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Students lambaste professor
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Also by Nick Penzenstadler:
- For whom the bell tolls (November 29, 2007)
- New apartments for West Wash? (November 20, 2007)
- One-and-out: Kumar will not seek 2nd term on Dane County Board (November 15, 2007)
- Displaced Carroll residents call university, bookstore helpful (November 13, 2007)
- Carroll Street fire displaces students (November 12, 2007)
Related Stories:
- Kaplan refutes student claims (March 6, 2007)
- Professor to share story of alleged racist remarks (December 3, 2007)
- Professor under fire for remarks (February 23, 2007)
- Wiley, law professors react to controversy (March 12, 2007)
- Kaplan critic wins Law School prize (May 4, 2007)
by Nick Penzenstadler
Friday, March 2, 2007
An emotionally charged group of hundreds of students, faculty and community members met Thursday night to address a University of Wisconsin professor's statements about the Hmong community.
Law professor Leonard Kaplan made several statements during his Feb. 15 class that offended a group of students, who were coined the "Magnificent Seven" by those in attendance at the forum.
According to an e-mail sent to several law and Hmong students, Kaplan spoke for 10 minutes using "racist and inappropriate" remarks, allegedly saying, "Hmong men have no talent other than to kill," and "all second-generation Hmong end up in gangs and other criminal activity," among other comments.
Jane Hamilton-Merritt, an author and Nobel Peace Prize nominee known for her writings on Hmong culture, flew in from Connecticut for the forum.
Originally aimed at addressing cultural acceptance of Hmong people, the discussion shifted focus almost entirely to Kaplan's controversial comments.
"No matter what we all think is offensive, we're not going to leave here with anyone 'winning,'" said UW law student Kashia Moua, who was in Kaplan's lecture. "I think the reality is the remarks, … if you agree or not, have been very damaging to the particular students and an entire population."
Kaplan did not attend the forum himself, although UW law professor Jane Larson read a statement in his absence.
With the initial goal of the meeting to be generally about Hmong cultural ignorance, Larson said Kaplan felt being in the room himself would change the nature of the discussion.
"He fears that his presence would shift the focus of the discussion to what happened in his class, which would seriously detract from the broader educational function that this can serve," Larson said on Kaplan's behalf.
Several students expressed their displeasure with Kaplan at the meeting and the fact that he chose not to attend.
UW undergraduate James Chang said he regretted Kaplan did not take the opportunity to explain his comments.
"We fully support all research with the marketplace of ideas, but we believe [what Kaplan said] extends far beyond the bounds of academic freedom," Chang said. "We respectfully request a public repeal and apology, and a (diversity) committee dedicated to faculty and staff."
Chang then turned to Law School Dean Ken Davis personally, breaking the meeting's procedural rules, before being cut off by the forum's moderator.
Davis told the large crowd he hopes to continue the education of his faculty and staff.
"Sometimes we stumble, but we try to learn and try to move forward," Davis said. "Within the Law School community, this will not be the end to learn about the wonderful community within our state."
Law student Nishith Patel said he was hoping for more of an open forum where both sides were represented, adding several students may plan a "counter-forum." He said he thinks Kaplan's comments were conveyed as "bold and obviously untrue" and should be a part of the law education process.
"Every law professor offends their students — that's their style," Patel said. "The last thing I'd want is to have professors treading on thin ice because they're afraid of offending people."
Several students from Kaplan's class gave their accounts of the incident in question.
Kanha Vuong, who was in class when Kaplan made his comments about the Hmong community, said she was outraged and upset she didn't immediately respond to the comments in class.
"When I heard these comments, I was disturbed, shocked and angry at Kaplan and at myself for not speaking up, and at my classmates," Vuong said.
Moua, who was in Kaplan's class and first circulated mass e-mails to gather support, said she has been inundated with e-mails from both hate and support mail from around the country.
Mai Der Yang, who is in the class but did not attend lecture Feb. 15, met with Kaplan regarding the comments.
"We all genuinely believe that he is sorry we are hurt," Yang said. "What came as a shock, an injury and an insult was the fact he believed his statements to be true. He was not willing to repeal his statements."
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 3:21am):
yee-hay! go nick
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 4:40am):
And the Law School still have the gall to keep this web page up...
http://law.wisc.edu/prospective/wherediversityworks.htm
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 7:08am):
At the forum it became clear that the students had one interpretation of what was said in the initial class and Kaplan had another. The fact that Kaplan suggested to the students that he disprove his argument with evidence and citation implies he was in fact talking not about racist Hmong stereotypes but rather Hmong cultural practices that have been used in court cases. I am glad Kaplan has not conceded to the student demands and apologized for beliefs attributed to him that he obviously does not hold. This was a misunderstanding and the students at the forum failed to even consider that they had misinterpreted Kaplan's statements.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 7:33am):
What ever happened to "Sticks and stones can break my bones but word can never hurt me"?
Aren't the Hmong here becasue they would be killed in their native land?
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 7:41am):
Education about the Hmong is good but I remain convinced after the forum last night that Kaplan was severely misinterpreted and that he should not apologize for the remarks Moua attributed to him in her email. More diversity training without consideration of the effect of diversity commitments on academic freedom is a bad idea. Such training combined with the law school dean's failure to consider academic freedom would greatly reduce the diversity of opinion in the law school (though I suspect many in the law school would not care too much about such a decline in diversity of opinion).
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 7:52am):
UW Law: What Up? We All Say Shit Like That!
Law student Nishith Patel said he was hoping for more of an open forum where both sides were represented, adding several students may plan a "counter-forum." He said he thinks Kaplan's comments were conveyed as "bold and obviously untrue" and should be a part of the law education process.
"Every law professor offends their students -- that's their style," Patel said.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 7:53am):
UW Law: What Up? We All Say Things Like That!
Law student Nishith Patel said he was hoping for more of an open forum where both sides were represented, adding several students may plan a "counter-forum." He said he thinks Kaplan's comments were conveyed as "bold and obviously untrue" and should be a part of the law education process.
"Every law professor offends their students -- that's their style," Patel said.
Dumb Move. Let the Professor Speak.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 8:09am):
A counter-forum is an awesome idea. Many of us would love to attend such an event given the discussion last night left most of the important issues off the table. Kaplan was smart not to attend the forum last night because for him it would have been a no-win situation in that environment.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 9:24am):
Um they were coined the "Magnificient Seven?" BY WHO? MARVEL COMICS? I cant stop laughing at that. Wow this was a funny article.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 9:30am):
The law school is a great place for minority students. Just look at the reaction that has come because of these comments. The minority student groups are some of the most active groups at the law school. Don't knock the law school because of one professor's comments.
-1L
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 10:04am):
I am just wondering why the students didnt speak up in class as the comments were being made? you should have challenged him right at that moment instead of making it this HUGE national ordeal. you could have done this in a number of ways including walking or voicing your disagreement.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 10:10am):
good job on capturing the supposedly open forum. and thanks.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 10:16am):
Although last nights forum was definitely the right move towards a more open dialogue involving race, I have a couple of concerns. First, there was the failure to address the actual classroom incident itself. Community members and even people within the law school have not had the opportunity to evaluate BOTH sides of the issue. Yes, those comments are offensive, but we never heard Kaplan's side of the story. Of course it's a great jumping off point for the dialogue about Hmong and minority relations, but to scapegoat Kaplan without hearing his version of the events is wrong. Furthermore, I am concerned about what I see is the incorrect image that the community will get from this forum. As a minority student in attendance at the law school, I am proud to say that this school has a FIRM commitment to diversity. I am worried that people will decide not to come here because the image the community now has is that this school fosters racist viewpoints.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 10:18am):
I was there last night, and I thought it was incredibly rude for the undergradute Hmong student group to demand that the dean of the law school support their suggestions on the spot without giving him a chance to look over their proposals. Second of all, it was also incredibly rude of the undergrad group to leave immediately after giving those demands without listening to any of the other speakers. Do you know how disruptive it is for 50+ people to walk out of the room? And also, why should we seriously consider your demands when you didn't even care enough to see what other groups had to say about the issue? Yes I realize its an emotional issue, but conduct yourselves with more professionalism next time.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 10:32am):
if the professor really believed that he was misunderstood, don't you think that he would have shown up to make that point and help clarify and lessen the issue? Aferall, it occured becuase of what he said, and his excuse is that "He fears that his presence would shift the focus of the discussion to what happened in his class, which would seriously detract from the broader educational function that this can serve." looks a bit guilty to me...he can teach but not learn?
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 10:42am):
This is exactly the kind of liberal censorship that gets in the way of academic discourse, and that fearless sifting and winnowing that is always drilled into us. Political correctness is nice and all, but not when it forces professor's to censor their lessons. If the students had listened to Kaplan's comments, they would have seen that by actually responding and critiquing his statements they would have been more prepared to defend Hmong people in court.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 10:43am):
I thought the whole point of getting a higher education is to get an education, not add more stereotypes such as "Is that all the same family in the picture?" and "Aren't the Hmong here becasue they would be killed in their native land?"
I thought the article was well-written but I cannot believe that BH is allowing these posts!!
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 10:48am):
I will withhold making an opinion until Professor Kaplan has the courage to speak to the law school students about his comments. He is a highly educated tenured professor and thus I am confident if it was a misunderstanding, he can articulate it as such, and the law school can try to learn from this.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 11:09am):
Why would Kaplan show up at an event that was less about determining what happened than about learning about Hmong culture? If the student activists wanted a debate with Kaplan they should have made two forums, one for the issues with Kaplan and the other with more general issues of racism, Hmong, and diversity. The student activists no longer seem to care about the former, and would rather deal with other issues regardless of the damage to Kaplan's reputation or a broader concern with academic freedom or the actual account of events.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 11:21am):
"Kashia Moua, who was in Kaplan's lecture."
You people at the Herald have botched this story up so badly; Kashia was not in the class! Just like how Nam Dao is not Hmong and his last name is spelled Dao not Dam. Whatever happened verifying basic facts?
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 11:38am):
All anyone needs to do is look at some of the comments above to get an idea of how appallingly ignorant and backwards people can be in Wisconsin. I have never witnessed such ignorance and closed-mindedness until I came to Wisconsin.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 12:00pm):
if you are not hmong you should not feel the right to judge what they are going through as legitimate or not.
as a woman i would never allow a man to judge whether or not my feelings are just when i feel someone is being sexist.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 12:14pm):
Yeah, I'm not feeling the "Magnificent Seven" thing either. Mangificent for what? Being offended?
Nothing brings students together like an assumed offense.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 12:16pm):
stereotypes such as..."Aren't the Hmong here becasue they would be killed in their native land?"
It may be a stereotype, but does it matter that it may be true? Or does only the PC "truth" matter?
***
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 7:56am):
I am sitting here at my computer writing while my young boy sleeps on the floor at my feet. Less than fifty miles from here there is a large dry season offensive going on to kill the remaining Hmong still living in the Xaysambon special zone. Most of the Hmong who ever fought in the war a long time ago are long gone, left are younger men, women, children, babies. All are being killed regardless. I feel helpless to do anything for my fellow human beings. Lots of troop movement, helicopters, soldiers. Today heavy rains briefly in the evening. I hope the dry season ends while there are still some people left. My country is silent, the price we pay for another ally in our war against terror. War against terror. I wonder.
South of Vang Vien 9pm March 2 2007
Hmong deserve political asylum
http://badgerherald.com/oped/2007/03/01/hmong_deserve_politi.php
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 12:38pm):
The caption in today's newspaper reads that all the students in the photo are Hmong. They are NOT all Hmong. Please get your FACTS straight. This is not the first time you have published stories with mistakes. There are also mistakes withint the story itself. This is not acceptable because your newspaper is widely read. You are publishing untrue facts which defeats the whole purpose of what the job of a journalist is. It also undermines newspapers, which is why so many readers are skeptical to trust information and writers.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 12:51pm):
I would comment but this is turning into a circus....wait... oops.
- Germain E. Stemme
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:02pm):
I'm not a student in Kaplan's Legal Process class. I am however a law student that's concerned about how this is being treated. This incident should not have become a public issue, and the students should not have brought the entire community into this.
The law school is itself a unique community that discusses many issues that are difficult to discuss in public. For example, we discuss acquaintance rape, specifically whether the allegedly raped women's subjective beliefs should be the only inquiry; we discuss gender issues, specifically whether women are strong enough to be in combat; we discuss sexual orientation, specifically whether two men should be able to marry and raise children; and we discuss immigration, specifically whether Mexican immigrants should be paid a higher wage for their minimal skill sets. These are just some of the issues that get students in heated debates during class. We come out of these classes with mutual respect and admiration for each other's views. More importantly, we come out prepared to face these challenging issues in our profession and to make informed decisions.
From what I've heard in Nam Dao's statement and the law school Dean's statement, the context of the classroom discussion was legal formalism and the State's inability to adjust laws to the different cultures. Kaplan used Hmong as an example, but he could have used any other culture affected by this, e.g., Muslim, Latino or any other Asian culture. He used commonly cited stereotypes to illustrate his point. In one instance, he was discussing the "cultural defense" which American courts historically have been extremely reluctant to admit. This is an emerging issue that students need to discuss.
The problem is that the two (not seven) students in class complaining of the discussion didn't want to hear the Hmong culture used as an example. They also didn't like the way that Kaplan presented the material. What the entire law school student body wants to know is, why didn't they speak up? Should they have spoken up? Is an inflammatory email distributed among the entire community the proper way to address a personal concern? If not, can we setup an independent, confidential body to deal with these personal concerns? Why are they not talking about the incident specifically and critically rather than emotionally? Why did they not take Kaplan's challenged to come back to class and refute the statements? If this is too far, then how far are we going to allow professor to go?
Although we were promised a forum to discuss these questions, it didn't happen. At the first forum, KaShia Moua told us that we were not discussing point of views on academic freedom and promised a second forum to do so. We all went to this second forum last night to get answers, to see how far he went and to determine what the moral not legal boundaries of education are. We did not get that. Instead, like the first forum, it started with a statement specifically telling students that we were not going to discuss the incident or any issues of academic freedom.
Many law students feel outraged. Although it's good that those of us who attended the forum learned about the Hmong culture, we still do not know if this lecture came at the proper cost. The cost I'm referring to is the chilling effect that this will have on professors' speech and the racist brand that Kaplan will have to carry with him for the rest of his life.
I agree with Nishith Patel and his statements in the Badger Herald. Let's get another forum to discuss this issue. This time, let's keep it within the law school community. Invite professors, students and administration to talk about this critically. Let's come out of this forum with goals and a proper procedure for dealing with personal concerns. I think it will better discussion in class and will help our professors determine what the moral boundaries of education are.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:13pm):
wisconsin people are just ignorant!!!!!
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:21pm):
I am greatly dissapointed at the Badger Herald who they CANNOT get their facts straight. Of course not telling factual information and creating a novel will get more attention of readers, but it is not right when you write things that are not even right. I am also greatly dissapointed at UW-Madison, who i really believe, they will not try hard enough to encourage diversity and fill this gap. What Professor Kaplan said in his lecture is degrading to all Hmong people. There is no way possible to say all those things and find it okay to say it in a lecture full of students, especially when these ignorant stereotypes are false.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:26pm):
"I will withhold making an opinion until Professor Kaplan has the courage to speak to the law school students about his comments. He is a highly educated tenured professor and thus I am confident if it was a misunderstanding, he can articulate it as such, and the law school can try to learn from this."
He has already done so privately according to various news reports.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:27pm):
The following comment is from Ann Althouse's blog from a student in the course with a very different story from the supposed "magnificent seven:"
"I am in the Legal Process class that is the subject of the discussion and was there that day. No one was recording it or even taking notes, probably, because the class has such an informal quality.
It is being suggested by the quotes going around that Professor Kaplan's remarks were some comment about the essential worth of a Hmong man, as in `All Hmong men are good at is killing,' meant that it is just in their inherent nature to kill and be good at it. They are uncivilized and that is all they are good for. This is a misrepresentation of the comments. I believe that the clear thrust of his comments was that all these immigrants who lived their whole life in the mountains of Laos are now transplanted here. There, all the men knew was killing. Here, the society is different. Kaplan pointed out the difficulties that Hmong men have had at integrating here because the kind of society here is different than the hunting society that existed in their homeland. He also pointed out how well Hmong women have intergrated because the skills that they came to this county with translate here. That is, they are weavers and artisans, and they can use that skill here while the Hmong men's skills are simply no good here. The context of the discussion was basically a critique of how the federal and state governments have dropped the ball in the way that they have handled the Hmong. Kaplan was very critical of the fact that the government should have easily forseen the problem and set up programs to help the immigrants integrate.
Also the suggestion that he made a conclusory statement that all young Hmong men turn to gangs is an incredible simplification. First of all he said that all second generation immigrant groups turn to crime as a way to break into an economy that is not integrating them. He illustrated with examples of other cultural groups, most notably that of Jewish immigrants.
He did not say that Hmong men rape their wives and then get upset that they have paid too much for them. During a discussion about legal formalism he illustrated how black letter law can be more open to interpretation than one might think, once cultural difference are factored in by using the example of a Hmong man who agrees with a woman's father to pay a dowry in exchange for a bride. Then he wants to be intimate with his wife. She says no, he does it anyway because in his mind this is a marriage and this is just the way things work. She claims she was raped. He asked how many of us in the class would agree, and I believe everyone raised their hand. He then suggested that the husband and the father might disagree, and he did say that the man thought he paid to much, which was a joke, and many people laughed.
I apologize that I can't put quotes around the things that he said, but it has been a while and I don't want to misquote him. Many of us in the class are upset about the way this is all happening, the way that his statements are being interpreted. I feel very bad for the students who feel offended, and I know that Kaplan does too. I decided not to attend the meeting last night when I read that some students from the class would give their opinions. When these comments first came out I wrote to Dean Davis and expressed that I did not agree with the characterization of those comments. When I was not invited to give my opinions I knew that only one kind of comment was going to be appreciated at last night's forum. I want my Hmong classmates to come back to class, and I am sorry that they are hurt, but I think that it is important to be a voice against `P.C.' and a voice for real equality and critical thinking about the issue of race."
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:28pm):
Since NONE of you actually know what was said, how can YOU say it was offensive or racist?
We've already seen lacrosse players at Duke raked over the coals over an allegation that has been shown to be false.
Unless the students can actually produce what Kaplan said, it's just he said-she said --- and I'll trust Kaplan's words over a group of students with an axe to grind and who are looking to parlay this into money and benefits for themselves.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:38pm):
"All anyone needs to do is look at some of the comments above to get an idea of how appallingly ignorant and backwards people can be in Wisconsin. I have never witnessed such ignorance and closed-mindedness until I came to Wisconsin."
That may be true, but those that are holding their judgment until the professor's version of the events is given (and a less biased account of what happened by someone not emotionally charged) are not doing so out of ignorance, rather prudence.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:40pm):
after reading many of the comments above i feel the NEED to say many things and hopefully, if you (meaning the authors of some specific posts) come back and check how people respond to your ignorance and stupidity, then you will learn something other than how to be a narrow minded, white privileged (and yes, i am making a WIDE assumption, does that bother you to be lumped into a broad category and given no voice?)jackass.
the forum was supposed to be an opportunity for the community and the students to talk about the incident WITH professor kaplan's input and defense for using the statements that he did about the Hmong.
-Professor Kaplan did NOT show up. How do you have a forum when the man in question DOES NOT even BOTHER to show up? and gives a lame ass excuse about turning the subject away from the real issue. the REAL issue is YOU, PROFESSOR KAPLAN and YOU saying what you did. if you used it in within academic context, then prove it. that's it. prove it.
The posts:
1.) "Aren't the Hmong here because they would be killed in their native homeland?"
-the Hmong are here in the United States because they fought for the UNITED STATES during the Vietnam War.
what i am interpreting from your statement is that the Hmong are here in the US and so they should be grateful that they are not being murdered back in their homeland, yes?
The Hmong, more than any other immigrant group, has MORE than EARNED the right to be here in the Unites States of America.
What have you done to earn this privilege?
Be born white and in America?
2. '"Magnificient Seven?" BY WHO? MARVEL COMICS?"'
and
"I am just wondering why the students didnt speak up in class as the comments were being made? you should have challenged him right at that moment instead of making it this HUGE national ordeal. you could have done this in a number of ways including walking or voicing your disagreement."
obviously, no one can know exactly what was going in inside those womens' minds as they sat there and heard a professor, who they highly respected, degrading their very own people. and i think that from even asking a question like that i can make a few basic assumptions about you.
1.) you are white
2.) you have never been discriminated against
3. you have never had to stand up for/ represent the entire white race
the marvel comics statement. do you think it is easy to stand up and speak out about this? when you are SO blatantly discriminated against your first reaction is to react in anger, right? but the truth is that I don't wake up everyday and say to myself "I'm going to be discriminated against today so I better emotionally prepare myself."
they are magnificent for finding the courage to speak up about what happened.
and obviously, YOU are never associated with the word "magnificent" or "brave."
as for speaking out right then and there. i imagine shock held them captive. it happens to EVERYONE! when something happens like you are insulted to your face...sometimes you only come up with a rebuttal hours later and wished you had said this or that.
when was the last time you stood up in lecture and challenged your professor? when was the last time you went to the doctor because you were ill and then defied the doctor after disagreeing with his or her medical advise? you wouldn't and you don't.
THINGS LIKE THIS NEED TO BE MADE INTO A "HUGE, NATIONAL ORDEAL" so that they can be dealth with accordingly.
and fyi. the law students did meet with the law school admins AND professor kaplan themselves.
think to yourself for a minute...i mean, really try, im sure you won't tax your brain THAT much.
Why are you blaming the victim?
think about and reply if you feel the need to do so. i would LOVE to hear you argument.
LASTLY, I wanted to say that I am so disappointed in people. To think that we are making progress in the path of diversity is a lie that we have told ourselves. You have but to read the newspapers and see the media attention surrounding this incident that FAIR reporting is not even being given a chance.
But then again, what did i expect? White people ARE the media.
disclaimer: I am not hating on White people. Just some people on here in particular. I know that one person does not represent his or her entire ethnic group. I do not judge all White people based on Professor Kaplan.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:44pm):
This is comment to these two statements:
At the forum it became clear that the students had one interpretation of what was said in the initial class and Kaplan had another. The fact that Kaplan suggested to the students that he disprove his argument with evidence and citation implies he was in fact talking not about racist Hmong stereotypes but rather Hmong cultural practices that have been used in court cases. I am glad Kaplan has not conceded to the student demands and apologized for beliefs attributed to him that he obviously does not hold. This was a misunderstanding and the students at the forum failed to even consider that they had misinterpreted Kaplan's statements.
What ever happened to "Sticks and stones can break my bones but word can never hurt me"?
Aren't the Hmong here becasue they would be killed in their native land
both of you are idiots...
sticks and stone can break my bones but words can never hurt me.
that's the biggest bs in the world. when you were younger everyone was taught that. in reality, everyone knows thats just untrue.
and second part of your statement, makes no difference, its irrevealant.
the first argument, what are you talking about, you dont know what happen.
Even those individuals in class and said that there wasnt anything wrong with his statements are idiots, i dont know how they got into law school.
if i was there, i would question his remarks right there and then. those remarks would not shock me as it has been stated by many. you can always disagree with statements, thats not the problem and issue at hand though.....
there just needs to be a clarification:
so everyone may form their own sound opinions
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:47pm):
seriously, what drugs are you taking,
misinterpreted?
im sorry but your statement is just plain stupid.
just read what you wrote you'll understand.
Education about the Hmong is good but I remain convinced after the forum last night that Kaplan was severely misinterpreted and that he should not apologize for the remarks Moua attributed to him in her email. More diversity training without consideration of the effect of diversity commitments on academic freedom is a bad idea. Such training combined with the law school dean's failure to consider academic freedom would greatly reduce the diversity of opinion in the law school (though I suspect many in the law school would not care too much about such a decline in diversity of opinion).
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:51pm):
As a minority student in attendance at the law school, I am proud to say that this school has a FIRM commitment to diversity. I am worried that people will decide not to come here because the image the community now has is that this school fosters racist viewpoints.
FIRM?
are you joking...cause thats funny
commitment and doing something about is totally different, please dont make it seem that both go hand and hand
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:53pm):
The forum last night was a complete disappointment and waste of time. The "magnificent seven" is a named filled with irony and there's nothing magnificent about them at all. They failed to tackle the bigger issue at hand: insitutional racism, instead they were worried about their own image and cared for their own professionalism. I'm sorry but when did being politically correct help anyone. If they really cared they would have understand that it's not just "the law school" and that this issue should be contain within those walls but this effects the community, generations to come, and the university.
Dialogue involves many different components so to called last night a dialogue such an overstatement. There was no "talking" going on. When was talking around the truth - that is racism- ever going be a way to solve the problem. What's the benefit of inviting all these people to come and "educate" everyone, the problem is that people are not educated - more or less- but that they refuse to see that they need to be. Having a panel of speakers come is just another way of succombing to the racist institution that is UW-Madison.
Also, Badger Herald - if you're going to name the "magnificent seven" in our paper, why not put up a picture of them in the front page. Your choice of visual aid is utterly poor and unprofessional.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:54pm):
I agree with wat Anonymous #7 said, DUMB comment fool!
Question: Where was this great well educated law professor to speak for himself?
Not just the Hmong students, but the Hmong Community along with numerous other minorities gave him the benefit of the doubt and SHOWED UP to hear what HE had to say straight from his own lips, his mind, himself, so they would know the context before they started making judgements.
But
I guess he didn't want to detract from educational lesson about who the Hmong are because he already knew it, because, come on, "Hmong men have no talent other than to kill," "Hmong women are better off now that Hmong men are dying off in this country""all second-generation Hmong end up in gangs and other criminal activity."""all men purchase their wives, so if he wants to have sex with his wife and she doesn't consent, you and I call it rape, but the Hmong guy is thinking, 'Man, I paid too much for her!' "! ;)
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:55pm):
Poster at 12:00 couldn't be more wrong.
1) This has been a bad game of telephone. The context of the professor's remarks has been lost and the emotions have taken over. It doesn't matter to the Hmong students what his actual beliefs are and the point he was trying to illustrate.
2) If you are going to hold a forum to disucss Hmong culture, then do just that. The discussion at the forum was largely in regards to Kaplan's comments and did not stay on topic.
3) Professor Larson who simply read the statement from Kaplan has been personally attacked. She took no sides on the debate, she merely delivered the message from her fellow professor. She received multiple hate emails. She also read a statement to her class detailing an incident on the bus following the meeting.
The outrage by some has detracted from a real learning experience. It only demonstrates their desire to destroy the career of a great professor who intended no harm to the Hmong community.
-1L
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:55pm):
i agree with what you said that it was inapproiate in the sense that they walked out after the their presentation,
I was there last night, and I thought it was incredibly rude for the undergradute Hmong student group to demand that the dean of the law school support their suggestions on the spot without giving him a chance to look over their proposals. Second of all, it was also incredibly rude of the undergrad group to leave immediately after giving those demands without listening to any of the other speakers. Do you know how disruptive it is for 50+ people to walk out of the room? And also, why should we seriously consider your demands when you didn't even care enough to see what other groups had to say about the issue? Yes I realize its an emotional issue, but conduct yourselves with more professionalism next time.
however, i dont care how you slice it.
in desperate times
anything is a go...
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 1:56pm):
finally a statement i totally agree with:
if the professor really believed that he was misunderstood, don't you think that he would have shown up to make that point and help clarify and lessen the issue? Aferall, it occured becuase of what he said, and his excuse is that "He fears that his presence would shift the focus of the discussion to what happened in his class, which would seriously detract from the broader educational function that this can serve." looks a bit guilty to me...he can teach but not learn?
i mean, dont hide behind your statements.
how can anyone form their own sound opinions without all the facts.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 2:11pm):
Dear "12:00 pm"
Must be nice never having to worry about being wrong.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 2:12pm):
So if you are not a white man you can have no right to judge how it feels to be one?
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 2:19pm):
12:00
Ok, so unless you have been in the military, you are not to judge the military, unless you have been a cook, you are not allowed to judge food. Unless you have been a professor, you are not allowed to judge the quality of a course etc. etc. etc.
Get the picture? You can only talk about female things within your sphere of experience, you are not qualified to judge anything else! You cannot hammer Republicans (or Democrats) because you have never been one.
We have become a society of hawks running around looking for things to bitch about. What does that do? It desensitizes society to real issues because so many petty issues are blown all out of proportion. In order to make a big deal out of Kaplan's statement, one has to take it out of context and run with it.
I can guarantee, had he said white heterosexual Republican men routinely cheat on their wives, steal from the poor, and are the cause of global warming, in the same context, there would not be one peep out of anyone.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 2:28pm):
Being Hmong, I feel as though the only blame that should go to Kaplan is the fact that his examples were distasteful. Although I was not in the lecture, a noted law professor like Kaplan, to me, wouldn't have said those remarks if they didn't have relevance to what was being said in the lecture. I feel like some blame should go to the HASA (Hmong American Student Association) group on campus. They are the ones that should be educating others on the Hmong culture, not having dances or Hmong social gatherings. How is this helping to educate the community and promoting higher education like they're supposed to? I am proud to be Hmong, but one must be objective to all parties if one wasn't in the lecture at the time. I'm sorry to say it, but one must gather all the evidence, not just the evidence that is prevelent to the side that you agree with.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 2:36pm):
To the person who commented: "I am just wondering why the students didnt speak up in class as the comments were being made? you should have challenged him right at that moment instead of making it this HUGE national ordeal. you could have done this in a number of ways including walking or voicing your disagreement."
OBVIOUSLY, they were shocked that those words were ACTUALLY coming out of Kaplan's mouth! They DID meet with Kaplan in a meeting to try to RESOLVE the issue PRIVATELY. However, the issue here is IGNORANCE because Kaplan truly believes in the statements that he made, which were all STEREOTYPES! He lectured to his class as if those statements were facts! What a great way to spread ignorance!
Instead of suggesting the students do this and that, YOU need to ATTEND the forums and meetings so you don't embarrass yourself by making such "smart" suggestions!
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 2:46pm):
The amount of ignorance here amazes me. It's funny how people can judge others so easily when they have never been discriminated in their life!
don't judge a man until you've walked two moons in his moccasins.
don't judge ANY person of color or their experiences until YOU have walked in their shoes
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 2:56pm):
I truly believed that I go to a Big Ten, diverse University where my culture and diversity is appreciated and accepted. After reading those comments, I'm reconsidering my belief. Are people really this ignorant and disrespectful toward other cultures? It's not just about what Kaplan said; it's those kind of comments that are disturbing. Should I have to apologize for not being white? Should I have to apologize for not being like you? Was that really all there was to say about the forum, BH?
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 3:08pm):
Kashia Moua had been talking about having a "Hmong Cultural Awareness Week" for a while. In January, before Kaplan's comments were made, she pleaded with APALSA/SALSA to commit to sponsoring this cultural awareness week. It's obvious that her reaction to Kaplan's comment were opportunistic and self-serving. She blew this entire thing up way larger than it needed to be to achieve goals she already had in mind.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 3:14pm):
Read the comment from other students in the class. Kaplan does not believe those stereotypes and in context what he said is useful to make an academic argument about cultural defense. People who think Kaplan actually believes those things attributed to him are morons. I was at the forum most of the people are more like activists than people interested productive discussions in a classroom. I feel bad people were offended but the fact that these students feel bad does not justify their childish actions.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 3:16pm):
Also, people who aren't in the law school should stop talking about how diversity doesn't work here. Talk to the vast majority of students, take a walk around our law school, sit in on some classes, and see for yourself. Without knowing more, I encourage you to accept your ignorance and be quiet about it.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 3:19pm):
These students are now acting like a bunch of annoying activists and the people who are more concerned with the truth of what happened and academic freedom will now become more vocal in response to the nonsense that Dean Davis has invited with his biased response to this issue. A law school dean that simply takes as fact student complaints and fails to provide an environment conducive to hearing all sides of the story (which the forum I attended was supposed to be about, but instead was glorified diversity training) should be reprimanded and step down from his post, while Kaplan should get an apology for getting screwed over repeatedly in this even for trying to address an important issue.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 3:23pm):
2:46: So you are saying that every Hmong student on campus has no reason to judge Kaplan because Kaplan is a white law professor, and they're Hmong students, and thus have no idea what it's like to be a white law professor?
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 3:26pm):
Law students aren't babies. If they can't stick up for themselves in a classroom, then how the hell will they be able to advocate for their client in a court room?
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 3:31pm):
"...but the Hmong Community along with numerous other minorities gave him the benefit of the doubt and SHOWED UP to hear what HE had to say straight from his own lips,"
Based on their behavior it's obvious that they "SHOWED UP" to lynch the professor and would have shouted down anything he had to say!
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 3:34pm):
A lot of people who spoke yesterday spoke from sheer ignorance. 3 people - only 3 - were in that class with Professor Kaplan. 2 of them were deeply offended. They were either Hmong or of Hmong decent. That class has 18 other students, and none of them though Kaplan's remarks were racist. The student body at UW is liberal, and even more so at the law school. I know with certainty that more people from that class would have been vocal if Kaplan's remarks were actually racist.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 3:34pm):
I'm really sick of the activist law students continuing to use Kaplan to justify their agenda. Whatever sympathy I had for them is gone with their continued effort to exacerbate a situation that was made much worse that it should have been with an ill-informed email by an activist Hmong law student. Many of us at the university who teach here feel that the forum should have been about determining what was actually said and the implications of the law school response for academic freedom, not your agenda to teach us about the Hmong. The bait-and-switch logic of the forum was annoying and so was the patronizing desire to "teach us who the Hmong are." You are dealing with a university community not a bunch of ignorant children.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 3:40pm):
Isn't it funny how it is always those engaging in questionable behavior somehow feel that "nobody should be judged." It is THIS type of ignorance that has perpetuated a lot of the problems that minorities face. If certain groups commit more than their share of crimes, are are less likely to value education, then this is EXACTLY the type of behavior that should be judged and FIXED.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 3:44pm):
I agree with Anonymous.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 4:05pm):
It goes both ways....And don't judge Kaplan until you've fully understood what he said and why he was saying it.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 4:11pm):
To Anonymous at 2:28pm, if you are truly Hmong and are proud of who you are, you should have not criticized HASA. Why do you wait for HASA or others to teach your culture. What about you, at least HASA is trying to exposed the Hmong culture society through dances and social gathering, have you done anything to teach your culture? Why are you attacking your own kind if you are proud to be Hmong?
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 4:29pm):
The thing the detractors fail to state time and time again is the fact that Professor Kaplan, once again, failed to show up. He is the one that made the statements so why is he not at the meetings? This is the second meeting that he has blantantly refused to attend. According to Dean Davis, Professor Kaplan was supposed to attend last night's meeting where students with concerns about what he said could be addressed. And then at the last moment, we all hear that Professor Kaplan can't make it because he feels that it's better if he doesn't come? WTF? Where's his rationale? He's the reason this whole mess started and now he can't even come to an open forum to discuss this? He won't do it in a private meeting like last week Wednesday and was supposed to be here last night but didn't show up.
I understand the level of racism that goes on in this university and the state as a whole (call it ignorance if that makes you feel better). The Hmong community as a whole feels offended so how is it that the comments can be seen as "not racist (ignorant if you want)"? I know why so many students respond the way they do. It's because they're not Hmong. It's that simple. Some argue that it's not that simple but it is. Majority of the time, whenever race related issues or concerns come up, people who aren't of the race could really care less. When Bill O'Reily said three or four years ago that "Black QB's aren't as smart or capable as white QB's" that created an uproar. I didn't feel very offended but if the black community felt offended, they have every right to be and who am I to say or tell them how they should feel about comments directed towards them?
Also, to the poster who said that "the Hmong students should've addressed this in the class and not make it a big deal" shows the ignorance of themselves. If the poster had been at the meetings, he/she would've known that the 4 Asian students met with Professor Kaplan privately to talk about the matter and Professor Kaplan refused to take back what he said because he believed in it. That's why it has gone this far.
BTW, this is far from a HUGE national ordeal. Besides WI, I don't see it on CNN or even on any of the news websites so stop with the stupid comments. You don't look any smarter or more brave talking from behind a computer under the alias of "anonymous". It just shows how scared you are that you have to hide your face in order to tell the University and student body about how you feel without being revealed. I hope this catches on and does become a HUGE national ordeal because it should be.
The University is condoning his actions and Professor Downs has gone on record saying that "We want professors to speak with what they see as their truths". So what Professor Downs said is that if a professor is racist (or ignorant for those of you who want to feel better) and believes his racism to be true, he can express them. Yet the UW clearly states that academic freedom is ok until you offend someone on the basis of race, sex, sexual orientation etc. which is exactly what happens so how is a professor speaking what he sees as truth ok?
An important part of the discussion that is missing from the papers/media coverage is the fact that Professor Kaplan challenged the Hmong students to prove his racist remarks wrong. He wanted the students to find studies to prove him wrong in order for him to repel his statements. The question I have is this, what studies does Professor Kaplan have to support his racist claim? "All" 2nd generation Hmong are in gangs when almost all of the Hmong-American students here are 2nd generations?
If you want to defend Professor Kaplan's remarks as just stereotypes like Nam Dao, I have this to say. Being Hmong, I've heard every cruel, true and untrue, comment/stereotype that has been said about the Hmong. I've never heard that Hmong men rape Hmong women and it's alright. Is this a stereotype that Professor Kaplan came up by himself? How about "All 2nd generation Hmong end up in gangs or criminal activity"? I've never heard of that either. It's true that there are Hmong teens in gangs but it's not all as is evident with the number of Hmong students here at the University as Hmong students make up 26% of the Asian American student population. If you're going to use a stereotype, use one that is actually being heard, not one you made up yourself to justify your hatred or dislike of a particular group of people.
As for Nam Dao, he is entitled to his opinions as is everyone else. There are a couple of things that bother me personally about what he's said and continues to say. He says that Professor Kaplan doesn't mean or believe in what was said in class on Feb. 15 yet the 4 Asian students who WERE offended actually talked with Professor Kaplan privately and all 4 said Professor Kaplan truly believed what he said was true. Why does Nam's opinion not change after that? Nam is defending Professor Kaplan as if he owes Professor Kaplan something. But when the time came for Professor Kaplan to show, which he was supposed to and was confirmed by Dean Davis, he failed to show up to defend his comments and the context of which he said them in. I don't know Nam personally nor do I hold any ill will towards him but the reason why he didn't feel offended is because he's an insensitive person. He stated many times during Wednesday's meeting and last night's meeting that he's desensitized to these matters. That's great that he's desensitized and all but there are still those who are offended by it. Too bad the stereotypes Professor Kaplan used were not about the Vietnamese population because we'd, more likely than not, see Nam getting offended as well. Had the comment been made about "All" Vietnamese people being evil, in gangs, and all dog eaters, we'd be hearing a different story from Nam as well. What I said here is not meant to offend any of the Vietnamese students here on campus but just to put it into perspective.
Until Professor Kaplan can face the music and come to terms with what he said and did, this will not rest. I am speaking only for myself but I refuse to let this rest. The Hmong community has always been very passive and has always tried to avoid legal confrontations. It was that way with this issue as well when the students met with Professor Kaplan privately but he refused to repel what he said and that he believes what he said to be true. There is no way that I will stand quiet and watch this pass by. I hope that the student body and the University will not stand quiet either.
"Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak. Courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen"
"It is easier to just sit there in silence than it is to stand up and stare adversity in the face"
"There is only one evil...ignorance"
Touhoua Yang
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 4:37pm):
If we're not hmong Mr Kaplan will not say that, but because he's the master of RACISM, so we can't do any thing for him to apologize, but if we are white the law schoool will force him to submitt an apologize already, so it's important not just the hmong students, but we are as whole hmong community need to support our young kids, remember our parents are payingtax to pay for Mr Kaplan, so lets us come together as a Hmong Family
Thank you for those non-hmong
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 5:22pm):
okay this statement is just stupid, this incident while started in the law school, is not a localized event. so to suggest an only law school forum is IGNORANT!
you are an idiot.
I agree with Nishith Patel and his statements in the Badger Herald. Let's get another forum to discuss this issue. This time, let's keep it within the law school community. Invite professors, students and administration to talk about this critically. Let's come out of this forum with goals and a proper procedure for dealing with personal concerns. I think it will better discussion in class and will help our professors determine what the moral boundaries of education are.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 5:28pm):
1:40pm,
"think about and reply if you feel the need to do so. i would LOVE to hear you argument."
Ok, here you go:
Where you in that class? Did you speak with someone who was? Or are you just automatically assuming that the white male professor is wrong and the minority female students are right?
If you were in the class, did you hear what the professor said, or did you allow your hyper-PC-sensitive liberalism to get in the way of understanding the context of his statements?
"if you used it in within academic context, then prove it. that's it. prove it."
Because he is guilty until proven innocent??? Sorry, but it works the other way around. The students have to prove their case, which they have failed to do. Unfortunately, it seems that people like yourself are more than willing to automatically assume he is guilty.
"THINGS LIKE THIS NEED TO BE MADE INTO A "HUGE, NATIONAL ORDEAL" so that they can be dealt with accordingly."
I agree with you here. The reality that two minority students can raise such a huge stink over a few out of context statements, while having everybody automatically assume that the white male professor is racist... this needs to be dealt with.
"Why are you blaming the victim?"
What victim? Kaplan? He seems to be the one that everybody automatically assumes is racist. As if the few statements he may have made are going to hurt the two Hmong students anywhere near as much as they are hurting him by all of this???
You instantly and emotionally victimize the minority students by automatically assuming their outrage is justified. You also assume that anyone not agreeing with your approach to the situation is ignorant, stupid, narrow-minded, and white privileged. I don't understand why you are so opposed to approaching this situation rationally.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 5:32pm):
For all those who say we can't comment because we are not Hmong. Great, keep your mouths shut until you have been a law professor who's comments have been taken out of context and blown out of proportion!
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 5:36pm):
agreed 2:46
why do white people feel entitled to judge the experiences of people of color? well, they shouldn't because they aren't.
instead of attacking the hmong group for how they reacted...use your privilege to identify how we can move forward. how YOU can help avoid this form happening again.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 5:41pm):
If only we were this passionate about things that matter.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 5:56pm):
Once again, hiding behind the alias anonymous, everyone grows a huge pair of balls.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 5:59pm):
To "anonymous 5:28"
Put a name behind those brilliant words. So many people are defending the actions of Professor Kaplan when he himself, refuses to appear at public or private meetings. Also, a lot can be learned by reading what I posted earlier as it is a waste of time to post something I've already posted. Go read Touhoua Yang 4:29
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 6:01pm):
Im sorry it does not matter what those other students say, you are the moron here.
the only way to form a sound opinion is to hear what the Professor saids to what was said during that particular lecture, but for some reason, that hasnt happen and dont believe it will happen.
IGNORANT FOOL:
Read the comment from other students in the class. Kaplan does not believe those stereotypes and in context what he said is useful to make an academic argument about cultural defense. People who think Kaplan actually believes those things attributed to him are morons. I was at the forum most of the people are more like activists than people interested productive discussions in a classroom. I feel bad people were offended but the fact that these students feel bad does not justify their childish actions.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 6:09pm):
im sorry but what you wrote is idiotic,
first off, remarks are subjective,
maybe the reason why didnt feel it was a racist remark it because they believe themselves as not racist. but that doesnt resolve the issue at hand , that just opinions of people again.
A lot of people who spoke yesterday spoke from sheer ignorance. 3 people - only 3 - were in that class with Professor Kaplan. 2 of them were deeply offended. They were either Hmong or of Hmong decent. That class has 18 other students, and none of them though Kaplan's remarks were racist. The student body at UW is liberal, and even more so at the law school. I know with certainty that more people from that class would have been vocal if Kaplan's remarks were actually racist.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 6:11pm):
dumb comment:
It goes both ways....And don't judge Kaplan until you've fully understood what he said and why he was saying it.
how can we when hes not willing to discuss it with the public...
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 6:20pm):
Honestly, I feel as if this is a test for all, not just Hmong people, but for the whole entire public university. Doesn't matter what ethnicity you are, you are being victimized in a GAME that you are being placed in without informed consent. Come on seriously, who would rather want to test college students than their professors. Maybe it's time we think about ourselves and prove everyone wrong and change the world. To all the Hmong men out there, show them who you really are and prove to them and take there places to make this democracy country a healthier place. Let this not be the very last. There will be time of patience and time of devotion. Be my role model for the true Hmong men, in addition, Hmong women, but better yet "society."
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 6:21pm):
1:56p: "if the professor really believed that he was misunderstood, don't you think that he would have shown up to make that point and help clarify and lessen the issue"
That would have been one of the worst ideas he could have entertained. They wanted blood, not a discussion (the aggrieved did walk out before anybody else had a chance to address their concerns). Kaplan was not going to sit there and become a punching bag for the kids.
2:28: "I feel as though the only blame that should go to Kaplan is the fact that his examples were distasteful. Although I was not in the lecture, a noted law professor like Kaplan, to me, wouldn't have said those remarks if they didn't have relevance to what was being said in the lecture."
Since you were not there, you are in absolutely no position to make any statement, one way or the other, about any of this. An accusation with literally no evidence to back it up was made. I always thought the accuser should be expected to prove their case. I mean, they are in law school and all.
"OBVIOUSLY, they were shocked that those words were ACTUALLY coming out of Kaplan's mouth!"
Obviously? To whom?
So, when these kids get into practicing law, when somebody in opposition to their client says something untrue, they won't actually object in court but, instead, will go home and circulate emails?
Is that the plan?
Again, feel free to cite your proof of what was said. Otherwise, you're condemning somebody for no reason.
"They DID meet with Kaplan in a meeting to try to RESOLVE the issue PRIVATELY. However, the issue here is IGNORANCE because Kaplan truly believes in the statements that he made, which were all STEREOTYPES! He lectured to his class as if those statements were facts! What a great way to spread ignorance"
Again, a smidgeon of proof of this will soon be forthcoming, right? I mean, you know Kaplan so well and all to be able to speak to what he believed.
4:29: "According to Dean Davis, Professor Kaplan was supposed to attend last night's meeting where students with concerns about what he said could be addressed."
According to Kaplan's colleague, Ann Althouse, the faculty knew Kaplan was not going to be there. Why anybody thought he would be there is a mystery.
"Where's his rationale? He's the reason this whole mess started and now he can't even come to an open forum to discuss this? He won't do it in a private meeting like last week Wednesday and was supposed to be here last night but didn't show up. "
It is unwise to entertain the ramblings of people who only want your blood.
Kaplan, as anybody with a modicum of intellect, knew precisely what would happen if he showed up there and saw no need to subject himself to the bashing of a student who is SO indignant over what she heard other people tell her he said in class.
In court, that'd be called hearsay and inadmissible.
If these students are representative of UW Law School students, then they are being poorly educated.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 6:38pm):
Maybe if Professor Kaplan could actually issue a statement or SHOW UP anywhere to defend himself then I could understand why the hell there are so many people willing to stand up for him who don't even know him.
My connection is that I am Hmong and this man made derogatory and false statements about my people. Not just those students, but my entire culture.
What's your reason? Because Professor Kaplan is a white and you are too?
Professor Kaplain hurt himself and his own career when he chose to say what he did. That's the truth.
If anyone is responsible for his ruined reputation, it is Professor Kaplan.
ps. i wish people would stop saying the "female minority students." This isn't going to be a sexist issue, I hope. Because I know someone already who devalues anything that the "female" students said just because they were women and "liked to whine."
Let's not bring our genders into the equation when there's enough on the table already.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 8:16pm):
Touhoua,
I agree...Nam Dao is an insensitive person. He probably hates black people too.
Sincerely,
Someone who actually knows Nam Dao
P.S. Try not to get so emotionally involved in this that you insult someone you don't know.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 9:02pm):
Thank you for clarifying that Nam hates black people. I never made any assumptions about him hating Hmong or any other minority group. I was just stating what he said at the meetings. He said three times that he has been "desensitized" to these issues and that's why he didn't get offended. Thank you somebody who knows Nam Dao
Touhoua Yang
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 9:31pm):
If Hmong students are going to wait for Kaplan to apologize for those things KaShia Moua attributes to him, then they will be waiting a long time because it seems obvious that he did not say those things and (even if he did say those things in context) he obviously does not believe those things. However, he probably does believe that the US government did not do a good enough job of anticipating the difficulties of assimilating the Hmong into the United States. His points he made about those issues could have been refuted because the points he made (according to some of the other students in the course) were all reasonable. The students should have sat down to think about what Kaplan meant in the meeting rather than feeling upset he did not accept responsibility for beliefs he does not hold. These students lacked intellectual maturity to deal with the topic in a constructive manner.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 9:40pm):
"could understand why the hell there are so many people willing to stand up for him who don't even know him."
Perhaps they don't like seeing someone railroaded by hear-say, who don't go along with "guilty until proven innocent" - which only seems to happen to whites.
Anonymous (March 2, 2007 @ 10:56pm):
Those who marched in and later out of the forum last night could not have been more disrespectful and rude. Not only was it distracting to those who were listening to the speaker, it was also very unprofessional. One would think that college students would understand that approaching a situation in the most professional way is the only way to get the most respect from others.
Kaplan obviously wasn't thinking about others when he made his comments. HASA, too was inconsiderate when marching in and out of the forum.
Asking for an immediate answer from the dean was also very unrealistic. I am sure it took HASA some time to formulate their proposal. It only makes sense that it would take more time to look it over and make a decision. I am glad the dean responded the way he did. Agreeing with the proposal would have given HASA unnecessary instant gratification and would only promote more of the same behavior from this group.
Egocentrism is usually a characteristic of children, not grown adults. The behavior of HASA last night definitely showed otherwise. Instead of arriving on time and leaving when the entire forum was over in order to hear the perspectives of all of those who spoke, HASA came just to give their say and immediately left thereafter. Way to represent the Hmong student body.
Too often people act like cattle. One says, "Moo," another one says "Moo" and the rest of the herd just follows. We should not reduce ourselves to animals.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 12:18am):
6:38p: "My connection is that I am Hmong and this man made derogatory and false statements about my people. Not just those students, but my entire culture.
What's your reason? Because Professor Kaplan is a white and you are too?"
To give you some advice, calling anybody who disagrees with you "racist" is not exactly going to generate anything but scorn for the petulant nature of the attack.
Why am I defending Kaplan? I am, in fact, not. I am stating that the complainants presented no evidence to back up their claim and until they do, I don't hold their complaints very seriously.
They're learning to be lawyers. Act like one and present a case.
Don't let loyalty to your race blind you to flaws in a case.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 1:55am):
This is ridiculous. Regardless of who did and didn't hear what was said in class, everyone is going to have their own opinions and perspectives. Everyone is worried about being on their own platform that there is no hope for any reconciliation and mutual understanding. If none of you are willing to shut the hell up for a moment and just listen to all points of view without trying to immediately judge and make assumptions, this issue will never be resolved. Why do you think issues like this still exist today? Analyze this however you want, but it's going to be an ongoing process if everyone just keeps blaming each other for every disagreement.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 2:17am):
"I was there last night, and I thought it was incredibly rude for the undergradute Hmong student group to demand that the dean of the law school support their suggestions on the spot without giving him a chance to look over their proposals. Second of all, it was also incredibly rude of the undergrad group to leave immediately after giving those demands without listening to any of the other speakers. Do you know how disruptive it is for 50+ people to walk out of the room? And also, why should we seriously consider your demands when you didn't even care enough to see what other groups had to say about the issue? Yes I realize its an emotional issue, but conduct yourselves with more professionalism next time."
Wow, of all the things going on here with this situation, the thing you can point out and want to write about is this? No wonder those students are sick of your institution and the yahoos who attend and run it. Professionalism, you say? That's an interesting place and time to make that comment, jackass. Now after seeing the students' actions, you might be able to relate to how they feel like in the way the school and that kyke-lover have been treating them. Yep, kyke-lover, because I'm just expressing my first amendment right, the truth, and showing that I'm not going to walk on thin ice. I'm going to provoke thought. It doesn't matter if it offends and who, because it's necessary for learning, right? So, will the convicted murders be on campus anytime soon? You can learn from them too, right? Many of you here who say the Hmongs should not be offended then should be defending my right as well, right? This is all in the name of academic progress and learning, right? Well, certainly if you can't learn from my racial slander, you can learn from the fact I have a right to say it and that I believe it has a place on campus. Anybody should be allowed to say anything in the classroom setting and not reap repercussions for it because it is helpful to the academic learning process in which we pay our hard-earned dollars for, right? UW-Madison, huh, how do I get in? I'd love to go there and know I can say whatever I want in the name of academic freedom and neither the school nor it's faculty will stop me because they're just as ignorant and lacking for common sense as most of the student population there. Way to go administrators and students of UW-Madison, you've got a gem of an institution there. No, they're not laughing with you, they're laughing at you.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 2:18am):
To 10:56
The walking in and walking out late, was that organized by HASA? As far as everyone else knew, it wasn't organized by HASA at all so you should stop with your false claims. The letter given to Dean Davis wasn't from HASA or was it? I have one of the letters and it's not from HASA. There were also non-Hmong students who walked in and out with that group as well. While I don't condone their actions, I don't condemn it either. Some people think that in order to be heard, actions need to be taken because words are falling on deaf ears. Being quiet and respectful apparently fell on deaf ears as Professor Kaplan refused to show up once again even after confirmation by the dean of Law that he'd show up. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm torn on the whole walking in late and leaving early but their voices were heard and actions made clear to university that they are mobile and capable.
I just hope that the University will look into this and that Professor Kaplan will actually meet with the Hmong community to discuss what was said or not said.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 2:26am):
The coward couldn't even show up. Regardless of what was allegedly said, he's the only one who can facilitate a reconciliation of this situation. Why is he so opposed to how it's done? Does he not give validity to these students and this people's inquiries? What does it say about him and his ability to reason with rights of human beings? Not very much obviously. No matter how bad it will get for him, whether he likes to admit it or not, he created this sh**storm for himself, and if he's any sort of respectable professor and administrator he should be able to wade through the bs that his own alleged statements have brought and rectify it as necessary. But he can't even do that and hides behind some bs reason about how his presence would essentially make the situation worse. The situation is not going to resolve itself without one of the key and primary compenents, and he's that component whether he agrees with it or not. Some are right, this just makes him look more guilty and hurts his credibility even more. His silence is deafening.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 2:26am):
I agree with anyone who believes that this issue has become a ridiculous fight over what exactly?? I don't like where this is going. It seems like the situation did not get much better than when it first began.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 2:28am):
I'm curious what Kaplan is going to say publicly about the statements that he made in class about Hmong people. So far, has he disagreed with the statements he's being accused of saying? It seems like he hasn't said much and is keeping to himself. That's not helping with all these misunderstandings from all people. In addition, whether a person is Hmong or not, if someone said things that wasn't true about your people, you would be equally upset and offended. Maybe, you might have handled it differently? However, the hurt and anger would still be strongly present. How can a group of offended people just go on and dismiss the statements that were said in class just because Kaplan had apologized? He didn't take back his words that what he had said about Hmong people was wrong and misleading because they WERE! if what he said was misinterpretated by the students, then he needs to learn how to deliver his lecture properly with evidence and sources. the classroom environment and teacher should be culture sensitive to all races. i'll keep up with more on this issue in hopes that it will be resolved in a way that both sides will be content with. ~ May
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 4:48am):
holy CRAP that's a lot of comments.
- regular comment flooder who has no idea wtf is going on
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 6:16am):
Kaplan finally speaks-well sort of. Check out the student comments as well. http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=572702
Basically the way I see it, it was a botched lecture-not well delivered for a sensitive topic that offended some people, but was not intended by Kaplan to be offensive. However, I think those students should have spoken up in class to dispel those stereotypes and educate the future attorneys in that room, who all will have to deal with stereotypes in the real world when representing clients or prosecutors who will be deciding what cases to pursue.
It is also my understanding from the meeting on Thursday that some of the frustrations stem from the followup meeting between the offended students and Kaplan--sounded like Kaplan was a jerk to them. The details of that meeting is even more mysterious than the details of the classroom remarks. I think the above article is good for finally showing the interpretation of other people in the class that were not offended. Remember that offensiveness is subjective and shaped by your experiences and who you are. Seems like Kaplan's remarks were not outright objectively harmful--otherwise this would be a shut and closed case. Anyway, how this whole thing has unfolded has been an embarrassment for the law school and no one has come out a winner in this. Let me stress that the law school is an incredibly diverse and tolerant place and this one mishap by a SINGLE professor should not be reflective of this fine law school. I think that a lot of postive things can happen out of this: I think was was a good opportunity for a very misunderstood ethnic group to be finally heard and that sensitive topics should still be discussed with vigor in law school. See thats the cool part about law school- we talk about sensitive issues, especially in Constitutional Law, all the time. This incident is just a reminder that it should be done in a respectful manner.
Regards,
A concerned law student
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 6:35am):
I think another issue out of all this that came to me in Thursday's meeting is that the offended students feel that "these aren't our practices" which I take to mean the dowry system brought up in Kaplan's class. Now, from Nam Dao's statement, it seems to me that Kaplan used the dowry example to illustrate the cultural defense argument in rape cases. It appears that the misquote, which appeared in the email from KaShia, from this example turned into something like "All Hmong men buy and rape their wives." Now I would agree that it is not the practice of Hmong men to buy and rape their wives but I would have to agree that dowry is a Hmong practice-maybe not by all Hmong but certainly there is empirical evidence to confirm that fact-just look up some sociological research. Dowry is practiced by a lot of cultures it is not unique to or invented by the Hmong.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 9:57am):
Read the detailed article in today's Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. There, Kaplan says clearly he did not make the remarks attributed to him.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 10:43am):
why do people of color feel entitled to judge the experiences of white people? well, they shouldn't because they aren't.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 11:48am):
To: 2:18am
According to the moderator of the forum, those who spoke were either community members or representatives of student organizations at the university. I am not aware of too many other organized Hmong student organizations of that number.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 12:10pm):
I don't think students should be concerned about "one mishap by a SINGLE professor should not be reflective of this fine law school." They should be concerned that they too will be misinterpreted, labeled a racist, and have to study law in an environment where students a bomb waiting to go off whenever someone says something they don't like or don't understand. Anyone who wants to engage vigorous debate on important and sensitive issues should probably avoid UW law school based on what happened in Kaplan's course.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 12:42pm):
<b>Being quiet and respectful apparently fell on deaf ears as Professor Kaplan refused to show up once again even after confirmation by the dean of Law that he'd show up.</b>
Again, his colleagues knew he wasn't going to be there. Nobody can figure out why the Dean thought he would. The dean is, apparently, the ONLY one who thought he'd be there.
Perhaps the Dean is not quite on the ball.
<b>No wonder those students are sick of your institution and the yahoos who attend and run it. Professionalism, you say? That's an interesting place and time to make that comment, jackass. Now after seeing the students' actions, you might be able to relate to how they feel like in the way the school and that kyke-lover have been treating them. Yep, kyke-lover, because I'm just expressing my first amendment right, the truth, and showing that I'm not going to walk on thin ice. I'm going to provoke thought.</b>
Good for you. You have now trumped anything anybody claimed Kaplan said. Kudos to you in your usage of blatant bigotry to make a point about opposing alleged bigotry or some such nonsense.
<b>Many of you here who say the Hmongs should not be offended then should be defending my right as well, right? This is all in the name of academic progress and learning, right? Well, certainly if you can't learn from my racial slander, you can learn from the fact I have a right to say it and that I believe it has a place on campus.</b>
And I FULLY agree. Speech should not be stifled on a college campus. But, it is. Routinely.
<b>I don't condemn it either. Some people think that in order to be heard, actions need to be taken because words are falling on deaf ears.</b>
So acting like a child is the option?
These people are going for law degrees and act like kindergarteners. Why would an employer hire somebody so lacking in decorum to work for them?
<b>The coward couldn't even show up. Regardless of what was allegedly said, he's the only one who can facilitate a reconciliation of this situation. Why is he so opposed to how it's done?</b>
Because he knows how these PC show trials go and doesn't wish to participate, as he was wise to do.
There was zero interest in a dialogue, as the late arrival and early departure pretty clearly demonstrate. They wanted blood. You'd be a fool to give it to those children.
<b>What does it say about him and his ability to reason with rights of human beings? Not very much obviously.</b>
There was zero reason involved. What does it say about the children that they just wanted to grandstand and leave before anybody said much of anything?
<b>No matter how bad it will get for him, whether he likes to admit it or not, he created this sh**storm for himself, and if he's any sort of respectable professor and administrator he should be able to wade through the bs that his own alleged statements have brought and rectify it as necessary.</b>
No, a petulant child used hearsay "evidence" to start this up. Until they provide an ounce of evidence, I fully believe they are lying about the incident.
See, I need PROOF --- and whining does not constitute proof --- before I believe them.
<b>So far, has he disagreed with the statements he's being accused of saying?</b>
Yes.
<b>In addition, whether a person is Hmong or not, if someone said things that wasn't true about your people, you would be equally upset and offended.</b>
I'm Southern. I deal with it regularly. I ignore it for the most part because, honestly, I don't really care what anybody I don't really know thinks of me.
<b>How can a group of offended people just go on and dismiss the statements that were said in class just because Kaplan had apologized?</b>
So, they don't want an apology? What, precisely, do they want? Money? Free "A" grades? His head on a pike?
<b>He didn't take back his words that what he had said about Hmong people was wrong and misleading because they WERE!</b>
Seeing as how you do not know what he said, you are in a poor position to argue that. You know what they SAID he said, but I could say that you said you hate all minorities. It wouldn't make my claim true, but since this is the standard of evidence needed to condemn Kaplan, you'd have to apologize --- but, no, that would not be enough.
<b>It is also my understanding from the meeting on Thursday that some of the frustrations stem from the followup meeting between the offended students and Kaplan--sounded like Kaplan was a jerk to them.</b>
You base he was a jerk solely on the whiners' comments. Hardly seems fair to Kaplan.
Man, post-graduates are a sensitive and whiny bunch.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 1:40pm):
Kashia Moua had been talking about having a "Hmong Cultural Awareness Week" for a while. In January, before Kaplan's comments were made, she pleaded with APALSA/SALSA to commit to sponsoring this cultural awareness week. It's obvious that her reaction to Kaplan's comment were opportunistic and self-serving. She blew this entire thing up way larger than it needed to be to achieve goals she already had in mind.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 3:07pm):
A couple comments from an actual law school student . . .
First off, the law school has roughly a 38% minority population, depending on the yearly class. Not impressive by real world standards, but far better than most of UW.
Second, Law Professors do NOT give lectures. Information is NOT presented for mass consumption, as is routinely done in undergraduate courses. Issues are thrown out on the table to be DISCUSSED and EXPLORED, especially in a class the size of Kaplan's. Student learn by weighing the given arguments between students & the professor, NOT by the professor's words alone.
Third, most of the Law students I've talked to are holding off their judgment on Kaplan because we frequently discuss all sorts of hot-button criminal issues ranging from homicide to rape. In searching for what would amount to a conviction "beyond a reasonable doubt", every possibility for innocence must be explored, and that often means throwing out all sorts of explanations for reprehensible acts. If you cherry-picked nearly any professor's comments, you could probably pull out several statements that, removed from their context, would be considered offensive.
For the most widely-known example, look to the O.J. Simpson Trial. Whatever you think of the outcome, you can't argue that race didn't play a factor. You can't honestly say that the law school is preparing its students if it doean't DISCUSS and EXPLORE how race fits into the criminal justice system.
There are scors of law school students who are committed to fighting and eliminating discrimination in Wisconsin society. They're never going to learn how to do this if they can't discuss the topic in straightforward and occassionally brutal terms. That's why people are stepping forward to defend Kaplan.
Did his class actually accomplish this noble goal? I have no idea because I wasn't there. Considering that law school classes are NOT a presentation of ideas, but rather a series of arguments and counter-arguments, I can see how his alleged comments would be presented NOT as an assertation of absolute truth, but as an possible explanation that would be given in a court of law. Just because racism is morally wrong doesn't mean that it's never presented in a legal setting. Any decent lawyer ought to be aware of that and be prepared to refute it.
Can the law school properly prepare students to combat racism without hypothetically exposing them to it? I don't think so. Even if Kaplan had toned down his example, it would not change the fact that such racial stereotypes are presented in actual courts. Kaplan's comments are as hurtful and derogatory as the most offended individuals on this list have claimed, but if you review court records, you'll sadly find that they're not unique.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 3:55pm):
I have read most of these comments and many have stated that "one professor should not reflect on all professors." I agree with this viewpoint, but at the same time we should all keep in mind that this was the same viewpoint Germany had when Hitler was still just "one man." I am not trying to say that Professor Kaplan was or will be in any way like Hitler, but what I am trying to say though is that "one man" may change the world for "all men." The students all stated that the troubling thing about the comments weren't the comments themselves, but the fact that "he believed his comments to be true." Even Nam Dao himself, who believed that Kaplan had used the comments as academic examples to further the students learning and meant no harm, stated that what troubled him was the fact that he "believed the comments." Professor Kaplan isn't just another face in the crowed, he is someone of importance who stands out. What he says will reflect on what his students truly believe. Since he projected these opinions in a way that shows his students that he, a well known professor believes this, these students are more prone to believe in these comments as well. I don't know how each individual one of you think, but when I am sitting in a classroom and my professor makes a comment that he/she believes in, I tend to take it in as a fact. This is why I believe we should correct this issue. Additionally, we as in the whole university, should do any necessary to prevent future problems like this.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 4:11pm):
from channel3000.com:
"Kaplan has said he was trying to make a point about the difficulties the Hmong have faced in assimilating to Wisconsin. Three students who were in the class, including one Vietnamese and one Hispanic, now have released a statement defending Kaplan and saying he was misquoted."
Hey Monica, and pals -- what say ye to this?
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 5:43pm):
To my fellow Hmong students, let's not jump to anything until the professor has a chance to respond. I just don't buy into the theory that professor Kaplan actually said those things even if it was taken out of context. Come on, let's allow the professor to speak first. First off, even my 8 years old knows not to make such statements against a certain group. He was asking me questions about the Africa America month in Feb and he said why someone would do such thing to other race? If my 8 years old knows the difference between the contents of a charater and the color of a skin, a university professor surely is smart enough not to make such statement. Oh and again, I forgot that I was talking to someone who live in a state where the police chief pulled himself over and wrote himself a ticket so you never know..
It's Wisconsin we are talking about here.
To professor Kaplan: You have every opportunity to clarify those statements you made about Hmong men but please remember your time is running out soon.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 6:06pm):
Hey actual law student. I'm an actual PHD candidate. What the hell was the point of your comment? Given the new information that has come out about the context of the comments you should walk over to KaShia and the rest of the gang of seven and tell them to apologize for acting like a bunch of ignorant children.
By the way, we also use the concept of discussion in undergraduate courses, moron.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 6:38pm):
JEFF SCHORFHEIDE could get an award for the photo used with this article.
Anonymous (March 3, 2007 @ 11:53pm):
I also have a problem with the "Magnificent Seven" nickname. Has no one else heard of the original movie, Seven Samurai? Or the seven dwarfs?
Anonymous (March 4, 2007 @ 1:44am):
Honestly I do not want this man to give an apology without us as Hmong students taking his challenge and finding evidence from academic studies to refute his claims, no matter how preposterous and offensive they may be. After all, we are at an academic institution.
Anonymous (March 4, 2007 @ 10:49am):
Professor Kaplan should explain himself and apologize for making a generalized comment about the Hmong people.
Anonymous (March 4, 2007 @ 10:52am):
Professor Kaplan should PUBLICLY explain himself and apologize for making a generalized comment about the Hmong people. The law school administrators should take appropriate actions in stead of disregarding this situation.
Anonymous (March 4, 2007 @ 10:55am):
The "Magnificent Seven" keep up the great work! It takes a man to voice your concerns and courage to speak out against the majority (professors, administators, etc.)!!!
Anonymous (March 4, 2007 @ 11:07am):
Professor Kaplan was wrong for sterotyping the Hmong people. Since the professor held such a long tenure he should have had more sense and intelligence to live up to such a position/title. Educating your law students by sterotyping groups?
Anonymous (March 4, 2007 @ 3:55pm):
Forcing someone to apologize for something when they don't think it's true won't do any good. What has been done, has been done. For every man who speaks up, there are probably several more who have the same thoughts. At least now we know how Kaplan and probably many other people feel about the Hmong population. It's better to know how other people think of your culture than pretending the world is a perfect place.
Knowledge > ignorance (important to Kaplan and to us).
We must not dwell so much on the past and should work at educating others about our culture so it doesn't happen again in the future.
Strong and united are we.
Anonymous (March 4, 2007 @ 4:28pm):
stop running your mouths.
everyone doesnt know much about anything.......
im sorry but thats just the truth,
i dont like the way this situation is getting
handled.
END OF DISCUSSION:
Anonymous (March 4, 2007 @ 7:15pm):
Ummm..... so far...
Kaplan said offensive comments,
not just Hmong students, but the community hurt and offended by comments
Public Forum to discuss issue,
students and community, not just Hmong, came
Kaplan did not
So far, no appology for comments, and no action taken by University towards Kaplan.
Anonymous (March 4, 2007 @ 7:15pm):
Are these comments not as offensive as other comments which have been said by professors who have been punished?
Anonymous (March 4, 2007 @ 9:04pm):
My question is: where is the leadership from Bascom Hall on this mess?
Anonymous (March 4, 2007 @ 11:39pm):
Why would Kaplan have shown up at that shameful display last Thursday night? Every member of the UW community should be embarrassed by what took place. He was wise to stay away.
By the way, the subjective responses of a hearer is not proof of what a speaker said.
Anonymous (March 4, 2007 @ 11:51pm):
I don't know why Badger Herald isn't reinforcing their rule "...please keep your feedback thoughtful, on-topic and respectful. Offensive language, personal attacks, or irrelevant comments may be deleted." After reading all of these comments...about 98 percent of them deserved to be deleted. I have read plenty of people's thoughts or irrelevant "opinions" on here and they all make me SICK!
Anonymous (March 5, 2007 @ 12:03am):
AFter submitting my comment, I noticed that our comments are re-read before they are actually allowed to be posted, is that correct? Well, whoever is reading these comments and allowing them to be posted up is doing a bad job. Like I said, 98 percent of these deserved to be deleted. Please look into that.
Anonymous (March 5, 2007 @ 12:56am):
We have been chased and persecuted by the communists because our leader did not think twice before cooporating with CIA. Did you fly to the mountain of Laos to get us to help you, or did we come to you in the US to ask to help you fight against communism? Kapan is a law professor. He is a racist and prejudice against minority. It does not ake a fool to understand his comments about Hmong.
Anonymous (March 5, 2007 @ 3:01am):
If anyone has time, please read "The Cultural Defense". It is a book by Alison Dundes Renteln and it's a fun read. :-) I highly encourage future lawyers to read it.
Anonymous (March 5, 2007 @ 8:10am):
12:56 - these are precisely the sorts of ethnic stereotypes we are told that it is impermissable to make.
Anonymous (March 5, 2007 @ 10:14am):
You can't be serious. I heard him used Hmong as examples in the past but he didn't really said all those things, did he? Even if it was taken out of context, I still don't believe he actually said those things, publicly at least.
We need to dig to see the Hmong students just made those words up. "Hmong men's only talent is to kill, Hmong men buy their wives and second-generation Hmong wind up in gangs." Someone made these up, some reporter needs to look into it. It's like saying blackmen are stupid and do nothing but smoke dope and get high all day long or white whitemen knipnapped, killed and stored people in freezer for meal like Jeffrey Dahmer.
Anonymous (March 5, 2007 @ 2:38pm):
After reading all the comments on this board, I think this incident has been blown out of proportion. Honestly, I don't think Professor Kaplan meant to hurt anyone. Maybe what he was trying to say came out wrong and some Hmong students are bothered or deeply offended by that.
Come on, guys, let's be reasonable and realistic here. There are some truth to what Professor Kaplan was alledgedly saying. Yes, maybe he doesn't understand the Hmong dowry system, big deal. You and I know that system still prevails to this very day! Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of that system because it is unique to the Hmong people. As far as all second generation Hmong end up in gangs or criminal activites is concerned, well, this is not true. Only a small population of second generation Hmong have ended up like this, really. I agree with some of you, Professor Kaplan should not have generalized, but there is some truth to what he has alledgedly said. As far as Hmong men is concerned, I won't get into that deeply. Throughout Hmong history, whether it be oral or written, there had been stories about Hmong men doing horrible things, for example, domestic abuses. In some cases, the victims died or suffered horribly. Of course, Hmong men can't do this in the states because there are laws against such actions (even if these were to happen in the states, chances are they would do everything possible to hide it from the authority).
Let's face it Hmong people. I am a Hmong-American too, but I do not allign myself with my ethnicity but truth. Just because I am Hmong does not mean that I have to agree with you and be offended alongside with you. Don't get me wrong, I love my ethnicity, but when one is demanding the truth (like some of you have), that is my allegiance: Truth.
Again, I think the case involving Professor Kaplan has been blown out of proportion, but I believe that this matter will be resolved soon. Please hold back your emotions and evaluate everything from multiple perspectives. Let Professor Kaplan explain himself, what he intended. Criticizing him will not result in anything but widening the gap between everyone involved.
Anonymous (March 5, 2007 @ 10:08pm):
You don't have to be Hmong to see that his statements were obviously ignorant, misinterpreted or not, the bottom line is that he said it in class with many students vouching that he said it. That's too bad he didn't use Blacks as an example, Jessi Jackson and the NAACP would be stomping the U like a red-headed step-child.
Prof. Kaplan should retire while he is ahead.
Anonymous (March 6, 2007 @ 2:14pm):
IF YOU'RE DESIRE IS TO HEAR KAPLAN'S STORY, THEN ASK HIM FOR IT! I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR HIS RECOUNT AS WELL. WHY HAS IT TAKEN HIM TWO WEEKS TO REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED? AMNESIA?
Anonymous (March 6, 2007 @ 4:46pm):
This is sad, I don't know what or who to believe anymore. I'm beginning to question the "magnificent seven". Kashia Moua may have had alterior motives. HASA claims no part in it, but most of the people who interrupted the meeting are members of HASA. How ironic!
Anonymous (March 6, 2007 @ 10:14pm):
I totally agree with the previous statement.
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