NEWS
Wiley, law professors react to controversy
Looking for a print version?
Simply choose ‘Print’ on your computer and a printer-friendly document will be generated.
Also by Andriy Pazuniak:
- SSFC wittles Wunk Sheek budget (October 21, 2005)
- Cieslewicz, Judge come out on top in spring election (April 9, 2007)
- Music industry serves campus (March 22, 2007)
- UW to RIAA: No way (March 21, 2007)
Related Stories:
- Professor to share story of alleged racist remarks (December 3, 2007)
- Kaplan refutes student claims (March 6, 2007)
- Kaplan revisits Hmong issues (December 6, 2007)
- Law professor speaks out (March 5, 2007)
- Kaplan critic wins Law School prize (May 4, 2007)
by Andriy Pazuniak
Monday, March 12, 2007
Defending free expression in the classroom and criticizing the backlash against University of Wisconsin law professor Leonard Kaplan, Chancellor John Wiley and senior faculty members of the UW Law School weighed in Saturday on the ongoing controversy surrounding the racist comments attributed to Kaplan by some of his students.
In separate statements released this weekend on the official UW news website, Wiley and 49 members of the UW Law School faculty, including Kaplan and Dean Ken Davis, expressed their dissatisfaction with the fallout from the controversy.
"The caricature of this incident as a beleaguered professor's right to free speech and a group of oversensitive students and their 'politically correct' allies is an insulting disservice to all involved," Wiley wrote in his statement. "Similarly it is insulting to say that this is an insensitive professor abusing his position by intimidating defenseless students."
The controversy erupted more than two weeks ago when several Hmong students circulated an e-mail accusing Kaplan of using "racist and inappropriate" remarks during a Feb. 15 lecture. The e-mail, obtained by The Badger Herald, quoted Kaplan as saying, "Hmong men have no talent other than to kill," and "All second-generation Hmong end up in gangs and other criminal activity," among other comments about Hmong men and women.
The controversy reached a peak during a March 1 forum on Hmong culture, where several students and Madison community members lashed out against Kaplan, who chose not to attend.
Kaplan has since sent a letter to Davis explaining his comments, writing, "The statements attributed to me … do not correctly reflect the statements I did make or my purposes in making them."
He went on to write that had he made the "hateful comments wrongly attributed" to him, he would have "repudiated them without hesitation."
"I did not make them," Kaplan wrote.
Calling free expression the "cornerstone of the University of Wisconsin-Madison," Wiley wrote the university would not act in a way to "chill" classroom discussion.
"[I]ntellectual integrity demands that we challenge ideas," Wiley wrote. "In a society where aspects of race and ethnicity are often misunderstood, we will not chill the honest discussion of these often-volatile issues, and others."
In their public statement, released the same day as Wiley's, the senior faculty of the UW Law School expressed their support for Kaplan, as well as their Hmong students, and criticized the backlash directed at the two parties at the center of the controversy.
"We believe in our Hmong students, and trust their sincerity and integrity. We also know our faculty colleague well, and trust in his integrity and good intentions," the statement read. "As senior members of the faculty, we are deeply saddened by the reputational damage done both to our students and to a respected member of our faculty."
Both Wiley and the senior faculty members criticized the "mass media and groups outside [the UW] community" for escalating the controversy.
"In this age of blogging, instant messaging, e-mail and talk radio, it's easy for isolated incidents to morph into international subjects of discussion for people who have limited knowledge of specific events or issues," Wiley wrote. "Although I appreciate legitimate public concerns over free speech and cultural understanding, uninformed accusations do not address real issues."
Neither Wiley nor the students who initially sent out the e-mail accusing Kaplan of making the remarks responded to interview requests with The Badger Herald as of press time.
However, in his statement, Wiley did note that he and Provost Patrick Farrell had met with "some of the Hmong students concerned about Kaplan's class."
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 6:34am):
We as Hmong parents want to Law School to work closely with the Hmong Community to learn about the culture, and Mr Kaplan should be force to apologize to all the Hmong students and non-student ( community )and Nam Dao have to learn his own culture too, those non-hmong if you say it's right please think over and over again, if this is again your culture what can you do?
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 6:54am):
The biggest escalation was from the students not in the course who decided to lead a protest movement on misquotes and mischaracterizations of Kaplan's words. External actors were simply looking for the truth. Sorry, but the law school statement is written by the politically correct allies of the students who seem to like the law school dean's overzealous reaction to this mess and the student's ridiculous overreactions to Kaplan's lecture.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 9:49am):
When will the Hmong Community be forced to apologize to Kaplan? Kaplan is the victim in this situation. Presumption of innocence of the accused and academic freedom seem to be parts of USA culture yet to be explained to, or adopted by, the Hmong Community.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 10:16am):
Typically, apologies follow wrongs. It is not clear Kaplan committed one.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 10:25am):
Correction: The most prominent factor in the escalation of this "controversy" was the media in their pitting a "racist" professor against a group of "oversensitive" students when ultimately it was an ordeal of miscommunication. From the sounds of it Kaplan misrepresented cultural information of an ethnic group that has continuously experienced adversity in assimilating into Wisconsin and in turn a group of students from this group misinterpreted Kaplan's lecture to have malicious intent.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 10:41am):
Failing to show up to one's own public forum after the letter from Dean Davis publicly announces that he is "ready to meet with any student or groups to discuss his remarks" rather shows to me the extent of Prof. Kaplan's lack of integrity. The purpose of the forum wasn't intended to be an informational meeting on the Hmong culture, rather it was intended to be a rebuttal to Kaplan's statements made in his lecture. The professor himself encouraged the alienated students to come to the forum with specific citations supporting their claims that his statements were false. If Kaplan had respect for his students he would have addressed this issue long before it became a horrendous controversy as it has now, without waiting a two week period to consult with his attorney before releasing a public statement.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 10:41am):
Do you mean that Kaplan is a law professor, and he can pick and choose to say anything bad about anyone whether or not the matter in true because of the freedom of speech? But when he is being complained by the affected citizens, you said citizens do not have the freedom of speech?
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 10:48am):
What a minute, this is still cover story news?
- Germain E. Stemme
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 12:06pm):
"said citizens do not have the freedom of speech?"
Of course they have freedom of speech, but it would be nicer if they were telling the truth and could prove what they said, not just spreading rumors. Assuming a person is guilty based on rumors is a lot like assuming things about members of an ethnic group based on rumors.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 12:14pm):
If Kaplan is making a similar comment toward Jewish community, I am sure the outcome will be totally different.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 12:43pm):
This whole thing is stupid. Kaplan didn't say anything racist, but was rather trying to make a point to his class. I think these students owe Kaplan an apology. I'm writing down all the names of these lawyers because I sure as hell am not hiring a bunch of oversensitive nitwits someday.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 12:50pm):
FTA: ..."surrounding the racist comments attributed to Kaplan by some of his students"
Active voice should be used by the reporter here.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 2:12pm):
Let's say that Kaplan is a racist, ok what now? Fire him; become the oppressors of unpopular idea?
- Germain E. Stemme
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 3:22pm):
"If Kaplan is making a similar comment toward Jewish community, I am sure the outcome will be totally different."
Yeah, the Jews would probably have investigated and made sure of their facts BEFORE making accusations. But maybe that's just a stereotype?
Besides, plenty of professors actually do say very nasty things about the Jews and nothing happens to them that is even close to what has happened to Kaplan.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 4:50pm):
I remember when the same sort of protests occurred three years ago after an incident at Ed's, one of the campus' eateries. A group of individuals complained they had been victims of harrassment and physical violence. There were protests and speakers for about two weeks, condemning the said actions of an Ed's supervisor.
However, in the incident three years ago, the "victims" decided not to press charges when they realized that the police and campus authorities had video evidence from the night, clearly showing that their allegations were false. Afterwords, there was no apology and the incident sunk to the back of people's memories.
How many times can you cry wolf before people stop paying attention?
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 5:19pm):
Response to 12:43
Puh-lease! If anything, it's disturbing to know that someone who is as one-sided as yourself would be in a position to hire anyone! I highly doubt you are. Quit lying to yourself. Like any of these students would want to work for someone such as yourself! Get real.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 5:20pm):
Cry wolf? The only wolves here are Kaplan and his followers.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 5:20pm):
I am a hmong too. But if I were them, I may call for a meeting and investigationg to find the truth and evidence first. However, if he had said or wrote that, he lost moral to be a law teacher. But if the accussation was false, those students are responsable: they should correct it and apologize that teacher. This is a real justice and democracy.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 5:21pm):
What has happened to Kaplan? As far as I can see, NOTHING has happened to him.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 5:24pm):
When will you biased morans be forced to apologize to everyone for your ignorance?
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 5:29pm):
UW Madison minority students need to get their head out of the era of identity politics and simultaneously, out of their a#$. UW Madison is the only campus in the country where these 1990's controversies still hold court. It diminishes the intellectual integrity of the school. Ironically, the fallout is always from minority students who grew up in dominant culture environments. The rest of us just want to get a degree and make money. Meanwhile, none of the 'leaders' ever come back to improve real access to education issues or the climate. They use these issues to get token spots at an academic institution that has totally BS Social Justice leanings and little real academic integrity. If you are so offended, just leave and go to Antioch where you can whine all damn day. I hate you people so much, you made my time there miserable -- much more than any redneck who actually cause problems on the streets of Madison. I'm glad the chancellor isn't bowing to your C student ethnic studies butts.
li kiki (March 12, 2007 @ 5:52pm):
Okay, so it's "OK" to make people understand your own point by 'Using an example that has nothing to do with what your talking about?' I'm greatly confused here, whether he was racist or not racist about his remarks, he should of known better than to say something like what he said. SO ARE SOME OF YOU TRYING TO SAY ITS OKAY TO TALK ABOUT GAY PEOPLE, BLACK, MEXICANS ETCS. JUST SO PEOPLE WILL GET YOUR POINT? DO YOU REALLY IN GENERAL HAVE TO USE A GROUP OF PEOPLE JUST SO PEOPLE WILL GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT?
I MEAN, HE COULD OF USE APPLES AND ORANGES BUT YET HE CHOOSE TO BE NAMING AND POINTING FINGERS AT PEOPLE. HOW WILL IT MAKE YOU FEEL IF HE JUST NOT SAY "WHITE", BUT SAID CAUCASION, RUSSIANS, GERMANS, FRENCH OR THE JEWS? I MEAN, HONESTLY THERE ARE NOT A LOT OF CAUCASIONS OUT THERE, EVERYBODY IS MIX WITH SOMETHING AND I'M SURE NOT EVERYBODY IS ALL BAD WITHIN A GROUP OF THEIR OWN ETHNICS RIGHT???
NOT ALL ASIANS ARE CHINESE? NOT ALL BLACKS ARE THIEVES? NOT ALL MEXICANS ARE ILLEGAL? SO..DID EVERYONE GET MY POINT YET?
(SO DID SOMEONE AS SMART AS PROF. KAPLAN HAD TO USE SOMETHING(IGNORANT) LIKE HE DID TO MAKE HIS POINT CLEAR?)
NOW THINK AGAIN MY FELLOW(law) STUDENTS, DON'T FOLLOW IN FOOT STEP THAT IS GOING TO LAND YOURSELF IN THE HOT SEAT!
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 6:41pm):
"DON'T FOLLOW IN FOOT STEP THAT IS GOING TO LAND YOURSELF IN THE HOT SEAT!"
Yup, don't say a damn thing about anyone or anything. NOT ONE WORD I TELL YOU!!!!
Well, actually you say whatever you want about whites. And Jews. And black Republicans.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 6:55pm):
Nice...all caps certainly makes your point valid. I'll have to remember that.
And no, I don't get the your point yet. How is "All asians are chinese" analogous to "All blacks are thieves?"
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 9:36pm):
PEOPLE FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THERE WERE MORE THEN TEN STUDENTS IN MR. KAPLAN'S CLASS DAY WHEN HE LECTURED, I WONDER IF KAPLAN'S STATEMENTS WERE FALSE HOW COME THOSE STUDENTS DID NOT DEFENDED THE TEACHER, AND THERE WERE ONLY TWO STUDENTS WHO SAID THEY FEELED IT'S NOT RACIST AND THESE TWO STUDENTS ONE IS VIETNAMESE ,THE OTHER ONE IS MEXICAN WHO KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT THE HMONG. AND I WONDERED HOW COME THEY DIDN'T DEFEND THE TEACHER BY SAYING HE DIDN'T THOSE WORDS OR PUT HIS STATEMENTS AS THE HMONG STUDENTS CLAIMED. THIS MAKES ME WONDER?...IF WE WANT THE TRUTH AND WE RESPECT EACHOTHER AS A COMMUNITY,UWMADISON SCHOOL SHOULD SEEK THE TRUTH FROM THOSE STUDENTS WHO WERE IN CLASS THAT DAY, AND FIND OUT EXACTLY WHAT KAPLAN SAID. I THINK UWMADISON SHOULD HAVE ABETTER WAY OF HANDLING THIS PROBLEMS INSTEAD OF BUYING EVERYONE'S VERSION BASED ON WHATEVER THEY SAID.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 10:12pm):
Is the price of academic freedom and rights, or freedom of speech worth the creatiion of division, separtion, hate, anger, bad press, bad repuation for the university, frustration, and pain for students, faculty and the community? If it is, then it is self-defeating....
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 10:16pm):
Is the price of academic freedom and rights, or freedom of speech worth the creatiion of division, separtion, hate, anger, bad press, bad repuation for the university, frustration, and pain for students, faculty and the community? If it is, then it is self-defeating....
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 10:18pm):
If what Kaplan has been alleged with is true, there is no "intellectual integrity" in that....thus, "academic freedom and rights" should not be applied to this case.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 10:25pm):
The class room "doesn't have to be chilled" if it is positive and helps to foster progress. Any free speech that is negative and doesn't help to foster progress need not be uttered...
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 10:41pm):
If Kaplan was "sensitive" then he, the law school and the univeristy would not be in this negative fallout....
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 10:47pm):
Clearly the law students were defenseless that is why they are victims in this tragedy. It seems that it was the law school who closed the doors on the students in the beginning when they were searching for help, but now it seems that may be the university is too. All under freedom of expression.... We should think about this? Are we moving forward or backward? It seems we are moving backward.
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 10:48pm):
If the discussion was "honest" we would not be in this volatile situation?
Anonymous (March 12, 2007 @ 11:14pm):
With all due respect to everyone who tried to enlighten this story, but the true actor is not doing or saying anything. such behavior should say alot about his intention or respect for the targeted community. What on earth is free speech when it hurts, insults or otherwise degrades someone? This is the kind of freedom that invites hatred and retaliation. I am an american-educated first generation Hmong. If I have said something with a good intention or nonmalacious, I would come out and explain what I said or meant to say. We know anyone of us can slip or be misquoted by "oversensitive students", which is one more reason why one should come out and explain his comments. John Keryy did. I, for one, always give someone the benefit of the doubt until he or she refuses to answer or explain one's intention...then we should assume one's guilty. Su V. Sactown, Ca....
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 6:08am):
whoever not agree with us as Hmong, forget about it, let (Hmong Love Hmong) first, lets get together we'll go from point A to point Z to find out the true of Mr Kaplan, for those of you that not hmong keep ur mouth shut up and keep learning those Racist from Mr Kaplan
Thank you America for Freedom of Speech
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 9:11am):
PLEASE!!! If you're not HMONG, you have NO COMMENT. Rather he said it or not, he made some students felt insulted. He should just apologize. What is so hard about saying "I'm sorry if you felt insulted, but what I was trying to say was...." If Kaplan can't even come to his own conclusion about saying sorry, he is quilty.
If he had us the word BLACK instead of HMONG, I bet you, we'll have PRIME TIME and DATELINE here in Madison all over the campus.
The Hmong should do a protest and stick together, we'll be heard.
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 10:41am):
Germain E. Stemme, Kaplan did not attend the meeting, and you said he is right, freedom of speech. It seems to me you are racist yourself like James Nicoles. You are a troublemaker, you went to war with Vietnam and you bring Hmong here, you went to Iraq and you will bring refugees to here, you allow communist to be alive like a snake, like North Korea, Laos, Vietnam, Russia, Cuba and these countries will go after you. You stupid, you let your past, present and future to continue make war around the globe, and that's muslim hate you, america and don't say that you will not hire oversentive to work, but you will have no place to live and to run like the refugees. The communists will go after you. Wake up man, china is getting bigger and bigger, russia is against you, america and you dead-end. Go ahead to hate the Hmong, the refugees, but you don't do anything to stop your stupi government to tell on earth to run their life. What if i tell people that vietnamese eat dog, all whites are wealthy, and smart, black are criminal, hmong know how to kill, rape and being gangster. alot of people will not agree. This is what I am talking about. New immigrant. you old immigrant, no one belong here, except the native americans.
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 10:41am):
I would like to see the university's definition of academic freedom and rights, or freedom of speech? Is there a limit to freedom of speech? Should we limit a person's freedom of speech if it inaccurately describes not just one or a few Hmong people, but a whole group? Is this "progress" under the name of academic freedom in this case? Is there "intellectual integrity" or "truth" in this? I think not. Even if there was no malicious intent on Kaplan's part, he should still be discipline for his mistakes...for inciting and infuriating the Hmong students with inappropriate and inaccurate teachings about the Hmong as a whole.... The Hmong are not subjects that you can just used for teaching purposes. The Hmong are human beings too.
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 10:51am):
If we allow for academic freedom and rights, or freedom of speech, then it should be ok for those offended to use "any language" to let Kaplan know how they feel about this whole ordeal, "without being label hate or harassment..." Remember that both sides must be given equal footing under the law if you want to use academic freedom and rights as a shield. You can't say it was "ok" for Kaplan to teach and say what has been alleged, but "limit and confine" the law student's concerns as being overtly sensitive and naive. If so, you would have injustice, inequality and unequal footing under the law... But all this is not addressing the root cause or root problem, which is kaplan's lecture, or what came out of his mouth...
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 10:53am):
Fee expression is the cause and the backlash is the effect. Why is it so hard for everyone to understand. Do we argue and fight over the effect, or should we be focusing on the cause?
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 10:54am):
Focus on the root problem people, not the outcome or effect....
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 10:59am):
Wiley and the senior faculty members should not critize the mass media and groups outside [the UW] because "without the mass media and groups outside [community], there would be massive baises...no checks and balance." How come they can't understand this simple rule of thumb?
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 11:02am):
Kaplan shouldn't be complaining about 'hateful comments wrongly attributed' to him. These all come under academic freedom and rights, or freedom of speech....Where is his empathy? What about the "hurtful comments that he wrongfully attributed" to the law students about the Hmong people?
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 11:08am):
The unviersity shouldn't be defending Kaplan under acamedic freedom and rights, then criticize the mass media and people or groups outside of the UW for their opinions or freedom of speech... Instead, they should be encouraging people to vent their anger, frustration and anxiety "verbally" without limit becuase it is protected under freedom of speech too....
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 11:17am):
The law school with all its lawyers and the university need not worry about acamedic freedom and rights, or freedom of expression because no government agency is breathing on their necks (yet), just ordinary citizens with concerns for justice, equality and a little respect and truth.
If people started creating disruptions and violence then what good is freedom of expression? Freedom of expression must serve a meaninful and positive purpose and outcome, otherwise there is no need to be defending it...
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 11:21am):
Here is an email quote:
what do you want from me? U want to pick up a fight/arguement w/me...well,
u got my attention....I am sick you playing around w/my head.....U want
me...U got me....You name the Place and the time......Let's settle this for
once and all. I have been patient and take all your shits long enough.
I AM WAITING FOR YOU REPLY
Hopefully the university will step its leadership and resolve this issue...before emotions esclate and we have a crisis...
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 12:22pm):
"The Killing Fields" of the state of Wisconsin have taken a toll on the behavior of the people. Lets lash out the anger on deers, or on a target range, and not on "any" group of people. Get the truth and resolve the issue at UW in a civilized way!
P.S. Lets coordinate a mixed group of ethnics from the U.W. into a shooting range! Have fun and laugh together there!
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 1:52pm):
There is always a bad apple in every apple tree. In this case, Kaplan should be picked and tossed away to ensure that the University will not get degraded due to his insensitive remarks. Being educated and ranked doesn't necessarily make one morally right or racially knowledgeable. Kaplan was not sensitive to his students and did not offer an apology. It is simple to say I'm sorry, my intentions were not to offend anyone. Instead he chose to defend his words and refuse to acknowledge how it had affected his students. I believe Kaplan may stirr up this sensitive race issue to see if the law students will have any guts to go against him. Obviously they did, so his defense is to fight back. The UW-Madison should rally the school and make the dean fix this error because I would not attend a racist institution knowing that they hate me because I am a minority. To increase the benefit of the student at that school, I propose for you all to really investigate and find out the truth or atleast try and don't ignore this issue until it is solved!
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 4:03pm):
I hope you didn't mean that you want to round up a group of ethnic people and shoot at them, because that would include whites as well. Unless of course, whites don't have an ethnicity (meaning no identity?). By the way, there is no such thing as "deers", deer is the singular as well as plural form. Obviously you don't know your own language. What's sad is it's probably the only language you know, unlike many of the ethnic minorities here on campus who are fluent in at least two languages.
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 5:01pm):
Kaplan-
You have been disgraced to our Jewish Community, especially for your mom, for running big mouth on other people.
Our Jewish are good people and we want it that way.
Please do your part and apologize to your students.
Thank you,
An Angry Jewish Leader!
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 5:09pm):
After reading this article-
I felt that Chancellor Wiley didn't take his leadership on the issue. He let it slide and now it is over. Don't blame on the Media either. I think the Badger Herald and other media were doing their job to inform the public about the issue. I hope our legislatures and senators are reading this. The university is using public funding. We have every right to hear our concerns.
Parent
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 7:05pm):
For the person who says the law students are just spreading rumors. Well, here is my freedom of speech in action... What the three law studetns have said can and should be considered credible and as evidence because they were in the room with Kaplan. However, what Kaplan put out is not evidence because it is only his own statement, which has not been validated by other students as true. This is how logic and reasion is suppose to work in law....
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 8:15pm):
I don't think John Wiley has much credibility here. His own total incomptence with the Paul Barrows case shows Wiley is a complete dolt with very poor judgment and no leadership skils at all.
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 10:08pm):
I totally agree with the parent's comment. I hope our legislatures and senators are listening and looking into this story. Because of the public funding that the Law School and University receives, I hope they will say something about this so that there is real justice and equality under the law....
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 10:12pm):
If the 49 senior faculty at the law school, which included Kaplan, "...are proud that [their] students are willing to challenge [them] and that [they] as [the students'] faculty are willing to engage these issues..." why isn't Kaplan initiating the dialouge face to face with the law students, the Hmong peopel, and apologizing to them about his mistake, ignorance, or carelessness?
Anonymous (March 13, 2007 @ 10:18pm):
Chancellor Wiley's statement that "...we have more work to do in briding cultural gaps and sustaining a safe and welcoming environment for everyone." Well, I just want to say that any cultural gap will require a two way communication. But right now it seems that the kaplan isn't willing to talk... and the law school, including the universitya also isn't pushing him to talk either for the sake of academic freedom...? So I wonder how we're going to bridge the cultrual gap? In addition, kaplan and the law school will have to change first in order to make it a safe and welcoming envirionment for everyone....
Schwa Yang (March 14, 2007 @ 6:02pm):
This has been the best educational experience for me. However, many of these arguments are repetition of what has already been argued about. In the nature of men, neither side will ever win by arguing. A judge needs to be appointed to decide who wins and who loses in this case. So, let's drop it and move on, guys.
UW-Madison Hmong students need to accept some responsibilities as well and apologize to the public for their careless action.
S.Yang
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 10:26am):
There should be no dialogue until kaplan takes responbility and apologizes to the hmong law students, hmong people, university and community for being careless and reckless....remember that kaplan is the cause and all these things are the effect....the massi media is just helping to sort out the truth, even if it causes damage to kaplan, the law students, the hmong people, the law school and the university.
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 11:36am):
Mr. Kaplan is a professor. Does he want to lose his job?? Why is he talking about other groups of people ?? He should be teaching or saying good things about other cultures.We don't think that he is a professor yet. If all the hmong people are that bad then why don't he tell the president to send them back to their own country.
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 3:40pm):
According to the Law School statement, signed by 49 senior faculty, "As lawyers, we live in a world of words. Words can wound, but now it is time to show that they can also heal." I agree Kaplan's words wounded the Hmong law students and Hmong people. Per my freedom of speech, the reason there is no true justice, just temporary justice, is precisely because lawyers only live in a world of words, which can be twisted and turned to fit their needs, such as "academic freedom and rights..." And in order for there to be true healing lawyers, especially Kaplan needs to use words like "I'm sorry if I offended you Hmong law students or Hmong people. I was ignorant and careless when I spoke about you Hmong people and your culture." These kinds of words have real "intellectual integrity" in them versus "...(I)didn't say them (racial slurs) but I understand why (I) was misunderstood..." I don't know why it is so hard to say such a simple few words. These few words could solve this whole issue in the blink of an eye...But I guess there is too much pride.
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 3:43pm):
If Kaplan doesn't know that he has wronged a whole group of people (the Hmong) with his words (freedom of speech), then clearly he doesn't know the diference between right and wrong. Thus,he shouldn't be teaching law. This is the reason why people are just calling him Kaplan now, not Professor Kaplan....
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 3:49pm):
We demand to know the specific cases where Kaplan got his information from that gave him the confidence to teach his law class about the Hmong the way he did? What are your citations or evidences regarding the Hmong? If he can't produce these citations then he is just bluffing....
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 3:53pm):
I agree with 8:15PM.
The reputation of the law school and this university will be damaged for a long time, may be forever because of the way this kaplan incident has been handled by Dean Davis of the law school and Chancellor Wiley. Well done...
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 3:59pm):
For you other minorities, including women,watch out at UW-Madison racial slurs like this could happen to you too. When it does be prepare to suck it in because of academic freedom and rights.... If you don't want to see this happen to you, then help demand that kaplan apologize also. An apology doesn't need to be protected by academic freedom and rights. Besides racial slurs do not increase our knowledge or improve human relationships, so it doesn't need to be tolerated....
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 4:01pm):
There is no "intellectual integrity" in racial slurs....I can't understand why you people at the university don't understand this.
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 4:04pm):
Regarding the alleged racial slurs that Kaplan made, here is what Chancellor Wiley had to say, "...I believe discussion-while sometimes uncomfortable-is part of what a strong university should offer and tolerate." What do you think?
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 4:46pm):
Is there a double standard here? When Kaplan's alleged racial slurs are being protected under academic freedom or freedom of speech, Chancellor Wiley said (regarding the Hmong students that he and Provost Patrick Farrell met with) "They have a sophisticated understanding of the free speech issue at play in this case." It is as if what the Hmong law students said or is able to understand should not fall under the same academic freedom that kaplan is allowed. What does sophisticated understanding really mean?
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 4:56pm):
Chancellor Wiley said in the guest column of the Wisconsin State Journal on March 10th "Engagement, not accusation, is the only way to overcome differences." I would like to say that if Kaplan had engaged the law students correctly instead of accusing or referring to the Hmong people the way he did, then none of this would have occurred. For this reason Chancellor Wiley should be speaking to Kaplan about engagement not the law students.
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 5:05pm):
Chancellor Wiley wrote in the guest column on March 10th of the WI State Journal, "There is no attempt by anyone, specifically the students, to limit Kaplan's free speech rights or his academic freedom to choose his own teaching techniques." What good are free speech rights or academic freedom if they hurt, offend, demeans, or falsely labelled a group of people? There should be decency in the classroom. There should be truthful teaching in the classroom. There is no need to curb his academic freedom, all he has to say is "I'm sorry if I offended the Hmong people by my teachings."
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 5:15pm):
Because Kaplan is a Jewish descendant, he should set a good example for the rest of the people, including the university. I say this because the Jewish were God's chosen people. For this alone above all else, Kaplan should apologize to the Hmong people if he didn't mean what he taught or if the law students misunderstood him. Otherwise, we can infer that he believed what he has been alleged with, for saying those racial slurs against the Hmong. We can infer that he believed what he taught to be true as claimed by the law students. I'm sorry, but I'm only exercising my freedom of speech. I believe Jesus said, if someone hit you, turn the other cheek and let him hit it again. I'm sorry again, maybe Kaplan doesn't beilieve in Jesus who was a Jew? My ignorance.... See how easy it is to say I'm sorry.
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 5:29pm):
Here is a good example of people who teach at the university of wi-madison who can't even understand cause and effect. No wonder we have no peace in this world.
Francis Schrag: Some shine, others don't in Hmong-prof dispute
A letter to the editor of the capital times.
Dear Editor: I've followed the story of Professor Leonard Kaplan in the press since it broke, attended the forum at the Law School, and now have read his own statement. I've learned five lessons.
1. Despite their evident distress, the Hmong students displayed an admirable ability to rally supporters and "get their story out." In other words, within a generation, the Hmong have learned how to be effective American citizens.
2. The other minority student representatives who spoke at the forum -- Latino, Asian-American, and Jewish -- exhibited an admirable and very American inclination to side with those they perceived to be the underdogs.
3. On the less admirable side, of the speakers who were not in Professor Kaplan's class that fateful day, none appeared to have internalized what I assumed was lesson one in American law: Wrongdoers are presumed innocent until proven otherwise, and judgment is withheld until one is sure of one's facts. Of course, with the Law School dean as role model, perhaps these students should be excused. Only one forum speaker, an African-American woman -- without legal training, to my knowledge -- understood this basic premise.
4. I learned that investigative reporting is a foreign concept at The Capital Times. There appeared to be no effort, for instance, to track down non-Asian students in Professor Kaplan's class to get their take on the incident, or to see whether there was any history of Kaplan's offending minority students.
5. Finally, after reading Professor Kaplan's own statement, I learned that here was the same friend I'd had for well over 30 years -- a teacher with an intellectually ambitious agenda, a persistent advocate for the less powerful in our society, and one who, like all of us profs, occasionally misspeaks and misjudges the impact of his remarks on his students.
Francis Schrag, UW professor emeritus of educational policy studies and philosophy, Madison
Published: March 9, 2007
I'm sorry but you need to do better as a professor. Professor Schrag you need to relearn your basics. The cause is Kaplan for doing the speaking (racial slurs), while the students' reactions and the media circus are only the reactions or effects. So how do we solve this problem? Do we keep talking about the effect or the fallout, or do we address the root cause?
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 5:46pm):
I would like to know how Professor Schrag addresses the students when he or she "occassionally misspeaks or misjudges the impact of his remarks on his students"? If you can apologize then you are different from Kaplan. But if you can't apologize then you are no different than Kaplan. This is my freedom of speech...
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 5:51pm):
Regarding Professor Schrag's statement "In other words, within a generation, the Hmong have learned how to be effective American citizens." Yes, we are proud of this. But I would like to ask the professor what he or she does when he or she has "evident distress"? Doesn't your negative energy get vented somehow also?
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 5:54pm):
Regarding Professor Schrag's characterization of the Hmong law students as "the underdogs," they should be proud of this label because in the end the underdogs usually win.
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 5:57pm):
I dont get it. John Wiley and Kaplan are saying that it is unfair the way the media and other outside forces have protray them. At least they are now beginning to understand why the Hmong are so upset. The media and other outside forces can protray them anyway they want to because of free speech but as a law professor in the classroom and a person of authority does not give you complete authority to say what you want. They are hypocrital.
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 6:00pm):
I like what Professor Schrag has to say "lesson on in American law: Wrongdoers are presumed innocent until proven otherwise, and judgment is withheld until one is sure of one's facts.Of course, with the Law School dean as role model, perhaps these students should be excused. Only one forum speaker, an African-American woman-without legal training, to my knowledge-understood this basic premise." Well, Professor Schrag, let me say that your accusation of the hmong law students' accusation of Kaplan, they too have the right to be assumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. So make sure you too know your facts that what the law students have to say is totally false before passing judgment on them. I agree with you that the dean of the law school was a bad role model....
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 6:03pm):
I also agree with Professor Schrag that the news media is also at fault for not probing and doing their jobs better. And i quote "...investigative reporting is a foreign concept at The Capital Times (also includig The Badger Herald, The Milwaukee Sentinel,and The WI State Journal) . There appeared to be no effort, for instance, to track down non-Asian students in Professor Kaplan's class to get their take on the incident..."
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 6:09pm):
Why do I get the impression that a single individual (with limited knowledge of the situation and a shaky grasp of the English language) posted 75% of all the comments here?
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 6:17pm):
I agree with 4:04 pm. Should we tolerate uncomfortable discussions as Chancellor Wiley said? I thought school classroom was suppose to be safe, enriching and positive!
Anonymous (March 15, 2007 @ 8:17pm):
Regarding "lesson one in American law: Wrongdoers are presumed innocent until proven otherwise, and judgment is withheld until one is sure of one's facts." I would say Professor Schrag, you too need to not pass judgment on the hmong law students for alleging Kaplan either until you too know the facts that what they said were not the truth. The pendulum swings both ways. But remember that it was kaplan's allegation that the hmong had no talent other than to kill. So in this regard, he is the one who has the burden of proof that this is true beyond a reasonable doubt.
Anonymous (March 16, 2007 @ 9:09am):
For 6:09 PM
When everyone searches for the same truth, then it may appear that one individual is writing everything. Getting at the truth doesn't require english as the norm. Regardless, this is all freedom of speech or academic freedom...
Anonymous (March 16, 2007 @ 10:29am):
Germain E. Stemme
You see, cause and effect. America creates war and tell people to run their life in our way that's why you continue having people come to US. You will see more and more people coming to this land and you will finally shut your own mouth. In the 60s, you attacked the Black and attacked, but now 2007 you shut your mouth. It will also happen to you since you continue doing and creating war all over the world then you will bring more people here. When you first went to their countries, you loved them and asked for their help. Now you hate them and said they are stupid. That's too bad, you are the starter, creator, troublemaker and you said to them. But actually you should say this to yourself. Because you the troublemaker yourself. Wake up man. You don't like, it is too late. That's nothing you cannot do. But take action and get in touch with your representative and do REAL ACTION, not to tell countries to run their life. Let them run themselves in the way their think it is right for them. For me I love America, 99% people of this countries (White people) are nice and with christian heart that's why I am here with you. But you create problem, use racial slurs and make America miserable. We have enought problem with Iraq now and we hate to see our troops being killed daily. Don't just attack people here, you are smart why be a Soldier yourself and fight for this country? I am qualified to be here and it doens't make I am smart or stupid. I am more qualified then you since I fight for the Vietnam war and I prevented American soldiers in South Vietnam and I rescued American pilots. What have you done? show me so I can respect you. But actually, you are NOT a soldier and you haven't fought any war, just a troublemaker PEIROD. IF YOU USED TO BE A SOLDIER OR YOU ARE A SOLDIER NOW OR YOU HAVE A RELATIVE, UNCLE, SIBLING WHO SERVE THE ARMY THEN YOU WILL RESPECT ME AND APPRECIATE ME. But you are JUST a troublemaker, racist, troublemake to AMERICA. This is freedom of speech.
Anonymous (March 16, 2007 @ 11:02am):
"Getting at the truth doesn't require English as the norm"
I am not at all sure what this statement is supposed to mean, but it does strike me that the ability to understand and speak English with delicate nuance and sophistication is at the heart of this whole dispute.
Anonymous (March 16, 2007 @ 11:35am):
Capital Times considered professor Kaplan a brilliant legal scholar.
http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/index.php?ntid=124026&ntpid=0
I agree with everything they said except the comment that he's a brilliant legal scholar. If you consider professor Kaplan a brilliant legal scholar, I no longer understand the definition of brilliant and scholar. Professor Kaplan made President Bush looks like Einstein when it comes to common sense.
It's called freedom of speech. If you are Hmong and you don't like his philosophy, stay away from his classes. If you are Hmong and you still enroll in his class, tough luck.
Let it go and move on. You can't teach an old dog new tricks.
Anonymous (March 16, 2007 @ 12:33pm):
11:35
I would like to assume you base your position on having read Kaplan's published scholarship (and not simply by believing the accusations of people who were not even in his class). But I know that is not the case.
11:29
I assume you are purposefully using such poor grammar and syntax in order to make everyone who holds the positions you are trying to express look bad. Very mean. Very, very mean.
Anonymous (March 16, 2007 @ 8:59pm):
To Mr. Dao, a Vietnamese student who said Kaplan's statement does not a racial one. I would like to reply: What if I say all Vietnamese eat dog, all white are smart and wealthy, all black are criminals, all mexicans are illegal workers, all hmong men know how to kill, rape and commit crime. Do you agree? For me, I won't agree, since i saw some of white people are on public assistance, living in public housing, raising hand for a free ride on the road, more white commit crime than black, not all mexicans are illegal workers, not all vietnamese eat dog, not all hmong are killer, rapist and murder. When Kaplan said all hmong, this is totally wrong and that is exactly what translates into racial issue. If he uses a case by case situation, or by name not by ethnicity, then, there would be no problem and I don't have to write this note to you all. TO KAPLAN, next time if you want to talk about hmong, don't use all or don't use community or don't use the word "Hmong", PLEASE USE INDIVIDUAL CASE BY CASE TO AVOID TROUBLE. There are too many good people in each race, BUT NOT ALL. So don't apply a case to the whole commmunity, ethnic or race. Otherwise, Kaplan you are racist yourself and you FORGEOT about Hitler KILLED JEWS and also you FORGOT about Jesus. Or maybe you are not Jew, or you don't believe in Christ. Lastly, Do you eat dog, Dao?
Anonymous (March 18, 2007 @ 8:20am):
Tou Xiong
I have read most of these comments and I have learned some every good points here.
I think that we as human being and sometime,we make mistate. we are not a single person so we do not feel the same way, but we need to learn how to appologize for our own mistate and also learn how to forgive other. NO one will win unless both parties are happy.
Anonymous (March 18, 2007 @ 10:58am):
8:59 - Your comments are a fitting summary to the whole affair.
Anonymous (March 21, 2007 @ 9:58pm):
I think all this has been misinterpreted.
It's time to just let this go. It's going to be an on-going 'who's right and who's wrong' and whatnot.
Nothing's going to get settle if pride keeps getting in the way. Vicious attacks will not solve incidents like this. Everyone needs to come to an understanding.
Mistakes happens all the time.
The professor could mistakenly said it the wrong way but he probably didn't mean it that way and the students probably mistook Professor Kaplan's remarks. It's all a big misunderstanding.
I'm sure that the word "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend any of the Hmong nor was I implying it that way...blah blah..." would help settle this.
The students as well should apologize to the Professor as well. It's no one's fault but a big misunderstanding.
Anonymous (March 29, 2007 @ 10:10pm):
More leadership is need here. Why so little action from Bascom Hall? They need to get involved and fix this mess.
Anonymous (April 9, 2007 @ 10:03pm):
There is no leadership because Wiley so screwed up the Barrows case that he cannot handle delicate racially-tinged matters like the Kaplan mess. Therefore, a new chancellor must be hired immediately.
Anonymous (April 26, 2007 @ 9:55pm):
Right. Wiley was simply an awful choice to lead UW-Madison, as he has no leadership abilities at all. He botched the Barrows/Hong conflict so severely that he cannot handle any racially oriented problems here. He then went before the legislature and told them that UW-Madison admissions include affirmative action but no quotas. They didn't buy this theory, of course, so it only ended up weakening Wiley even further. So, by the time the Kaplan mess erupted, and real leadership was needed from Bascom, Wiley just sat there the way Ted Kennedy did during the Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill fiasco. Wiley is way in over his head as chancellor, and probably was from day one. Replace him now.
Anonymous (October 18, 2007 @ 8:25pm):
okay, okay everyone's a victim here, just apologize and get it over with, gosh everyone makes mistakes in their life time.
Anonymous (December 1, 2007 @ 10:53pm):
It seems that the Hmong students these days are looking for anything to lash out at anyone to call them racists or to say that they're targeting a specific group. Sometimes, they have to look past the comment and actually examine to see whether the comment was really meant to target and put down your group. I'm not white but I'm actually indeed Hmong. I'm sure the professor had good intentions in using us minorities as an example as well. Since I've been in the same previous situation before, we as minorities tend to jump to conclusions whenever we hear a comment that has us as examples.
Add a comment
We welcome your thoughts, but please keep your feedback thoughtful, on-topic and respectful. Offensive language, personal attacks, or irrelevant comments may be deleted.
Login...
Not registered? Sign up now.
It's quick, free, and the email address you provide will not be sold or solicited.
