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Tuition hike draws ire

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by Nick Penzenstadler

Wednesday, March 21, 2007

Students expressed their disapproval Tuesday of a proposed $700 semester tuition increase for the University of Wisconsin's College of Engineering.

Confronted with a barrage of skepticism, Dean Paul Peercy defended the increase — which could be implemented as soon as April's Board of Regents meeting — saying the College of Engineering is facing a $1,000-per-student deficit.

"We began discussion with associate deans well over two years ago," Peercy said. "I discussed the issue with the provost and the vice chancellor and they agreed we should proceed and come up with a recommendation."

Along with the $700-per-semester tuition increase, Peercy said alumni and other benefactors' donations would alleviate the College of Engineering's deficit.

When asked what role the upcoming April 11 meeting of Polygon — the College of Engineering's student government organization — would play in the decision, Peercy said it would only be a recommendation.

"Ultimately, the decision is the Board of Regents', but I want to make sure you understand the situation," Peercy said. "We're not alone in this situation. One way to think about it is engineering is a profession."

Since its students are considered professionals upon graduation, Peercy said the undergraduate program should be compared to the UW Law School, which already charges a differential tuition.

Students expressed concern Tuesday that potential engineering majors would attempt to avoid the higher tuition by not declaring the major until very late in their academic careers.

However, according to Steve Cramer, associate dean of academic affairs in the College of Engineering, limits are already in place to prevent the issue.

Since the main reason for the tuition hike is a decrease in state funding, Cramer said the College of Engineering has been forced to cut faculty and administration to save money.

"You have to chop your leg off to feed yourself," Cramer said. "You can only do that for so long."

Faced with a 10-percent drop in the number of faculty, Peercy said the College of Engineering "can't afford to hire all of those back."

However, he added, the college does "want to hire back in areas that we have real bottlenecks."

Andy Severance, vice president of the Triangle Fraternity, a College of Engineering professional society, said the large showing of concerned students sent a message to UW administrators.

"I really think that they were finally challenged," Severance said. "I don't think they were met with this before."

UW senior and mechanical engineering student Phil Mauermann said rumors have been circulating since September that tuition may rise, and added that the discussion was long awaited.

"I was really impressed with the number of questions and some of the preparation a lot of the students had done to come to this meeting," Mauermann said. "I do have some concern that it seems like [the] student vote won't impact the overall decision; it sounds to me like Dean Peercy wasn't really interested. … He seemed to shy away from questions."

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Anonymous (March 21, 2007 @ 5:35am):

The COE brings in more cash than almost any school on campus (grants, etc) except perhaps the med school and yet the UW wants to screw the students who wish to attend the COE? Of course, engineering grads will earn more than most of the other schools as well, so I suppose the UW has to get the mitts on the cash before they start earning it.

I have to wonder if this has anything to do with the fact most COE (not all) grads vote Republican (well, are Conservative, there are very few conservative Republicans any more).

Anonymous (March 21, 2007 @ 2:21pm):

"One way to think about it is engineering is a profession. Since its students are considered professionals upon graduation, Peercy said the undergraduate program should be compared to the UW Law School, which already charges a differential tuition."

Bull sh!t! COE undergraduate students are granted B.S. degrees (pun intended) -- not law degrees, not doctorates, and not masters.
The current trend to for the professional engineer qualification now requires a master's degree, plus on-the-job experience (5 years), and passing the licensing exams.

If the school wants to charge extra for the B.S., they're going to have to grant a dual M.S./B.S.

The problem here is not faculty, it's the facilities and politics.

Anonymous (March 21, 2007 @ 3:49pm):

"Bull sh!t! COE undergraduate students are granted B.S. degrees (pun intended) -- not law degrees, not doctorates, and not masters.
The current trend to for the professional engineer qualification now requires a master's degree, plus on-the-job experience (5 years), and passing the licensing exams.

If the school wants to charge extra for the B.S., they're going to have to grant a dual M.S./B.S.

The problem here is not faculty, it's the facilities and politics. "

This poster provides only 1/3 of the ways of achieving the PE certification (which is NOT a requirement to be employed as an engineer by the way). Check into the Wisconsin Adminstrative Code A-E 4.03 regarding Professional Engineer Registration.

Also, I recommend you think about what they are actually saying. Do you honestly think that it costs the university the same amount of money to graduate an engineer as, oh, say an english or history major? Labs are mighty expensive to run, and we have to take a lot of lab courses. Does it suck that college costs to the students are spiraling upwards? Yea, but the average taxpayer is putting less money towards your education now, so the differance has to come from somewhere.

Anonymous (March 21, 2007 @ 8:39pm):

The idea is sound in principle, but they don't seem to ever give any concrete information. All things end in "we hope to... or we plan to." I don't mind the fee as long as we as a College have some kind of check on it. Call it cynicism, but I for one don't want to be blindly handing over $1400.
That coupled with the relative ease of avoiding this fee by being say a math/physics major and just taking a couple engineering courses before transferring into engineering. I know the policy says once over 50 you are paying, but we are all clever enough to find casual loopholes.
Another thing was his(Peercy's) tendency to sidestep questions which were asked in a negative light with a shake of his head and a, "I've got the numbers for that in my office." Or, "I have done the arithmetic for it, it doesn't matter." But when things like the link of this fee and tuition came up, with that being bad he didn't know, but when it was asked as "don't we also need to provide, within this, for the future growth of this debt?" Suddenly he was saying yea, it will probably grow at a similar rate as the tuition.

Finally, why make it 700 a semester? that discourages potential engineers from taking anything except their core classes. They will be leaving without having had any time to enrich themselves personally. That is horrible. At least charge it based on credits in the college, that way folks from L&S would also be subject to those fees, potentially bringing in more funds.

Anonymous (March 22, 2007 @ 1:14am):

The Herald really screwed this article badly...we were there to ask questions, not in disapproval. Originally I was against it, after the meeting I'm for it. It needs to be done. If you have any complaints, talk with Doyle about it, he's the one who's chopping funding.

Every one of the questions/concerns voiced in the postings above was addressed at the meeting, too bad the people posting apparently weren't there, but now they're complaining.

Do I like handing over more money? No. Do I think it's necessary? Yeah. Wisconsin CoE is practically the only engineering college in the US that doesn't charge a differential. What are they going to do, lay off more of the non-existant support staff?

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