I hope the fact that Mr. Thoms can not spell is not indicative of the quality of education provided by the University of Wisconsin.

There you go again. Black or White. He can't spell so he must be a dunce. Not "perhaps someone at the paper messed up". Why don't you non-students get the hell off this board? Get a life rather than showing off to a bunch of college kids your witty intellect.

Good article Mike. A bit obvious at times, and you should lose the "I am an American and proud part" this sounds too much like you are being cowed in the same way that your article describes.

"Why don't you non-students get the hell off this board? Get a life rather than showing off to a bunch of college kids your witty intellect."

Why don't you students try to learn something while you're here, asshole? Stop wasting your parent's/taxpayers' money and get an education. That's what you're here for. And yes, you are indeed a bunch of kids.

Spelling or not, keep writing! Loved the article!

-A UW student who cares less about spelling and more about substance.

Oooooohhh calling college students a bunch of kids, that one really hurts. I bet that poster is just getting all bent out of shape because someone a few years older then him called him a kid.
It takes a lot of maturity to come on to a college newspaer's message board and get into an argument over spelling and call some "college kid" and asshole. You really shouldn't take your sales job so seriously old man.

It's funny hearing folks attempt to defend Kerry on being wishy washy. President Bush is not wishy washy. Howard Dean is not wishy washy.

Two diametrically opposed candidates would have made for a far better debate and far better campaign than the current one. At least people would understand the difference between the candidates.

Kerry fuzzes up his positions in hopes that folks won't realize what he truly stands for. That makes for a confusing and frustrating campaign season.

Actually, I'm 18, and I'm earning my degree online from another University. No wacko extremists giving me crap because I won't see things their way, no asshole dormmates who won't wash their smelly bodies, no party animals to navigate around on the streets downtown because I don't live downtown and no loud stereos.

Education in a traditional campus setting is on its way out! And so are assholes like you. While you have a tight schedule, I have flexibility. While you have to stand in line to pay tuition and get textbooks, I pay tuition online and have all my learning materials delivered. Oh gosh, I'm just so cushy-cushy! Suffer, all you disgusting little brats! You made that puddle of beer barf, now you have to fall over into it. Ha-ha-ha!! Losers!

Oh, I'm sorry but your post made you previous comments even more ridiculous.
An 18 yr-old, getting an on-line degree is going to talk shit about UW students?
And if you think your new on-line univeristy is the wave of the future, it's because you are getting a degree from an on-line university and could not get into a real college.
We can all pay tuition on-line and buy books on-line. Your perception of college life is very infantile. By the way maybe your mommy and daddy should be monitoring what internet content you look at from their home computer.

I was thinking about attending UW-Madison to study Mathematics, but after talking to people who are studying online and all the hassles they DON'T have to go through, I thought I'd give it a try.

I'm glad I did. Like another poster who is persuing his education online, I enjoy a lot of benifits that students in traditional settings can only dream of.

And the nicest thing about it is that I can think whatever I want without some anarchistic punk, whose aging-hippy liberal arts prof brainwashed him with extremist ideologies, gettin up in my face and calling me a fascist. And the little baby doesn't even take the time to find out where I really stand on the issues!

And since I won't be on YOUR campus any time soon, I don't mind saying that you are all a bunch of losers. You waste all your precious time on pointless demonstrations and binge drinking and not enough on your classes. Perhaps in ten years, when you're all working in dead-end jobs because you flunked out and your parents wouldn't take you back in, you'll realize how you just ruined your own chances of success in life. Do you really think people will be sympathetic after seeing your transcripts?

1st.Who called you a fascist?

2nd. What the hell are people talking about?

3rd. If your on-line college is so great, why do you care what UW students think about you?

4th. What are these benefits of on-line ed. that traditional students can only dream of. If its just the book and tuition thing, I do not get it.

Everyone needs to find education that fits them best, but putting down one way and saying yours is the best is just ridiculous. And it makes you look like a twit. Laslty, maybe if you didn't inacurately slander UW students incessantly they would care about your views on Bush and Kerry, the actual topic of this article.

"And if you think your new on-line univeristy is the wave of the future, it's because you are getting a degree from an on-line university and could not get into a real college..."

Actually, online degree programs are mostly offered by traditional educational institutions and have the same admissions requirements. While you may pay for your books online, you must still stand in line to pick them up.

I don't live at home with my parents anymore. I'm a big boy now. How about you? Do you still beg your parents for money to get your car fixed or to pay your rent when the truth is you have a DUI fine to pay? And what exactly is in the My Documents\My Pictures folder on YOUR hard drive? Kiddy porn?

By the way, "online" is not hyphenated, you ignorant UW-Madison student!

Well, it looks like one sure benefit is that people who earn their degrees online don't spell it with a hyphen! Try learning that at UW!

Who calls me a fascist? Ignorant ranters like yourself who make assumptions about people you don't know, something your profs keep telling you not to do. Remember: "When you assume..."

Why would I care what UW-Madison students think of me? Honestly, I don't care what they think. I only mentioned it because another poster brought it up. I happen to agree with him. I just wanted to seize the moment and give you extremists a little of what you dish out on campus everyday. You don't have us onliners to pick on. Too bad, soooo sad! Hey, if it's any comfort, I'm voting for Kerry. However, I really think you liberal extremists on campus need to cool your jets. You have no idea how much you irritate people especially other liberals.

"maybe if you didn't inacurately slander UW students incessantly..."

i-n-a-c-c-u-r-a-t-e-l-y. Got it?

Talk about assuming...
You accused people on this board of being fascists, liberal extremists, and ignorant.
I am sorry you had a bad experience with protesters or something, but you might have a problem with transference.
Also it's pretty weak to use the improper use of a hyphen or spelling to make fun of some one on a internet message board.
And you obviously care what UW students think or you would keep responding to their remarks about you. Actually most people care what others think about them, it's why we are social animals. It's also why people are able to mentally picture the perspective of the other.

"I hope the fact that Mr. Thoms can not spell is not indicative of the quality of education provided by the University of Wisconsin. "

Actually, CANNOT is one word.

Ah, but earning a degree takes you out of the campus rat race. I can devote my attention to serious study without getting flack from imbeciles like you. Not that anyone ever called me a fascist, but it's a comfort to know that I won't have to deal with it, since I'm not there.

As for the hyphen issue: I think it makes perfect sense to make fun of them. They're college students. Their spelling and grammar skills should be at a college freshman level at the very least!

While not all degrees are best earned online, those who can should. While tuition may not necessarily be cheaper, the additional costs associated with a traditional campus setting(i.e. student activities fees, parking, transportation) are nonexistent.

So tell me, who is coming out ahead?

"I hope the fact that Mr. Thoms can not spell is not indicative of the quality of education provided by the University of Wisconsin. "

Actually, CANNOT is one word.

So no one ever called you a fascist, yet you claim people did?

And to another post, cannot can be one or two words. Look it up.

Wow, there really is a big difference between earning a college degree and actually learning something. The online degree earners didn't misspell a single word. No problems with grammar or syntax either.

Maybe I ought to check out this online degree thing myself. I'm liable to wind up a total moron if I stick around on this campus much longer. Too many morons here as it is!

Yeah I think I'll take a look at this online deal too. Too many fascists in this school. What's really scary is that all the fascists are liberal, a contradiction in terms.

You've never heard of liberal fascists? How about compassionate conservatives? Military intelligence? Diversity in Wisconsin?

Hey moron, I'm a liberal but I'm not a fascist! As for contradictions, how about you as a college student? Sounds pretty contradictory to me. I guess if they didn't let morons into college, Wisconsin wouldn't be so diverse. Liberal fascism seems to have become synonymous with military intelligence anyway. Maybe it was a compassionate conservative who made it possible for you to get admitted, like say, your rich parents who can only be UW alumni.

Why don't you idiots who are arguing about online vs. on-campus just stick to the original issue. And the original issue is...um wait, what was the issue again?

So it's the home schooled kid vs. the frat boy! Love it.

I went to UW, I'm a moderate conservative, and I do know how to spell...although I've been told by many that my story and joke telling abilities are very subpar. I wonder if that's because I went to Madison? I can drink like a fish, though - definitely a byproduct of my time at UW.

Back to the article..."with us or against us" is not a comment on American citizens dissenting with the administration. It's in direct reference to threat by the administration that if you harbor known terrorists in your country, we will not stand for it. Taking this quote and applying it to discourse within our boundaries is far-reaching at best. Just more liberal blather is what it reeks of most. I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion, but if I disagree with it in favor of the administration's stance on foreign policy, don't accuse me of intolerance, suppression, censorship, etc.

True attempts at censorship look more like what the left is trying to do to the Sinclair Broadcast Group.

We can read the IP address dude. If you're going to troll it's generally customary that other people and not you respond to the flames. Go Bucky, or at least that's what US News said, but I guess your appraisal carries more weight.

-Patrick M. Klemz
Associate Sports Editor

I would agree that, even though conservative ideas aren't very popular, liberals have a few duds of their own. Who ended slavery? A Republican. Who started the draft during the Vietnam war? A Democrat.

If politicians would just just do the will of the people, then we'd all be a lot better off. Everyone is entitled to feel safe, to a job, to a higher standard of living. No one deserves to be discriminated against. Conservatives often argue that they're policies are not really discriminatory, whereas liberals feel that it is okay to discriminate against certain demographics(i.e. white males, Jews, heterosexuals, Christians).

The mentalities described above are obviously fascist and can be found in both conservative and liberal camps. It's just too bad that too many people have an us-against-them mindset and everyone who disagrees with them even on a minor point is automatically the bad guy.

As for the election, I'll vote for Kerry. Bush has had his four years. I'm not so confident that Kerry will do a better job, and I hope that liberals will have the guts to admit it if Kerry makes a few unpopular decisions of his own.

Oh my God, the Badger Herald knows our IP addresses! They're coming to get us! Everyone, hide your SUVs! Put file cabinets up in front of the windows so they can't shoot at you! The thought police are taking over! Mighty Mouse, save us! Save us!

That's right, Pat Klemz is the Associate Sports Editor of the Badger Herald, second to God, sometimes he IS God. So mind your Ps and Qs. Say anything he-sorry-He don't like and he'll hunt you down via your IP address and ZZZZZZZAP!!!!! He'll cut ya right in half! Talk about bein' disconnected, heh heh!

Oh yeah, he'll reach right out from inside your monitor and grab you by the balls and then what are ya gonna do? Huh? What are ya gonna do?! Nothin', cuz Pat Klemz is omnipotent! He's everywhere, just like God!

Infidels beware.

People, don't feed the troll...he feeds off of your need to make him engage in reasonable arguments.

For anyone who agrees with the above column (or doesn't, but wants to know more about the viewpoint), I suggest the online journalist David Neiwert at

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com

Sorry, can't resist: to the student too good for the UW--I hope your "education" isn't represented by the childish stereotypes you've slung in your posts. I can outdrink and outthink you, son.

Yeah right, and kill the poor innocent brain cells. Well, I don't drink excessively like you and two thirds of the student population in Madison do. No wonder a UW-Madison isn't worth much. How often do they have to lower their standards so you all can graduate? Ha ha ha ha ha!! The troll strikes again! Ha ha ha ha ha!

Coincidentally, I am from Minnesota.

Hey, drinker and thinker, haven't heard from you in awhile! What's the matter, cat got your mouse? Ha ha ha ha!

"I would agree that, even though conservative ideas aren't very popular, liberals have a few duds of their own. Who ended slavery? A Republican. Who started the draft during the Vietnam war? A Democrat."

That's a fair point. But Lincoln would be ashamed to be a Republican today. Do some research into his stances on important issues before trying to compare Bush to Lincoln. Lincoln was probably the greatest American president, whereas Bush is clearly in the bottom five.

"Conservatives often argue that they're policies are not really discriminatory, whereas liberals feel that it is okay to discriminate against certain demographics(i.e. white males, Jews, heterosexuals, Christians)."

That's also true. But it's still important to note that conservatives' policies still tend to be discriminatory, in effect if not in intent, and liberals who think it's ok to discriminate against anyone don't really understand what liberalism is about.

Since both liberals and conservatives are full of crap, it's up to the moderates to pick up the pieces and try to make something of the mess the idiots on both sides of the ideological divide have left us.

I'm with the last poster who said that it's up to moderates to turn things around. I for one am sick of both parties pretending to really care about the direction in which this country is heading. Liberals and conservatives simply have to accept the fact that they can't always have it completely their way. Both parties have merely divided us all into two camps: those who have what they don't need at the expense of others(Republicans) and those who want what everyone else has...at the expense of others(Democrats).

Not many of us have ever seriously considered the moderate viewpoint on any issue. I think lots of folks will find that sometimes meeting each other halfway is the only way to learn to trust each other, the only way to get anything done. It's not as hard as it seems.

good points about a moderate outlook on things, but remember that the left/right dynamic has nothing at all to do with right/wrong. sometimes a compromise is best, but sometimes the most radical positions are indeed right and we shouldn't be scared of them. you have to judge ideas by how much sense they make, not whether the people who believe in them are liberals or conservatives or socialists or whatever.

i'm just tired of people saying that "liberals and conservatives are both a bunch of crazies so i'm going to be right in the middle." that view assumes that the logical solution to all problems is some kind of moderate compromise. and moderate compromises have their place, but they're definitely not ALWAYS the solution-- as a matter of fact, they're fairly ineffective at making any kind of positive change in the world.

moderatism (is that a word?), in a sense, supports the status quo, and the status quo is poverty, hunger, death and destruction in much of the world. and that isn't my ultra-liberal opinion-- that's just the way it is.

i don't even remember what this article was about, but the feedback has been entertaining.

But you must re-read the paragraph from on of the above posts:

"Conservatives often argue that they're policies are not really discriminatory, whereas liberals feel that it is okay to discriminate against certain demographics(i.e. white males, Jews, heterosexuals, Christians)."

THESE are the mentalities that have long existed among liberals and conservatives. And it is THESE mentalities that are dangerous. Since the callousness of conservatives is pretty self-evident, I'll focus on the liberal side of the fence.

Why punish ALL white males just because of the few who actually commit hate crimes. Most leaders in government and the private sector may be white males, but look at how many white males never achieve that level of success. And not all conservatives are white males either. Any white male who tells the Ku Klux Klan to f*** off and is willing to risk getting arrested or beaten up defending minorities is someone liberals damn well better respect!

Heterosexuals are very active and very impassioned in the gay rights movement. Twenty years ago, you'd be lucky to find any heterosexuals who'd dare to speak up. I know a straight man who braved the barbarity of a lesbian who falsely accused him of showing up at a PFLAG event "just so he can bang 14-year-old gay boys." Remarkably, he ignored her and stayed for the entire event and she was later asked to leave. He could have just left when she started, and who could have blamed him? I would have walked out, and I'm a lesbian myself!

How much more bullshit will Jews have to put up with before other minoritiy groups finally decide to lighten up. Jews have been solidly behind every minority movement in this country, so other minorities owe them a lot of respect and gratitude. In Israel, Jews face the danger of suicide bombers every day. All who are opposed to Jews defending themselves obviously forget how the whole Muslim-Jewish conflict began--Muslims wanted the Jews to give up being Jews or face death. Allah was now God, not Yahweh. After 1350 years, the Muslims are still at it.

We live in a democracy, and in a democracy no one has to give a shit about anyone else if they don't want to. The simple fact that there are people who do care is something to celebrate, not something to bash everyone within arm's reach over the head with. Conservative ideas became popular again because liberals went too far.

Whether you are politically active for real change or just for status, there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. Being an extremist idiot is definitely wrong. It only turns people off.

I'm interested in knowing why Kerry supporters continue to vandalize property all over Dane County with swastikas. Swastikas?! Have liberals suddenly become Nazis? Sounds like they are targeting Jews, just because they got fed up with liberals bashing them. So now liberals show their true colors by defacing property.

Bush does not impress me at all, but neither does Kerry. As for liberals, they can all go to hell. This will not be a victory for them. All liberals are Nazi assholes. Not just the ones who are committing acts of vandalism, but the ones who are silent about the whole thing. Every one of them shares the blame!

"I'm interested in knowing why Kerry supporters continue to vandalize property all over Dane County with swastikas. Swastikas?! Have liberals suddenly become Nazis? Sounds like they are targeting Jews, just because they got fed up with liberals bashing them. So now liberals show their true colors by defacing property."

What makes you think it's liberals vandalizing property with swastikas? Unless you're the one doing it yourself or you've observed and identified the people responsible, you can't possibly know. Besides, it's not out of the question that conservatives are defacing their own signs and blaming it on liberals in a cynical attempt to curry sympathy.

"All liberals are Nazi assholes."

That's just a dumbass thing to say. Consider this: over 80% of American Jews voted for Gore in the last election, a proportion that has been pretty consistent for decades. Roughly four out of every five American Jews are what you would call liberals. So you just called all those Jews Nazis. That's just sick. You should be ashamed of yourself.

"...it's not out of the question that conservatives are defacing their own signs and blaming it on liberals in a cynical attempt to curry sympathy."

Oh yeah, right, conservatives are actually going outside and spray-painting swastikas on their own property. Sounds like something left-wing radicals are more inclined to do. Anything to avoid the suspicions of others, eh?

"...over 80% of American Jews voted for Gore in the last election, a proportion that has been pretty consistent for decades. Roughly four out of every five American Jews are what you would call liberals. So you just called all those Jews Nazis."

Maybe in the last election, but many Jews have jumped the fence since then, thanks to growing anti-Semitism among liberals. A lot has changed in the last three years, my friend. You scratch our back, we'll scratch yours; otherwise, the honeymoon's over.

Shalom.

Good points being raised here and I hate to interrupt with such a senseless topic.

Hey buddy, you got caught proxy posting, quite possibly the most pathetic misdeed a person can commit in the digital age. Christ, that means you can't even find a living person willing to agree or disagree with you of their own volition.

Nice try to spin it though. I mean, it didn't work but at least you can have a good argument with yourself about it.

-klemz

Pat, there's a perfectly good reason why people are starting to use proxies: assholes like you love to trace us down for God knows what! Maybe if we notified the UW administration, you'd still spy on us, wouldn't you. I've got e-mails sent out already. If what you're doing is illegal or unjustified under these circumstances, then I feel sorry for you...then again, maybe I don't.

An IP address is not a confidential peice of information, any server you visit can read it. Nobody said anything about "tracking you down," I'm just giving you sh#t for proxy posting. The only thing you can do with an IP address is block it, which you'll notice we haven't. Keep your imagination in check kid. There's no black helicopters, just some drunk guy in Madison having a laugh.
slainte,
klemz

Pat, you seem to spen a disproportionate amount or your time tracking other people's IP addresses. Is that all you do? Don't you have a social life? Don't you have a girlfriend or boyfriend? Did you live in your parents's basement? Do you still live there. Do you spend your free time thinnking up wild conspiracy theories about the JFK assassination and Area 51? Who does your laundry?

There's a whole world happening out there, dude. You don't own any assault weapons, do you? You're not gonna cut loose on the campus with guns like that Charles Whitman guy down in Texas did, are you?

Hey folks, whatever you do, don't piss off Pat Klemz! He just might snap and cold-smoke clear everybody! Watch what you post here! He's watching! And he's coming for you!

Man, this Pat Klemz guy must not have any friends if he spends all his time at the Badger Herald tracking IPs. It makes me wanna think twice about buying anything online ever again.

So what else do you know about us, Pat? How many people's credit card numbers are you using to pay for your tuition, among other things? Whose credit card number do you use to buy Badger tickets? Dude, just don't get caught, that's all I can tell you.

A sniffer on the Badger Herald Staff?! Does the Chancellor know about this? I guess I won't be reading the Badger Herald again. Pat Klemz, go to hell!

(chuckle)

Um....what were we talking about initally? I kinda forgot.