or for that matter really cares what you think.

Pritchett you called sorority girls "whores" -this is exactly the kind of macho, bullying, attitude that makes people hate soldiers in the first place. You, my friend, would do a service to us all by keeping your mouth shut.

Funny I was unaware that the purpose of my speil was to make the military look like a bunch of "enlightened thinkers". I would think making folks look like "enlightened thinkers" would be the sole reason for professors and colleges, not NCO'es serving in the military. However it is somehow disheartening to see that at least in your case, the professors and UW are failing miserably at making YOU look enlightened in any form. So let's take a quick look see here:

military's job currently: freeing folks from dictatorial regimes example Iraq and Afghanistan, well on the way good to go.

colleges job: making folks look like enlightened thinkers: example: yourself,
score: failing miserably if one is to use yourself as an example.

Thus begins the personal attacks because someone can't take on the government as they should but had rather pick on the little guy me. No wonder you guys protest recruiters instead of who you should be protesting what too big a fight for ya. What next when a recruiter kicks your ass pick on female ROTC cadets???

SSG Ronald Pritchett
ronald.pritchett@verizon.net.

It's so sad that you can't even see what a brainwashed moron you are. I bet you make good cannnon fodder though. Get over there and get your legs blown off and see if I care. It's your decision after all.

"What next when a recruiter kicks your ass pick on female ROTC cadets???"

Dude, you are such a sexist. lmfao. First sorority girls are whores, now females are weaker so we shouldn't pick on them. Keep digiing Pritchett you sad sad fuck.

No what I meant was an ROTC Female would probably kick your ass. Besides I haven't been "cannon fodder" since I have been in. You see that would mean you liberals would have gotten your way and prevented us from shooting at the enemy. I usually when shot at return fire. Cannon fodder is basically a term meaning you are at the mercy of the military. Let's see free college tuition, $4,500 a month paycheck, tax free shopping, worldwide travel, retire at 39 with lifetime medical and dental coverage, and retirement pay, rubbing noses with presidents, Kings, ambassadors, working with the latest technology, saving lives, and the military begging me to stay in cause they are hurting for troops (because of you idiots wanting to kick recruiters off campus) tell me again how I am "cannon fodder". Seems to me the only idiot are the likes of you who are so little informed about the likes of me, we frighten you to no end. So keep believing the "lies" your 60ish professors through your way. Funny thing is you accuse the military recruiters of "not telling the truth". The "truth" you and your minions subscribe to became outdated shortly after the "age of aquarius" and bell bottom pants.

So much anger. Why not go fuck a sheep or torture an Iraqi? Maybe you will feel better. Those bag-hoods are so sexy!

"No what I meant was an ROTC Female would probably kick your ass"

Typical Republican line. Change your argment when you realize you are wrong. Anyone can see that that is not what you said above which leads me to conclude:

1) You are a sniveling liar.

2) You have a poor grasp of english and logic.

Since you are a Bush backer I will go with:

3)both of the above

So now you are saying that people should enlist to milk the governement for free cash and benefits??? What a frigging hypocrite.

Keep digging. How does it feel to be wrong and know it? Just admit it Pritchett, you'll feel better. ;)

"So now you are saying that people should enlist to milk the governement for free cash and benefits?"

Yeah, bring back the draft - that's the Democrat line. Don't pay market rates for the troops you need, force people to become slaves as it were. Of course these are the same people that beleive that every dollar you earn really belongs to the state and it's a big favor if they let you keep any at all.

"free cash and benefits?" - there's nothing free about - they put their lives on the line so pukes like you can sit around and bitch about how unfair the world is.

Ha-ha, your getting even better, I don't have sexual relations with sheep, wouldn't want to the end product to be something much like yourself. It is apparent though talking with you that your father must have enjoyed it very much, what else would account for your existence? Well let's see we wouldn't want the military milking the government for free benefits to get in the way of the PELL GRANTS, scholarships and other bennies that those such as yourself might enjoy while attending school would we? Typical Republican? Try typical liberal can't argue the topic cause you know your wrong so we return to the usual liberal stance of attacking the person. Your hilarious dude, just makes me truly wonder if the likes of yourself are even worth protecting. Thanks for showing the world and those at UW the end result of 4 years of "higher" education that your school produces. If this is what UW has to offer maybe our Recruiters are better off not visiting your campus. Truly one must wonder what they are doing there in the first place if the likes of yourself are the best "educated adults" produced by UW. Those "undereducated, financially inadequate, minority" kids (yet I am the one that reeks of prejudice and racism) have more intelligence and honor in their trigger fingers than the likes of yourself will ever know.

SSG Ronald Pritchett
US Army
ronald.pritchett@verizon.net

Oh way to "hide" behind the anonymous title as well. Guess we are too "important" to openly admit our name. Still ashamned of your daddy are we, or just not have one??

Now I believe we were discussing recruiting on Campus, not listening to the rantings of two equally opposed minions??

Why should we have any sort of recruiting on Campus? Be it the military, corporations, government employers, fortune 500 companies etc. Let those who graduate look for jobs, not the job come looking for them. I say ban ALL TYPES of recruiting on campus in addition to any political party affiliation or groups, political action groups, student organizations, collegiate sports etc. In short you go to college to learn, not seek a job while there or give your opinion on anything. I am all for banning recruiting along with any and all government funding for the school and any student that might attend that school. If the school wants to ban the government (done by a majority vote of the students at that school) then so be it. The government ought to be given the same option of "banning" the school then from any and all financial assistance.

Liberals are so amusing. Listening to a liberal argue is a lot like listening to a story teller. They make up facts, bitch about everything, and simply repeat their argument when refuted. I really wish you would all just jump off the bridge across university into oncoming traffic. You preach acceptance, but silence the conservative minority (on campus we're a minority, but everywhere else we're a majority). You preach equality for all, but then keep minorities down with welfare. You "threaten" to leave the country if Bush is re-elected(I say threaten, because it is an empty threat...one i wish you would go through with), and then don't. You are a joke. You are a bunch of ill-informed hippies. Go to hell.