SHAS SO 2TALY NOT DA SECOND VIEC-CHARE OF DA COL3GE RAPUBLICANS!11! Y IF SHA WERA DA BADGAR H3RALD UNDOUBTADLY WUD HAEV HAD DA INT3GRITY 2 LIST HAR AS SUCH DUH!11!11!! LOL

Do I possess the ability to embrace freedom? Unnhh...I'm trying...shit...slippery little fucker...GOT IT!

Wow! How did a little liberal like myself catch freedom? I thought it scampered away at the first sight of a U.S. soldier hating, President mocking, civil liberties lovin' liberal?

Come on! Could this article be a) any more vapid, or b) pointless?

Jessi, what is the issue here? Unite behind the president or you're a traitor? Opposition to the president is like hating on U.S. troops? How many times do people not in lockstep uniform thought with Republicans have to explain to you people that a) dissent is patriotic (yes, that's a bumper sticker, but I'm keeping it simple here) and b) your president is the worst ever?

I mean, just because we keep making sequels to crappy movies doesn't mean they're good? The American people are sometimes scared, misguided and easily fooled. That's how you get 51% of them to agree with you.

Jessi, this article doesn't even say anything except shut it and fall in line.

And that's not very patriotic at all.

Rob Deters

For the 6,348th time:

SUPPORTING THE TROOPS != OBSEQUIOUS OBEDIENCE TO W.

Why is it that Republicans like Jessi rhapsodize about the freedom of Iraqis in one breath and then damn the freedom of Americans in the next?

If you think that Americans should not criticize the President, then you clearly hate freedom -- and wouldn't that mean that the terrorists have won?

"The American people are sometimes scared, misguided and easily fooled. That's how you get 51% of them to agree with you."
No, that's how you get 49% to not agree with you. Just because your a liberal DOES NOT mean you are any smarter or less easily fooled than anyone else. Trust me. Once you get out in the real world your views will change.

"Once you get out in the real world your views will change."

Listen pal. Don't take it out on us because you hate your job. Liberals were telling you you would hate it all through your college years. But you ignored us and decided to pursue the money. Maybe you wouldn't be so bitter if you hadn't sold yourself on your own rhetoric, but you have and now you have no where to go. What happened to the old conservative "bootstraps" argument? If the real world is so bad why don't you just stop whining, work harder and get yourself out of it? Huh? I'm waiting for the answer...

If Bush supporters are not easily fooled. I wold like you to answer the following:

Why wasn't the War in Iraq illegal?

Please explain how thereis a Social Security crisis and how investing in the Stock market will benefit the people who need SS the most.

Please explain why Bush is running massive deficits while cutting taxes. What is his plan to balance the budget?

Please explain why our troops are improperly armored in Iraq.

Please explain where Bush was when he was supposed to be serving.

Please explain why "torture is quaint"

I have more but that will do for now. You are not easily fooled. you area fool. Sorry your job stinks but you probably shouldn't be on the computer right now anyway. Aren't you wasting precious office time? Slacker.

"Listen pal. Don't take it out on us because you hate your job. Liberals were telling you you would hate it all through your college years."
Talk about putting the wagon in front of the horse. Where did I say I hate my job. In fact I love my job, make plenty of money and have an excellent portfolio. You just assume that you know what you are talking about, and as usual you don't. Your views will change when you reach the real world. That has nothing to do with your job. WTF are you even talking about? No president will ever be perfect. But I would not put my life or any of my loved ones lives in the hands of pussy liberals, EVER! When you grow up you will understand. So, for now go to your little class and whine some more 'cause you have no idea what you are talking about.

God, I love the "real world" vs. "Madison" argument that ALWAYS develops whenever alumni (drawn to the Badger Herald's long conservative reputation) drop in on the message boards.

Ahem, I've been in the "real world" for plenty of years (I actualy worked before going back to law school) and I found plenty of liberals actually even running the place. What did I work in? The outdoor industry and lobbying, both places where liberals and conservatives work side by side, in the same office, in the same industry, to achieve plenty of the same goals.

The idea that I "sell out" my ideals or change once I reach the real world is true if I a) don't actually have any ideals upon leaving college (something I believe is true of plenty of college students, simply because they don't think much about their worldview) or b) am I total wuss.

I don't plan on having to sell out my opinions or views any time soon upon reaching the real world. In fact, I'll show you plenty of wildly successful liberals (even the poorest member of the Senate, Russ Feingold, is worth 10 times what my parents ever were, Steve Jobs, Ted Turner) and point out that just because I may want to make money doesn't mean I have to be a Republican.

In fact, the idea that Democrats are anti-business or willingly poor (a true comparison if all Democrats were like hippies, which is like saying all Republicans are like Branch Davidians) is just one of the many comfortable myths Republicans like to go to bed with at night in order to justify their selfish existence. Because, admit it, Republicans are the Me Party. It's all about getting ahead and damn the little guy. Which is why its so interesting that poor rural Americans EVER buy into their party, but that's a whole column's worth of ranting.

No, Anonymous in the Real World, you NEVER had principles worth a damn, and I will never sell my liberal ones simply because I have a job. That's such utter horseshit, only someone willing to sell out their own values to the highest bidder would ever propose it.

-=Rob Deters=-

Oh Rob, I am sorry I was not able to finish reading your last post but my eyes kept tearing up because of the extreme amount of laughter that has been coming from me every time you type something. You again, made judgements that had no facts. I have been a proud republican since my early days. Good for you lil buddy for working for a couple of years. No kidding there are successful democrats, I don't remember saying there wasn't? Thank you for the great laughs.

Why you may try to paint republicans as the "me party," claiming we are selfish, we are really the "do it yourself" party, or "don't expect handouts from the government" party... or if you still dont get it, "get off your lazy ass and work instead of collecting my tax dollars in welfare" party. As a very strong republican i am still as generous as i can be (while being a broke college student) in my donations and i give of my time. I don't need the government to make me give to people... that is just abuse waiting to happen, and does.

"we are really the "do it yourself" party, or "don't expect handouts from the government" party... or if you still dont get it, "get off your lazy ass and work instead of collecting my tax dollars in welfare" party."

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bush is just a pawn of the Clinton Machine! Bush must suffer until Hillary is President, at which time the Clinton victory in Iraq will be celebrated - then and only then, no matter what!

***

Clinton's victory in Iraq

I passed a television at the gym yesterday, and it was showing a familiar scene: A crowd of Arabs dancing, chanting, and waving flags for the camera.

Stereotypically, of course, those kinds of Arab crowds are celebrating something awful: A terrorist attack, the downing of a plane, whatever.

But this time, they were celebrating democracy.

And it occurred to me that the "root cause" crowd ought to be celebrating along with them. After all, we've heard for decades that Arab terrorism resulted from Arab despotism, and that if we wanted to end terrorism we ought to quit supporting Arab despots and work for democracy. But it was all talk until one brave man in the White House stood up for Iraqi freedom.

That man was Bill Clinton, who signed the Iraq Liberation Act back in 1998. That Act called for "regime change," and the replacement of Saddam with a democratically elected government. And that's what we're about to get! Nor was Clinton alone.

***

I think it's jealousy. Bush-hatred has become all-consuming among a large section of the Democratic Party, and they can't stand the thought of anything that reflects well on him, even if it's good for the country, and if it's something that was their idea originally.

The question is whether the Democratic Party -- which ought to be cheering events that vindicate Clinton's policies -- will do itself fatal damage by giving in to envy. Such small-mindedness doesn't suggest a party that's ready to govern.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6859893/#050131

Also, Warren G. Harding was our greatest President, not Lincoln as you ignorantly claim.

I am disgusted.

Liberals for the love of god, please read this article by one of your own! Open your minds.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/brown/cst-nws-brown01.html

I suppose the fact that you rethugs have no principles (and call we who do idealists) is why you have no problem with Bush signing on to torturing prisoners. After all it doesn't matter what happens to others as long as you get ahead, feel safer, etc. . What you always, and I mean always, fail to see in a conservative mind, is a desire to help others. Why do you think educators are liberals? It's because they are willing to take less pay as long as they know they are helping others. A conservative will say "fuck the student I want my cash" everytime. So you complain about school being liberal when it is your own fellow rethugs selfish greed driven mindset that makes it that way.

Iraq's elections were a joke.I am all for democracy there, but this was a publicity stunt by an administration who is not about freedom but restriction of freedoms:PAtriot Act, Torture, Arresting people without charging them, secrets that only Bushies have access to, and it goes on.

DRAFT REPUBLICANS FIRST. FIGHT YOUR OWN WARS YOU PUSSIES.

^^^^^ Wow, you are fucking nuts! Your mind is so far out there, I don't think any liberal would be proud to call you one of "them". The elections were a joke? Get real. We freed those people. They are happy. Draft? Another stupid statement. The issue was brought to the house floor by democrats, NOT republicans. It is bitter liberals like you that make me happy, people like you are the reason us republicans will control this gov. for a long time to come. No one wants crazy, whinning babies in control.

I am insane?

Here is the freedom we are giving the Iraqis. Go and look if you can stomach it you thug.

http://crisispictures.org/

Go fight in your own war you sick pathetic little man. 200,000 Iraqis are dead since we occupied Iraq. 1400 Americans are dead. 10k+ Americans are maimed. Why don't you go over there and get your arms blow off or a piece of shrapnel embedded in your groin and then come back and tell me about the freedom.

You make me sick hiding behind such words as freedom and democracy. Where are the WMD's? Isn't that why we went there? Not to promote democracy.

I'd like one Republican under 30 to tell me why they support a war they will not fight in. I am laying down a challenge. Please explain to me how you are not chickenshit when you send others to die for your war. I would never support a war that I wouldn't fight in so please tell me why you are not enlisting?

I agree with that poster except Republicans shouldn't be drafted the should be volunteering. Instead they wave the flag and send some innercity kid who enlisted in the guard to better himself through education off to die. Keep waving that flag with your blood stained hands.

In keeping in line with recent disclosures that the republicans have been paying newspapers to support thier views (so its the "liberal media" again?) I'm assuming this article has been paid for by the RNC.

Challenge accepted. I just returned from 14 months of duty. Was injured and still believe this war is justified. I enrolled when I was eighteen, not becuase of financial difficulties. So yes, you are insane. When you have seen the people wave and try and hug you then you can throw some website with fabricated photos in my face. In the meantime, you make me sick.

Rank? Unit? Name? Unless you give them out I don't see anyone reason why anyone should believe you anymore than any other liar in your party (Bush). Provided you are real soldire and not some nerd on the other end of a computer. Please tell me what you mean by this war being "justified" and don't say because it gave "freedom" to the Iraqi people. There are literally scores of other countries with oppressive regimes that we could invade if our goal is to spread democracy.

Also please explain how those photos are fabricated? Or do you simply assume they are fabricated because they do not gibe with your fantasy land where all is fuzzy and American troops never kill anyone except terrorists? This is the problem with the "new"republican party. They have a worldview and anything that doesn't gibe with that view must be false. Thus profs are liberals instead of trying to educate. The media is libreal when it reports something they don't want to hear. The phots are fabricated etc. etc. Sorry to tell you pal but the world doesn't function according to an ideology.

17000 Iraqis are dead at least. These are the reported deaths. Many sources estimate the deaths as much higher.2/3 of those are women and children.

AND so the "looming Iraqi election fiasco" joins "the brutal Afghan winter" and "the brutal Iraqi summer" and "the seething Arab street" and all the other junk in the overflowing trash can of post-9/11 Western media fictions. The sight of millions of brave voters emerging from polling stations holding high their purple dye-stained fingers was so inspiring that, from America's Democratic Party to European protest rallies, opponents of the war waited, oh, all of three minutes before flipping the Iraqis their own fingers, undyed.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12107390%255E7583,00.html

Well I am a liberal and I am happy the Iraqis get to vote. Even if the 57% is only of registered voters I still thnk like 8 million people voted. Wonderful!

However, that doesn't change the fact that Bush lied about why we were going into Iraq. No Wmd's 9and he knew it) no immediate threat or nuclear program.

The Guardian had an intersting story today:
On September 4 1967 the New York Times published an upbeat story on presidential elections held by the South Vietnamese puppet regime at the height of the Vietnam war. Under the heading "US encouraged by Vietnam vote: Officials cite 83% turnout despite Vietcong terror", the paper reported that the Americans had been "surprised and heartened" by the size of the turnout "despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting". A successful election, it went on, "has long been seen as the keystone in President Johnson's policy of encouraging the growth of constitutional processes in South Vietnam". The echoes of this weekend's propaganda about Iraq's elections are so close as to be uncanny.

With the past few days' avalanche of spin, you could be forgiven for thinking that on January 30 2005 the US-led occupation of Iraq ended and the people won their freedom and democratic rights. This has been a multi-layered campaign, reminiscent of the pre-war WMD frenzy and fantasies about the flowers Iraqis were collecting to throw at the invasion forces. How you could square the words democracy, free and fair with the brutal reality of occupation, martial law, a US-appointed election commission and secret candidates has rarely been allowed to get in the way of the hype.

rest of article is here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1403103,00.html

"make the choice to serve in a cause larger than your wants, larger than yourself -- and in your days you will add not just to the wealth of our country, but to its character."
This sounds exactly like the standard line of "the meek shall inherit the earth" which is bullshit

Alright! I'm all for ending tyranny. Let me get my list...

Shit, where to start. Well the king of Nepal just disbanded the parliamentary government today, and Nepalese young adults are disappearing in large numbers, most of the disappearences due to Nepalese government troops. We could start there. NO wait, we just gave them $22 million to fight "insurgents". Sorry Nepal.

How about the mass killings (not officially genocide, so tough to qualify) in Darfur? Many people have lost their homes and fled to refugee camps, where do we bomb, right? No, no real interest.

Ooh, I got it, how about N Korea. They've got it all. Crazy dictator, foolish glasses, official indoctrination (of course very different than what the article advocates above), and real live WMDs. Wait, we better check with China first!

China is a real winner. Still pushing forward with jail of dissentors without any trial or representation. Members of teh Falun Gong were imprisoned by the thousands just for mass manifestations of practicing their spirituality. The internet is still censored there. They are real live commies! They even refuse to allow Taiwan independence. Nope, the gov says we should open the markets with them.
(We can go after the Communists in Cuba, where human rights violations are on a much smaller scale, but also has 11 million potental consumers to China's 1.3 billion).

I'm all ready to spread liberty and justice for all. Let's end this damn tyranny concept. I just am so confused.