Nice work, Joanna! I am an African-American who attended a Catholic school back east. We wore uniforms every day. Although it took some getting used to, the orderliness of the student population and the quality of the education I received far outweighed any discomfort felt by adhering to a strict dress code. Other black kids in my neighborhood shook their heads in disbelief that I would voluntarily submit to such an "authoritarian" learning environment. But in the end, I went off to college while they had to settle for less fruitful opportunities in life. I got a better education than my parents had and I am forever grateful that they made the decision to send me to a better school.

Now let's fast-forward to the present day. Two bars are picketed for enforcing a dress code that prohibits attire that is most closely associated with gangs. Gangs are really just about the only people on the street who wear that kind of clothing anyway. I'm a liberal myself, but I must say that I find it absurd that liberals, of all people, would protest a drinking establishment's ultimate course of action to alleviate problems that were just getting completely out of hand. What exactly would be a credible liberal solution to barroom brawls involving large groups of highly intoxicated patrons? Should the bars in question simply face closure for failing to deal with the problem effectively? Is facing the prospect of less revenue generated by these two popular establishments in an already financially strapped city the only way to achieve racial diversity.

Maybe it's easy for an educated black person like me to frown upon those less fortunate, but I would also address the reasons for their misfortune: negative cultural influences that glorify drugs and violence. I grew up in a poor, predominantly black neighborhood in the lower east side of Manhattan. Pervasive depravation was certainly not a foreign concept to me. It was all around me. The best education attainable was the only ticket out of there. Perhaps a dress code would be extreme for many, but for me, it was just a minor burden that I merely took in stride.

I won't fret over the loss of choices of barroom regalia at Brothers and Johnny O's. I don't see the ban as racist, nor should anyone else. And I agree that my fellow liberals would score more victories by getting active in more pressing issues than what to wear to a party. The days of protesting merely for the sake of protesting are a thing of the past. It's time put our efforts where effort will truly count for something.

I know you can't change your race but now you can't change your shirt?

If any of the people protesting knew anything about the history surronding the Brother's, Johnny O's, Bullwinkles/Amazon/Madison Ave. area you would know why these bars instituted dress codes. I can remember being in high school and knowing that come around 2 am on Thursday-Saturday night you just don't frequent that area because there were a ridiculous amount of fights that occurred on that corner.

That being said, the area right outside of Stillwaters and Bullfeather's isn't that pleasant either. Are the protestors going to picket Bullfeather's for trying to reinsitute dance night on Thursdays and charging $10 at the door?

The funniest part is that the students protesting the dress codes are probably the ones least affected by it as well. Not sure if I saw any skull caps in the crowd there. Anyone who thinks a bar owner who just opened a redesigned bar wants to TURN AWAY customers because of their race is insane. Maybe it's because he doesn't want a constant police presence due to fights from the bars inception... For the love of God, this isn't a systematic problem. If you are wearing any of the banned clothing, I'm sure the other five million downtown bars would be more than happy to have your patronage.

Well said Poster 1.

Poster 2: Ah yes, the good ole days when it seemed half the Madison police force worked for Brothers Bar...
Personally I don't know why anyone would want to go to that dumpy meat market anyway. There are so many (better) options in Madison. It might just be that I am old now and I prefer to go to places like Orpheum, State Bar, Great Dane, and Essen Haus.

I just like the thought of Joanna Salmen in a plaid skirt and knee-highs! Rawwwrrr!

I'm personally against these dress codes, but after reading factual information about why they put them in place, I'm a little less disturbed about them. Let's keep in mind that the degree of violence and who was doing it is factual, but "that hip-hop and those blacks are always bringing their guns and bling bling everywhere fuckin it up for everyone" is not factual, that's racist...and stupid.
I think what the bar owner should do is just come out and say that he is putting these dress codes in place to keep out hip-hop personalities so he can just be an asshole instead of a lying asshole. He obvioulsy is not trying to put something in place where people in the bar look nice, becuase you can walk into Johnny O's or Brothers looking like a whore, homeless person, crackhead, dirty trucker, whatever. They aren't trying to only let people who look nice in, they're trying to keep people who fit this cultural hip-hop description--white, black, or other--out. If they would just say that, the argument about why they're really doing this would be much more credible.

I'm personally against these dress codes, but after reading factual information about why they put them in place, I'm a little less disturbed about them. Let's keep in mind that the degree of violence and who was doing it is factual, but "that hip-hop and those blacks are always bringing their guns and bling bling everywhere fuckin it up for everyone" is not factual, that's racist...and stupid.
I think what the bar owner should do is just come out and say that he is putting these dress codes in place to keep out hip-hop personalities so he can just be an asshole instead of a lying asshole. He obvioulsy is not trying to put something in place where people in the bar look nice, becuase you can walk into Johnny O's or Brothers looking like a whore, homeless person, crackhead, dirty trucker, whatever. They aren't trying to only let people who look nice in, they're trying to keep people who fit this cultural hip-hop description--white, black, or other--out. If they would just say that, the argument about why they're really doing this would be much more credible.

And I don't see what this has to do with school uniforms. There is supposedly no uniform way of dressing according to these bars, except maybe a uniform way of not dressing. That argument is invalid and is only used to provide real-life support to this extremely weakly argued article.

is this an important issue? of course not.

BUT... is this a VISIBLE symptom of a much larger, more harmful issue? certainly.

when it comes to race, madison isn't nearly as progressive as it likes to think it is. the dress codes at brothers and johnny o's are simply the easiest target and perhaps the most "winnable" battle. what these protests are doing is energizing people around issues of race and racism in madison again. hopefully, this will spill over into other arenas, such as campus climate at UW, racial profiling by the madison police, and other more important issues.

i truly believe that the organizers of these protests understand this point. no one REALLY cares about the dress codes at two lame bars. this is more of a media/consciousness-raising battle. you have to look at the bigger picture.

I found this article to be worthless. Joanna's pinnacle defense was, "The dress codes of Brothers and Johnny O's... clearly were not meant to keep an entire race or culture from entering either of the establishments." Who said anything about entirety?
Someone with violent tendancies is not going to leave them at home with their do-rag. making people dress "better" is not going to make them a better bar patron. Rather, they are not asking these people to change their clothes, but instead to not come at all. Do-rags don't cause violence, people cause violence.
They clearly ARE trying to exclude a culture. They are excluding a culture that they see as more likely to instigate violence in their businesses. That's why they are targeting the clothes that people who identify with that culture are more likely to wear.
While that sort of prejudice should be cause for concern, it is somewhat defensable considering that fashion is a choice and the dress code is not explicetly economically or racially biased.
The primary complaint is not that the dress codes exist, but that they are being enforced unfairly against minorities. The Daily Cardinal quoted the "Rascist Dress Code Colition" spokesperson as alledging, " ..we saw three people come out of the bar... and of course they were white."
The bars are associating violence with a culture, and that culture is closely associated with people of a particular skin color. Predicting behavior based on skin color is racial profiling, and racial profiling IS something to protest. I'm surprised that all of Joanna's participation in "worthy" madison protests didn't help her realize that this one is worth our attention.

Sincerely,

Michael Eckblad

The only reason people care about this issue is the student papers keep writing about it. Certainly no one that was in those bars that night gave two sh*ts.

And as for the dress code: Its not that hard to follow. Just put on a collared shirt. Or if you feel the need to wear your jersey, go to a different bar. There are hundreds of them.

All the people posting above who support the protest, that's fine, we'll build a bar where there are no dress codes, and all the hip hop culture can go there, and you can go there too! I'm sure you'll have the time of your life! Have fun! ;)

The Daily Cardinal quoted the "Rascist Dress Code Colition" spokesperson as alledging, " ..we saw three people come out of the bar... and of course they were white."

Of course, they fail to mention these "white" people were wearing UW jerseys at Brothers, and that Brothers has ALWAYS permitted the jerseys of UW teams and their opponents on home gamedays. But let's not let facts get in the way or anything.....

Mike,

Culture is something you choose. Race is somthing that you're stuck with, for better or for worse. Discriminating based on culture is fine. Some cultures are terrible. Some practice female circumcision, force women to wear headscarves, engage in footbinding, eat people, perform human sacrifice, and glorify violence.

Discriminating based on race is not OK.

As for the "bigger picture" Madison, despite its lack of racial diversity, is one of the least racist places on earth. Almost everyone goes out of his/her way to be hyperinclusive. The only way it could get less racist is through outlawing free speech. That's it. There is no other way. There are always going to be racists, just like there will always be really stupid protesters, you just have to ignore them on your way into the bar.

If there are other bars that have dress codes, why protest only these two bars? Why not protest bowling alleys for requiring people to wear a certain kind of shoes out on the lanes? Why not protest businesses just because they require you to wear shirts and shoes? Why not just protest this entire existence of our just because anti-matter in parallel worlds are not allowed to exist here? God almighty, is Madison ever a joke!

You bunch of hippies just can't go one week without protesting something. Just for laughs, here's a joke for you:

Why couldn't the lifeguard save the hippy from drowning? Because he far out.

I would like to reiterate what the first poseter said. Gangs are the only people who wear the kind of clothes that the bars want to ban. Who else would that same kind of clothing for fear of being mistaken for a rival gang member? The fact that the first poster comes from an underprivileged background and is able to see the dress code of her school as something positive is evidence that not all are opposed to necessary change. While we may resist what we feel are attempts to take away our freedoms, we must also examine the circumstances. The prevalent gang culture in our society is and always has been destructive. It's not just about music or clothes. It's about barbaric attitudes. Not all African-Americans wear gang attire. Believe me, no one hates gangs more than African-Americans. Just like no one hates the Mafia more than Italian-Americans.

It would be childish to assert that the dress codes those two bars instituted are racist. If you are Baptist and you are asked to leave a worship service because you came in wearing sandals, jeans with holes in them and a Metallica t-shirt, could you rightfully accuse the congregation of being anti-Baptist? Protesting everything will accomplish nothing, except to show other people that you have a narrow mind. Not all change is bad. Change is often necessary for a variety of good reasons. Think about it before you decide whether you should protest.

Before everyone gets all worked up about this, why don't we here what someone who works there has to say before we jump to conclusions. Oh wait, I know someone like that, and oh yeah that's
me!!! I am a bouncer at Madison Avenue, and we are the one's whom enforce the dress code the majority of the time, not John. I can't see how people can point fingers at one person and see HE'S racist! Now I can say it straight to you guys, we will reject a 40 year-old married white couple who is wearing jerseys from the hockey game just as quickly as we'll reject a 22 year old African-American who's wearing a basketball jersey. The fact of the matter is, it's a privately owned business that feels having a dress code is the best way of promoting a safe, classy atmosphere. IN the matter of the 4 weeks that Madison Avenue has been open, we have had a total of one, count it one fight, and that occured outside of the place. You can't say that for the record at the KK or Amazon/Bullwinkle's that used to be there, can you? We are trying to promote a safe, fun, and upscale environment. If you feel that you personally as an individual are being discriminated against because your wearing a logo t-shirt, a jersey, or a bandanna out to a classy establishment, than don't go there, there's 50 other bars in the University area that will allow you in. From what I've heard as well as the majority of people who work there- 10 to 1 in favor of having a dress code, what's it to dress up and look nice if your going out!!

This classy argument needs to end. You can walk into Johnny O's looking like you've been homeless for 5 years or like a prostitute. Maybe you should just say that you are discriminating a culture, and it's curbing the violence, and it's legal. Stop using this idiotic argument about making it classy. It's a bar, not an upscale New York nightclub, when you make a dress code for all people to wear semi-formal dress, then you can make a "classy" argument. Just be real about it and quit acting like lying assholes.