The Badger Herald

NEWS

Police arrest 4 sit-in protesters

AJ Maclean

Looking for a print version?
Simply choose ‘Print’ on your computer and a printer-friendly document will be generated.

Also by James Davison:

Overnight sit-in ends with arrests (December 13, 2004)
Asian tsunami's devastation extends to college students (January 17, 2005)
Bowl ticket sales kick off (December 2, 2004)
UW names official (December 6, 2004)

by James Davison

Friday, November 19, 2004

Four University of Wisconsin students were arrested and charged with unlawful trespassing Thursday following a sit-in protest at the U.S. Army Military Recruitment Station in University Square.

The anti-war protest, which drew between 35 and 50 protesters outside the office, sought to bring attention to current recruitment practices and how they “focus on people who have little access to opportunities,” according to UW sophomore and protest participant Joel Feingold.

Associated Students of Madison Academic Affairs Chair Ashok Kumar, one of the four arrested, said he and the other protesters walked in and demanded the office be turned into a financial aid office, symbolizing students who have to join the army to pay for college.

“We said we don’t believe people would have to kill themselves to get an education, [which] is a born right,” Kumar said, adding about 45 minutes passed before the police arrived and arrested them.

The protesters were passive and did not struggle when officers placed them under arrest, according to a Madison Police release.

“We were handcuffed and taken out, but weren’t mistreated by the cops,” Kumar said.

Ald. Austin King, District 8, said he applauds the students for their protest, particularly because they did it nonviolently.

“Nonviolent civil disobedience is definitely one of the most important tools that popular movements have used — it’s a great thing they did it nonviolently,” King said. “I don’t think anyone’s going to pretend that this action will end this ridiculous war.”

King added the symbolic request made by the four students was a valid one.

“For a lot of kids … the only way to pay for college is to put their body on the line,” he said.

The crowd outside the office, mostly comprised of UW students, chanted and sang songs, according to Kumar.

Kumar added he and the other sit-in protesters went in with the expectation of being arrested.

“That was the whole point. We wanted to get in there and … wait it out until we got arrested,” he said. “[We wanted] to make a point we will do whatever it takes to get out of this war or shut down [the recruitment station].”

Each student arrested received a citation of approximately $300, Feingold said.

“[They] were the people who were willing to risk exposing themselves to the law,” he said. “It was a real act of courage on their part.”

Feedback

Show all comments

Hide anonymous comments

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 7:32am):

Education isn't a born right, and it wouldn't even be a privilege if it weren't for soldiers, you pompous pieces of ****.

Take it to the politicians. These brave men and women who are going off to die for their country don't need to justify themselves to anyone, least of all you.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 8:05am):

That's terrible! Offering opportunities to those "who have little access to opportunities": what has this world come to?

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 8:09am):

"For a lot of kids ... the only way to pay for college is to put their body on the line"

When is the blood plasma center protest?

Also, let's protest paying subjects for medical research and athletic scholarships.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 8:26am):

Fighting a war for the interest of a nation's people is one thing, fighting it for the benefit of an elite few is quite another matter.. The military of today is a force used as corporate mercenaries, not for the defense of americans. If friends and loved ones of mine will fight (which they will be shortly, if this war continues) for something, it better damn well be something that benefits them and the rest of our society, not something which will do nothing but further propogate global instability and terrorism. I'll support the troops and the military when they actually represent the will and the interest of the general citizenry.

These protesters have my complete support, I hope this trend of direct action continues, after all, it is the great American tradition.
-Lydia Barbash-Riley
barbashriley@wisc.edu

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:03am):

If you oppose the war, fine. Protest the president and congress. Call them all the names you want and burn effigies for all I care.

You'll win no friends but many enemies by protesting soldiers.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:10am):

"an elite few"?

Would that be the same elite that were so depressed with the results of the recent election because of the stupid, ignorant voters who didn't defer to their "bettors"?

PS. The USA oil interests would have been far better served by just making an accommodation with Saddam. Of course that would have left millions of people in virtual slavery to a tyrant who built palaces with money that could have saved lives of his people. I also think that those people would have seen much worse when the sons took over the "family business" - they made Saddam look like a really nice guy.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:17am):

"People sleep peaceably in their bed at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." --George Orwell

Even the "pompous pieces of ****" get this benefit - whether they appreciate it or not.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:29am):

I think the proper remedy is to draft those four and send them straight to Fallujah.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:33am):

Stay tuned for next week's activity: A trip to a military hospital to spit on the wounded!

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:40am):

Pompous? Because they stand up against an immoral war which should, if anything, make us more fearful of the future than ever before?

The people who chose to do this are not disrespecting the troops in any way, in fact they are recognizing them and the Iraqis (especially civilians) who have perished in this war as human beings, not cannon fodder for oil and U.S. Imperialism. Disrespecting the troops would be blaming them for the war, which they and all other protesters do not do. They recognize that the administration is at fault for the war, however they also recognize that recruiters represent the face of that administration here on campus.

-Lydia Barbash-Riley
barbashriley@wisc.edu

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:55am):

When during the sit-in did the protesters ever say the soldiers in Iraq are to blame for the war?

Oh that's right, never.

They were protesting how the military recruits people of generally low SES who can't afford to pay for college. Offering opportunities to people is great, but they shouldn't have to risk their lives to go to college.

Lastly, these protesters were peaceful and did not commit any violence or spit in anyone's face. So stop acting like they did.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 11:10am):

I know plenty of people stationed in Iraq who are over there because they wanted an education, and to defend their country, and who think the occupation of Iraq is immoral, and who are really glad that people back home are STANDING UP FOR HUMAN RIGHTS.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 11:12am):

The recruiters present the option to those with "little access to opportunity." They do not force those people to make that choice. It is up to those individuals to do a cost/benefit analysis and make a decision. I'm all for peaceful protest, but I feel that coming up with ideas and implementing ways to fix the system are more effective ways to spend time and energy than pointing out its inadequacies.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 11:13am):

For those of you who forgot, in accordance with the Constitution of the United States, the President can not declare war, only Congress has the legal right to declare war. I find it funny that people want to blame this war on the President. The President and his administration brought before congress all the evidence that they had at the time and the members of Congress declared war on Iraq. It's amazing how many people wanted to blame it on an individual political party when the halls of Congress are full of members of both major parties. YOUR congressman probably voted for the war, YOU elected your congressman, YOUR congressman is supposed to represent the views of his constituents. If you dont want the war, elect the members of congress out who voted for the war. If you leave them in then you condone their actions in voting for the war.

Also, everyones fear of the draft is unfounded. The U.S. Military is the best military in the world. The primary reason we have the best is that our military are all volunteers- they fight not because they have to, but because they want to. Noone in any orginization agrees totally with the Powers that Be, however you feel, if your job is to do something, whether you think you should be where you are, you are there to do a job, noone who has joined the military since the war made a conscious choice to join. They were'nt held at gunpoint. Noone is forced to join the military.

If you want the war over faster, then you should support the administration in whatever they need to do to get it over more quickly. When you start all the useless protests you drag everyone down, boost the morale of the enemy and prolong the war. Remember Vietnam- The war protesters caused more damage to the morale of the troops and the nation than the Vietcong.

By the way, peace is not the absence of fighting, just because people stop fighting doesnt mean there will be peace. peace is established and maintained by the might of the people responsible for peace. It is human nature to want things and to get them any way they can. The thing that keeps us from stealing and killing as a society is the fear of what consequences will be levied against us if we transgress. The same applies to nations. You won't invade someone if you fear what can happen to you-military defeat for example.
The U.S. Military are the people who keep it so that you can go to the store or walk down the street, or go to the park without constant fear of being involved in some shootout with waring factions. Thank a service member and quit your complaining- do you think you're the first "enlightened" college kid to ever protest a war? Have you ever noticed the majority of the protesters are "enlightened" college kids? Grow up and wake up to reality and find a hobby that is constructive, and stop wasting the time of people who have a job to do.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 11:26am):

Yeah, no one should ever speak up about anything they disagree with the government over. You don't think the war is justified, too bad pussy. Just be a voices cog in the system like you're supposed to.

That's the way a good citizen behaves, otherwise you might bring morale down. And nobody wants to hear about those that dissent, especially when they are mostly college kids who don't deserve to think and speak to begin with.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 11:29am):

I was wondering how many sit-ins at liquor stores have been staged recently to protest the students who have died at colleges due to alcohol poisoning- they elected to drink, were'nt forced, hmm I wonder, or how many have gone on a strike against the use of alcohol on college campus'. why doesnt the administration crack down on it...or is it because the administration tries not to look at it because they might not make as much money if they were "hard" on underage drinking. If your going to blame people for not doing the right thing, start at home and fix your problems before you start pointing fingers at others.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 11:53am):

What was the point in mentioning Mr. Kumar's position as the ASM Academic Affairs Chair? His actions are no way sanctioned, condoned or supported by the ASM and its Council and the mention of his position seems a bit superfluous to this article

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 12:17pm):

We have not "declared war" on Iraq. Congress gave the presidential almost unlimited power to use as he sees fit. It might seem like a minor quibble, but it isn't.

The bigger point here, and the one I think the protesters were trying to make, is that generally, the only people who die when we go to war using a volunteer army are the poor. I think it's a good thing that the Armed Forces provide education, etc. What's more troubling is that most people, including most UW students, can sacrifice NOTHING (not taxes, not time, not sweat or blood) and still support the war. I salute anyone brave enough to join the armed forces; God knows I'm not cut out for it. A nation which does not share its military sacrifices across the poverty line is a nation where rich folks will eagerly support conflict because they pay little, if any costs. This is a systemic problem that we need to think on a little harder--what sort of democracy do we want to have? If there were a draft, I guarantee you that we would not be in Iraq. What does that say about the current conflict?

As for the draft...every realistic study of Iraq (aka RAND, the Army War college, no raving liberals here) suggests we need at least double, if not triple, the number of troops to create adequate stability there. We don't have the bodies to do this. People who haven't been in the armed forces for ten years are being called up. What happens if Iran decides it wants to play with its new nuclear weapons? I hope Israel will deal with them for us, because God knows we don't have the forces on the ground to invade.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 12:34pm):

For everyone who wants a draft, here's what you can do to help: discourage people from volunteering.

Unfortunately for draftniks, I think that this protest pissed off enough people that it was counterproductive.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 12:37pm):

By sitting in at the ROTC the protestors were not 'protesting the troops' as so many of you have said. They were simultaneously protesting this war of greed and the recruitment of the lower classes into a primarily lower class military force.

I, along with an increasing number of students, can barely afford to go to school here. All the money I'm paying with is from loans. I did consider joining ROTC before I started here. Would I have even have considered this if my parents were rich enough to cover my education? Of course not; especially when these wars are fought on false pretenses for the gains of the upper class.

Furthermore, it seems to me that many of you here forget that this nation was created through dissent and civil disobedience in its most extreme form (revolt). Supporting the constitution while simultaneously disparaging acts of protest is hypocritical.

-Matthew Maus
maus@wisc.edu

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 12:48pm):

For the vast majority too chicken ("passive") to walk in the recruiting office, you might be surprised to learn that there was not a single president or congressman inside.

Those soldiers serving as recruiters are people with their own faces, not the collective face of the administration.

By calling anyone the face of someone else, you dehumanize them. That is extremely dangerous territory. It hasn't been that long since "dissenters" in these parts felt justified in bombing and potentially killing people like these recruiters because they disagreed with a political administration.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 12:54pm):

If they weren't protesting the troops, they sure picked an awful location to convey that message.

Dissent and civil disobedience are one thing. Disrespecting troops who have absolutely zero say on policy is quite another matter.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 12:55pm):

Good use of parenthetical quoting, but I doubt anyone would surprised no president or congressman was inside.
And it also dangerous territory to put people peacefully protesting in with those who bomb and kill.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 12:57pm):

"If they weren't protesting the troops, they sure picked an awful location to convey that message."

You have missed the point entirely, good job. They were protesting how people are RECRUITED into the armed services, and the war. Don't confuse the war and the warrior.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 1:13pm):

"an immoral war"?

Yeah, the moral thing would be to have left Saddam in power to continue butalizing the people of Iraq and terrorizing others.

I'm sure the UN would have solved the problem - just like they did in Sudan or the Ivory Coast or the Balkans.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 1:25pm):

The Case For Democracy: The Power of Freedom to Overcome Tyranny and Terror

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1586482610/qid=1100892071/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-3470229-1487055?v=glance&s=books

Sharansky cites the example of post-World War II Germany. Many doubted a true democracy could ever take root amidst the ashes of the Third Reich. But it has. True, most Germans opposed the recent war in Iraq and increasingly side against the U.S. in international policy debates. But so what? Sharansky asks. At least they are not carpet-bombing the whole of Europe.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 1:38pm):

I was unaware that the Marines specifically targeted lower class people. I mean, because I NEVER got a call from the armed forces in my senior year of high school. They NEVER tried really hard to get me, who grew up in the top 5%, to "come in and talk to them." They only target the poor kids to join. Look, I feel for these kids out there, I really do. But the GI Bill is a deal. The deal is you join the army, do your time in it, and then get scholarship money. Joining the armed forces means you may have to fight in a war. That's why they make the deal for the GI Bill, which can be summarized as "If you do the most dangerous job in the world and make it out alive, you will be able to better yourself."

And honestly, while I agree that the war in Iraq is wrong place, wrong time, the bleeding heart hippies on campus would protest US involvement in World War II if they were alive then.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 1:55pm):

Nick Limbeck is cute.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 2:12pm):

As a UW alumna who is proudly dating an active member of the U.S. Army who will soon be deployed, I think this sit-in is a joke. Many in the military have access to opportunity and to assume they are all too poor to afford an education is wrong. I hate the fact that my boyfriend will be deployed for 6-12 months but I know that he joined the Army after September 11 because he wanted to do something to protect our country and I also know that he knew full well what he was getting in to when he signed up. He walked into the recruiters office - not the other way around. Regardless of how you feel about the war and our international policies, the least you can do is support the troops that defend you. For those of you who participated in this sit-in, when was the last time you did something heroic or saved a life? It's easy to criticize others from your pedastal but before you protest the recruiters and the military, think about what they really do - protect your sorry @$$!

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 3:39pm):

I think a lot of people are missing the point of this sit in. They were not protesting the soldiers, they were protesting the tactics in which the army uses to sucker people into joining. True you do get to go to college, but you might also get a limb or two blown off, or worse. Your mom might get a flag instead of grades sent to her. Why would anyone protest the victims, or do you just see the word protest and assume your against it? The army knows their main source of recruitment is in the lower class populations, kids who with no other way to make it to higher education, or even pay for their families enlist. The recruiters promise the world, and the soldiers get to die. When is this nation going to realize killing only leads to more hatred toward out country. What is human life worth to this administration? I for one applaud the sit in and only with I knew about it before hand.

dorfhombre@yahoo.com

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 3:57pm):

Wow lots of errors on that one. Sorry I have to continue, this is the last post I swear. I love how when someone opposes something, the conservative right thinks they should not express themselves. That my friends would lead to what we call a dictatorship, every American has the right to protest what they believe, even if it makes some people feel bad. These protesters are not the liberal elite, they are human beings who notice a situation that needs to be thought about. In this situation it means sit ins to draw attention to the fact that the rich get to decide to go to war, but the poor fight it. To the woman who has a boyfriend in the army, these protesters were not attacking him, they are simply voicing opposition to the government and agencies who put him in harms way. Ok I am done.
Peace.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 3:57pm):

Do you honestly believe that there are people out there who join the military and don't think they might get hurt or even killed? Yes, recruiters glorify the military but guess what - they are soldiers too. We all know the dangers of joining the military and going to war so why do we assume that those who join the military don't? One of the first things they do when they join is prepare a will and a power of attorney in case something happens to them. Recruiters can do whatever they want to make joining the military sound glamorous but these people aren't stupid - they know what they are getting in to. Just because you assume they come from the lower class doesn't mean they live in the dark and are unaware of what is going on around them. Ask any soldier - as scared as they may be to go to war - it is what they signed up to do and most of them are actually excited in some way to be deployed - knowing the risks and all. We can blame the recruiters all we want but at the end of the day, these kids are making their own choices and it's not without several people asking them if this is what they really want to do and if they are sure. Let's give these guys some credit for being able to make decisions about their life like the adult there are. At then end of the day - nobody forced them to join - including the recruiter.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 3:58pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 4:25pm):

Before you go worrying about family and friends going off to die in Iraq, you aught to stop and think, how many people in your city are killed crossing the street, accidents, fights, etc. I bet you would find that the numbers are higher in the civilian sector, people in the military are taught basic first aid, safety, wear body armor, etc. About 1,100 people have been killed in the war in Iraq on the U.S. side of the house. How many people died in Washington D.C. over the last year due to crime, accidents, suicide and general human stupidity? And thats just our Nations Capitol-the HQ of freedom in America. While the losses are tragic indeed, you have a greater chance of getting killed by a drunk driver than you do of getting killed in Iraq. When you actually add how many rounds are being fired, the weapons detonating, explosions and how few people have been killed and wounded....Especially when you view that the average death toll for vietnam was approx 6780 people a year.
kids do have it easier than thier parents and they STILL bitch.
go figure

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 4:30pm):

These actions by these brave young men should push others to do similar actions.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 4:33pm):

I am honored to see students engaged in this courages activism at the federal level.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 4:48pm):

SIT IN........HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA, that was $300 well spent. hope mommy and daddy dont sprain a wrist paying your fine( worried it might harm juniors chances at education).
enjoy the conviction, and the symbolism.. look at the moron who got a ticket, arrested, a fine, and looked like an idiot being dragged from the office.

p.s. nice singing, i heard it, no karrioke for you for 1 year... HA HA HA HA HA

10-1 odds these idots run for office later

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 4:53pm):

"I love how when someone opposes something, the conservative right thinks they should not express themselves."

It been my experience that the lefties are the ones who shout down anyone who does not agree with them (but when you don't agree you are stupid and/or ignorant, so who cares - who that matters that is).

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 5:13pm):

To Lydia Barbash-Riley: What kind of social life do you have with a name like "Barbash"?

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 5:24pm):

ashok is HOT

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 5:27pm):

to the person concerned with losses due to car accidents and other accidental deaths, you imply that 1,100 death of american soldiers is a low number, yet you fail to mention the 100,000 iraqi deaths that go along with it.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 7:18pm):

it must be all that tea they've been sipping

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 9:28pm):

i regret posting my comments here, there is no constructive thoughtful arguments going on. just partisan party bashing.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 9:40pm):

Actually I am going to post my email at the bottom of this because this is an interesting debate. First of all unlike the majority of you, I AM an ACTIVE DUTY SOLDIER who has been deployed numerous times. I find it funny and somewhat upsetting that many of you who do not even KNOW a soldier (other than the one lady who's boyfriend is one) think that you somehow know what we think, how we feel and that it is somehow your GOD GIVEN RIGHT to speak for us. So let's begin with the basics shall we?

First the sit in was dumb, want to protest the war then go to the statehouse not a recruiter's office. Recruiters don't drag folks in as far as I remember (as I have helped recruit a few, although never been a full fledged recruiter). As one person said these folks are not stupid (if they were we wouldn't be taking them) they are fully aware of what their job entails. So tell me how is what we do any more "dangerous" or "played up" than a fireman who also puts his life on the line for a paycheck, or a policeman, or other law enforcement officer?

Secondly, these folks are not joining for "money" for college on a large part. All military officers have a 4 year degree meaning guys THEY HAVE ALREADY BEEN TO COLLEGE!!!! So explain to me how they need money to GO to college again??? In addition a lot are not from poor families at all as I know a lot who have graduated from the finest universities to include Harvard, Yale, etc. Now like I said all Officers have degrees already, but did you know that all enlisted folks over the ranks of Sergeant First Class usually have at least an associates degree. I work with over 30 folks that have not even made the rank of Sergeant yet. Out of those 30, 10 of them have Bachelor's, two have masters degrees and get this one is a DOCTOR of Veterinary Medicine!!!! So kinda blows the "they are joining for college money" doesn't it.

On to the issue of the draft, this always gets college kids scared sh*tless because of the stories heard from leftover 60's professors. Yet who says today's draft if there ever is one, has to resemble the one of 40 years ago? I have yet heard anyone say "We will have a draft, it will be the same way as 40 years ago". Now today's draft would work as such. First no GOVERNMENT HANDOUTS FOR COLLEGE UNLESS YOU SERVE, period. Now does this mean you can't go? No it means that before you get those Pell grants from Uncle Sam you must serve two years in some form of government service be it military or peace corps (granted those that serve military will be paid more). Now for every two years you serve after the intitial two years (and this is where college money and administration will whine and nash teeth) you get ONE FREE year of college tuition. In addition those drafted do not serve in the warzone. No they free up soldiers who VOLUNTEERED to serve instead of manning Posts back here in the US and guarding the country. See a Draft that in no way reflects the one in Vietnam?? Sounds simple huh? But why do we need a draft, hint we don't!!!! Right now military admission standards are high for example must have high school diploma, cannot have a felony conviction, cannot have a drug conviction for certain drugs, cannot have certain medical conditions to include having been on RIDALIN guys how many does that disqualify today?? Now don't you think before a draft we would lower our standards a bit to allow those who even want to join but can't because of these conditions to join??? The problem isn't the military can't get people, the problem is the military cannot get the people of the calibre they want. We have gone a hell of a long way from "UNCLE SAM WANTS YOU" to UNCLE SAM WANTS YOU ONLY IF YOU MEET THE FOLLOWING REQUIREMENTS". For example you must be able to also pass a PT test before joining, you have to score a certain percentage on the ASVAB et, etc,etc. Heck you can't even be Gay know how many have gone to court to stay in for this reason alone??? Now if we can put out Gays doesn't sound like we are hurting all that bad for there to be a draft does there?

As for those being called up read the fine print on the contracts. If you serve 2,3,4, or 6 years it clearly states you can be called back up to EIGHT YEARS after your discharge. This is in the contract folks in black and white so nobody is being called back in some sinister plot by the military. They know this is possible when they join. Also if an Officer and do not resign your commission when your time is up you can be recalled up to THE AGE OF 65 AT ANY TIME!!!! Again in the contract and it is the same if you retire from the military. Seems simple enough these folks complaining need to read the contract they are signing.

Finally, if you want to hold a sit in to get your name in the papers guys do it somewhere were it will make a difference. All these idiots did was keep those who know the risks and dangers and are willing to face them from joining. In short it makes those protesting look like idiots and like they resent the military, not those causing the war. As for the war only benefiting those who are "rich" do you own a car. What is it you put in the tank?? So how does it only benefit the rich again? Don't own a car you say, well then do you eat? (how did the food get to market, get picked, get planted, get sprayed) wear clothes (how do they get to market, cotton get picked etc). How does that coffee you suck down get to market etc. So this war only helps the rich?? Those students would have done much better good to help soldiers if they came up with an alternative energy source other than protesting. Then for those who think the war is only about oil, read the agreement Iraq signed at the end of the first Gulf War (I have, I was there when it was signed) if we wanted Iraq's oil why didn't we just say in the cease fire "Iraq will relinquish all oil reserves to the UN to be divided as they see fit as a condition to end hostilities" seems to me we had em over a barrel then and could have made them sign anything we wanted so couldn't be "just for oil"

Now I am done giving you guys a history lesson etc. You can email me at ronald.pritchett@verizon.net if you wan to discuss the issue further.

sincerely

SSG Ronald Pritchett
US Army

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:35pm):

SSG Ronald Pritchett,

Well said.

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:44pm):

I don't think the war is about oil. I think the war is a stupid, high-risk (high-reward) gamble wherein we create democracy in the middle-east at the point of the gun. Now that we've done it, I hope it works.

My point remains: regardless of who is in the officer core, Ronald, the majority of servicemen are not from middle/upper class families (if you have contrary figures, I'd like to see them). The problem is that because the costs of any war are not distributed among the nation (this include Bush's thought that we should cut taxes even as we spend 200 billion and counting on Iraq alone), so that the same folks who don't join the armed forces, for whatever reason, can cheerfully "support" it without any thought for the risks and costs.

I'm torn--a draft is dumb--the commanders want a volunteer army; but the current situation makes it too easy for us to go to war when the national interest isn't sufficient to justify it.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 1:17am):

Bone, Thugs, and join- the- army. .. Harmony.

"The U.S. Army, 2003: ...'Taking It To The Streets' campaign, a hip-hop flavored tour aimed at recruiting urban Black kids with pimped-out Hummers featuring popular rappers, blaring boom boxes and 'off-da-hook merchandise.'" -- Black Voice News

(And to SSG PRITCHERT: It IS our god given right to speak. We are not speaking for you, but the THOUSANDS of soldiers who are in foreign news complaining about this ILLEGAL WAR.)

But, we were talking about educated people, who could already afford college, and still want to kill, kill, kill.

Show me that the army is an institution where multiple viewpoints are not only tolerated, but encouraged, fostered and praised. I will be dreaming. I like dreaming.

The infantry is a place where you go to learn to OBEY. In fact, there, it is thought of as a virture. Blind obedience. Quite the OPPISITE of the educational goal (at the risk of sounding patronizing, that would be INDEPENDENT, CREATIVE, REASONED, THOUGHT i.e. going AWOL.) Unless you are ONE buddy of SSG Pritchert...

"...a DOCTOR of Veterinary Medicine!!!!"

Or wealthy. You see, the infantry (where most enlisted men serve. Yes, Virginia, there is a back door draft.) is composed of your normal American folk. SSG Pritchert's friends may have a handful of associates and bachelor degrees among them, but this little anecdote says virtually nothing to the STARK FACT of of UNITED STATES MILITARIZING IT'S POOR.

SSG Pritchert says:

"I have yet to hear anyone say, "We will have a draft. It will be the same way as 40 years ago."

He has not been ingesting enough news. His point is well taken that there is (albeit an infintessimally small) chance that this time around, Senators children WILL be sent to kill. But there is no doubt that the United States will continue to send POOR KIDS OF ALL STRIPES, to die for nothing.

Heck, if SSG Pritchert's implication is right, they want to die anyway.

God save us all.

Support the troops, bring them home.

gurushmooroo.blogspot.com

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 12:11pm):

Gurushmooroo, makes me wonder where you get your sources from since I doubt you have spent one day in any military service in the US. So your "knowledge" on such matters is probably about as "extensive" as is my knowledge on UW. But thanks for thinking as most of your "ilk" do that because you major in one subject area, you are now an expert on all subject areas. Now idiot (and I call you that cause that is what you would seem to be when it comes to military affairs). You state that you speak for those that are complaining about this illegal war? Tell me again how it is any more illegal than our war in Kosovo??? Funny I don't remember the Serbs bombing us either do you?? I don't even recall any intelligence that they MIGHT have WMD's but yet we went. So is the war illegal only when a PRESIDENT YOU DON'T LIKE STARTS IT?? As for those troops complaining, funny I have yet to meet any of my peers that actually "enjoy" battle anymore than I have met police that actually "enjoy" being involved in a shoot out. I further recall being asked when I joined "you will defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies foreign and domestic" that is were it ended. Did not continue with "only when the President you support starts the war, only when YOU think YOU are fighting for a just cause, only when it is convenient for YOU and YOUR family and you only have to fight the wars you agree with period." Nope don't recall that at all. So those soldiers "complaining" as you call it knew exactly what they were getting into again when they signed the papers to join. But like many in your "enlightened" generation they probably thought "hey I can get money for college, set on my ass all day and not have to do anything but train on cool weapons systems". Then when they were actually told they had to do their jobs (much like liberals it would seem) that is when they wanted to quit, probably why the military has you sign a contract, nobody wants to go to war and if they could "quit" anytime one popped up I would imagine most would. Just like I have never met a policeman who wanted to be in a shootout either.

Furthermore ideas in the Army and military are highly encouraged (at least until we got our current SecDef it would seem). It is what has allowed us to "advance" militarily. If we did not tolerate ideas and progressive thinking it would seem we would still be fighting with muskets. No progressive thinking, how about in my area along (medicine) portable operating rooms, x-ray machines, hand held ultrasound, treatment for burns, aeromedical evacuation and ambulances, (a known military "idea" that caught on in the civilian sector), antibiotics, Yellow Fever Vaccine, prothrombrin bandages, quikclot (look it up on the internet), and that is just medicine. Now I also remember exploration of 3/4ths what is today your country, building of the panama canal, satelite communication, global positioning, portable computers, the very computer technology that allows you to post such nonsense etc. I think I have proved my point so you want to tell me again how soldiers are a bunch of automaton robots who cannot think for themselves???

Now you are right in one aspect what is not tolerated is once a decision is made (ie we are going to take that building) you usually do not see any dissention in the "order" given what you will see is a myriad of ideas come from soldiers as to what would be the best way to accomplish the goal. What you want see is any dissention from accomplishing that goal. I.E. we will placate Iraq. Not oh well the war is not going well I guess we should leave.

The Infrantry is no more a place where you go to "obey" than is a football team. Furthermore, show me stats that show that the Infrantry is where MOST ENLISTED MEN SERVE what idiot fed you that line of crap. I would submit to you that most jobs in the Army are in the area of Combat support and Combat Service Support jobs. Meaning at one time for every Infrantryman serving we had 4 personnel supporting them.

Go to this site:

http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/04autumn/ohanlon.htm

Read it carefully and tell me how the Infrantry with 49,000 personnel adds up to the number of personnel serving in other areas. So again tell me, "oh great wise military expert", where the MAJORITY of Enlisted men and women serve???

As for the Draft once again show me where it has ever been proven that the US militarizes it's poor. I guess we shouldn't give them jobs then is that the issue. Cause you see if we have the "poor" working, then they don't depend on the US government to give them free handouts like most Democrats and liberals support, so you lose a pretty large voting block there it would seem. Why these folks don't need the largely liberal supported government programs, they now have jobs oops there goes another voting block like soccer moms right??

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 1:14pm):

I love it when this campus talks about reinstating a draft. In fact, there was a vote in the US House a few weeks ago on this very matter. It received 2 votes in support. And liberals call Republicans fear mongers.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 1:14pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 1:17pm):

I love it when the liberals on this campus talk about the draft. In fact, there was a vote in the House of Reps a few weeks ago on this very subject - it garnered 2 votes in support and about 425 votes against. And they call Republicans fear mongers.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 3:07pm):

This and most other war protests at the current time are not about who is worse, liberlas or conservatives, hating the government, disrespecting the soldiers, etc etc.. these protests are about stopping the incredible waste of life and our (and the iraqi's) national resources without due cause. It sickens me how this has become a petty argument over partisan politics where we feel justified in calling each other names and completely disregarding each other's opinions because of some kind of idealogical label. Come on now, we're college students for chrissake, I thought maybe we were above that kind of bullcrap.

And some of us in the anti-war movement do have people very close to us who have served or are currently serving in our nation's military, we just don't choose to use it as somehow giving our argument more legitimacy because we "know" someone in the army.

And if you have further questions about the anti war movement on this campus and might like to know something about it before completely dismissing it as "liberal bullshit", feel free to email me.

-Lydia Barbash-Riley
barbashriley@wisc.edu

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 3:18pm):

Great show of courage. Now I know that I will be TRULY proud to be a graduate student at UW next year.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 3:50pm):

We need a military draft. It will work as follows: all people who complain that there will be a draft because Bush has his head up his ass, regardless of the veracity of that opinion, will be drafted and sent to Fallujah immediately.

For those of you who immediately jump to the conclusion that I must be one of those godawful conservative whores to Bush's agenda, I think Bush is a terrible president and his plan for the war in Iraq is probably the worst war plan ever devised by an American president. I just happen to think that you people are whining about issues you know very little about, without doing any research. Maybe you should listen to the people who are actually in the military and hear what they have to say before jumping to conclusions.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 4:01pm):

Oh I see now this is all about a waste of life and natural resources, thanks for enlighting me. Well how come we didn't see the same opposition to war when it came to the waste of resources or life while in Bosnia/Kosovo/Somalia or Haiti? That's right because when it is a President your side supports the ends justify the means right? I mean those were all "noble causes" sanctioned by the UN Gods whom we must appease right? The hypocrisy by those who claim to be anti-war is the issue, not what "cause" this week you justify your actions on. Anti-war is ANTI-WAR PERIOD, not just when it is an administration you don't particularly care for leading the battle charge or a convenient way for you to "feel good about yourselves" by screaming anti-war chants at the top of your lung and missing class. So again if the Antiwar movement is against the "waste of resources" as you claim how come we didn't see this same movement when I was fighting those battles??? Hell I didn't support those wars, sure as hell didn't support Clinton, but you know what? Again it wasn't up to me to decide where I served because I had signed a contract saying I would go when called.

This would be the same contract those you claim to be speaking for signed. What did they seriously think they would be able to pick the battles they get to serve in? Did they think they wouldn't be called on or if they were not have to go based on whether or not they like the person sending them to battle or thought the war was "just" or not? Hell a person who signs on to be a soldier then bitches cause they are called on to do just that, is like a prostitute who says she/he will screw for money then bitches cause they might have screw someone they are not attracted to. Then why did you get into that profession to begin with dumb-dumb???

Then again those you profess to speak for serving in silence in the military did they ask you to speak for them?? I am curious, have you been contacted by soldiers asking you personally to do anything to stop the war? Have you asked them why they signed on knowing what the job entails or were they mesmerized with $50,000 in college money waived in front of their face. Then aren't the very soldiers you are professing to clain you support guilty of the EXACT SAME DAMN THING as those who started the war whom you oppose. That being GREED!!!!. So tell me how is a person who joins the military solely to get money for college any different than say Halliburton who needs the military to keep them in the $$$????

Or is it something vastly different, do you claim to speak for those "silent soldiers" who oppose the war, not because they can't speak for themselves (which they can, they just can't do it and continue serving). But because it somehow gives you the moral high ground and adds to the egotystical "we claim to be better and morally superior to everyone else" attitudes that the Liberal and Democrats in this country suffer from??

I would dare say most soldiers need a "mouthpiece" on the Left any more so than most African Americans need the Democrats professing to speak for them as well.

I will agree with you on one point, this country needs to sacrifice far more than it has and this is where I have issues with anyone who claims "support for the war" or that they are doing anything to help soldiers. We need to put the ENTIRE country on wartime footing until this is over with period. Yep that means go back to rationing fuel, food, clothing, etc. That means steel and metal drives, electrical blackouts to save energy. It means rationing rubber products, it means instead of pumping out SUV's right and left Detroit should be pumping out up armored humvee's and tanks. It means our borders should have civil patrols on them. You guys turning off your heat in the classes and dorms in Wisconsin winters would do more to end this war than the stupid sit in, however that would inconvenience you right. Then we get to the issue of what this is all about, how can I support/oppose the war and have it TRULY AFFECT MY LIFE AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. But gosh darn it that would mean that those who support the war would have to do something other than wave flags and those opposed to it would have to do a hell of a lot more than hold sit ins and scream childish slogans at the top of their lungs so they can likewise "feel good about themselves for ending a war they don't agree with" without having in reality done a DAMN THING AT ALL.

SSG Ronald Pritchett
US Army (serving)
ronald.pritchett@verizon.net

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 4:34pm):

This War thing is really getting Old. Maybe Dubya will change the Laws so he will be crowned King of the UnUnited States of America. Then the War will go on until all the millionaires and billionaires run out of money.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:09pm):

Judy Turkey Girl with Glasses.. Keep Wearing Your Bracelets... with your love for every heart... A Lemon Meringue Pie...or maybe a pumpkin pie or maybe even a Mince Meat Pie.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:13pm):

I AM SO THANKFUL!! i AM IN THE PERFECT MARRIAGE, THE PERFECT PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:16pm):

Seargant Pritchett-

Where was I for those other wars? Likely in middle or high school. I think the UN is a joke and a tool for US imperialism, and I despise equally the agendas of the democratic and republican parties, neither of them hold any kind of legitimacy for me to stand behind. I opposed Clinton's actions as much as I do Bush's now. It always makes me very, very uncomfortable when the US plays global policeman, however if we are going to do "humanitarian" military action, they needed us in Sudan a lot more than they did in Iraq.

Also, I appreciate the motivation behind anyone's joining the army who wants to legitimately protect their country's citizens, however I think that our current military operation does NOT do anything to protect the US, and if anything is making the situation more unstable and perilous for the united states and how it is viewed by the rest of the world.

A loud protest of the war is part of the process of raising awareness about the fact that there IS an opposition. I would much prefer having everyone sit around in civil town hall style debate about this kind of thing, however when no one on the opposing side wants to get involved in something like that, the best and in my opinion most traditionally american way to go about airing your grievances is by a strong showing of civil disobedience.

I should correct the statement "anti-war" by making it more precise.. we are anti imperialist war, the kinds which the us (and formerly the USSR) have been fighting since the end of WWII.

-Lydia Barbash-Riley
barbashriley@wisc.edu

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:17pm):

We are all so thankfull to Underfien and Carol Towens....

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:20pm):

This thanksgiving meal will be a real hit for me.. now that my mom dad invested the money on swimming pool..................
Mac and Cheese: Did you see the prices at the local supermarkert recently.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:33pm):

I love my Rublivcan Friends: Yhrrtr[
<My dad the teacher, my fatythert in law the ardhikckkkkcccccccccccccccc
Love Bill and Hillary Clinton forever - lovers of Peace,,,, on the midnight train to Wisconsin... I would rather live in his world than.....

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:38pm):

no guns in our house

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:43pm):

I could never have a cigarette or gun in my home. my home is too beautiful.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:55pm):

I just love Carole Owens checkbook --- she will give back any type of money for the University she gives as a Surplus... she is just too generous to the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh. Howe much moiney does Bush S upporter have in her checksbook for the University of University Oshish. Mayber, she is consulting with Dubya people, and making a business of hjer restaurants visits.

A Poor Kid (November 20, 2004 @ 7:02pm):

Got you kids are retarded. How did you get into this university? This is more stupid than the idiots who protested at the capitol after Kerry got owned, and just as stupid as the 4 idiots in West Bend, WI who protested the Iraq war on the corner of Paradise and Main every Saturday. You are idiots and wasting your time, not making a point. There is not a single person who was walking past the Recruitment office who thought to himself afterwards, "Man...they are right." I come from a family of 5 that earns less that $15,000 a year, that is lower lower class. I attend UW Madison through Pell grants and student loans. No one HAS to join the army to go to school, they just don't want to apply for the loans.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 7:12pm):

So most of you were in High school or middle school thus my point, the war in Iraq did not "just begin" as you might believe but is nothing more than a continuation of the first Gulf War in which we should have gotten rid of Hussein then. Let's face it sorry I may say, the war in the Mideast has been coming for a long time. Much better to fight it now when he doesn't have WMD's, than to fight it when he does have them. The failure of the US military to find WMD's is seen as BAD THING. Which shows how out of step the anti-war group is. Can you imagine what would have happened if he would have had WMD's??? Israel would be a smoldering nuclear waste land, as would Saudi Arabia. No this war is a CONTINUATION of the one in Gulf War I. Hussein repeatedly broke the cease fire agreement signed to in that war time and time again. If he disagreed with that one he could have brought it up in the UN or world courts but no he decided to shoot at American planes instead. Thus breaking the "rules" of the cease fire. Do you people think for any minute that if Japan in WWII after signing a treaty ending the war would have kept shooting down American Aircraft, continued with their occupation of the Pacific, we wouldn't have IMMEDIATELY SCRAPED the treaty and resumed hostilities?? That is far more the reason we are now at war with Iraq than is any WMD issue, no matter what the reasons stated for going to war. Yeah I agree we should be in N. Korea, and other areas but again those countries would be a disaster, you take on the countries you can WIN against in warfare not those that will cost you to lose an equal or greater amount of lives than those you are fighting against. That is warfare plain and simple. Everyone wants to put one issue on the war in Iraq some it is WMD's, some it is a humanitarian issue, others it is support of terrorism, others say it is geographical location when it reality it is ALL OF THEM. Sudan has a humanitarian crisis yes, but do they threaten the major economic stability of the world no, do they support terrorism outside their region no, thus we are not there. Frankly I could care less why we are there, but I darn sure am glad we are there now, instead of 20 years down the road as we very well would have been eventually.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 8:26pm):

anyone noticed how all the army ads all have black kids in them? yeah, that's right, all the f*cking baby killers are going into the inner cities, finding the kids whose dads have been thrown in jail by racist cops, then recruiting them to go fight rich white dude's wars. real fucking peaceful. they offer them tens of thousands of dollars and awesome videos of glorfied video-game violence then they send america's brown people to fight iraq's brown people while halliburton and all those other f*ckers buy another god damn yacht.

think how many kids from ghettos could go to school if we spent 1% of the cost of this war on scholarships. think how many quality, well-trained teachers could be brought into areas where teachers often don't even have college degrees? if the current administration, or ANY administration for that matter actually gave a sh!t about the poor people of america they wouldn't be spending $100,000 on a single fu*cking cruise missile.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 8:43pm):

A recruiter is a Soldier. Many recruiters have served in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. Whatever happened to honoring our veterans? The place to protest war is at the office of your senator or congressperson. The recruiters, Army administration, the military, do not make the laws. They don't choose the wars. Think about how to appropriately and effectively "market" your message folks. After all, you are all working on becoming the great thinkers of tomorrow.

Also, recruiters don't trick people into enlisting in the Army. Who are you to judge the private decision of someone interested in the military (for whatever reason)? Why do you berate the military as a career? Who are you to judge the decision to join? Is everyone in the military a poor, lost soul in need of your salvation? Give me a break.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 8:48pm):

Who wears wool sweaters over long sleeve shirts on a 60 degree day? Bet they all smelled.

2003 uw grad (November 20, 2004 @ 8:52pm):

Excellent job calling the students retarded while your response is full of typos. It is admirable that you have earned the opportunity to go to school at Madison despite your family being "lower lower income." That is why programs such as the Pell Grant exist. However, if a family makes slightly more money, often they make to much to qualify for similar programs, while not making enough to cover the expenses for school. For many of these students, the armed forces is an attractive alternative. While you are right in saying they are not forced to enlist, you are wrong in attacking them since their goal was simply to educate and draw attention to other financial aid options like those you have selected.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 9:16pm):

I find it amazing that so many students are always congratulating themselves on being so smart, intellectual, and forward thinking. Give me a break. Just because you get into college doesn't mean you're smart. So please, for your own sake, get over yourselves.

And on a side note, people like Staff Sergeant Pritchett have sacrificed more for this country than many of the people who've posted messages here can ever realize. Anyone who attacks a man who has lived his life in service to our country deserves the utmost respect, even if you do happen to disagree with his opinions.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 9:21pm):

There are no flashy advertisements on television for financial aid. "Insert Bombs over Baghdad riff here", fade into unnaturally muscular slacker.
"Want the opportunity to go to college for free, to expand your career options, join the army!!! Bombs over Baghdad!!!!!!" "We won't tell you your other options for earning money for college, because we need you more than you need us, but we will never say that.......bombs over Baghdad"

Gurushmooroo.blogspot.com

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 9:22pm):

Correction, that last sentence is supposed to read:

Don't attack a man who has lived his life in service to our country as he deserves the utmost respect, even if you happen to disagree with his opinions.

Last thing I wanted to convey was respect for the anti-war movement who have sacrificed so very little to make themselves feel good and morally superior to the rest of us poor dumb folk.

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 11:05pm):

Oh yeah I wondered when the race card would be thrown into the deck I mean afterall it is the trump card used by Democratic, leftist liberal everytime they find themselves losing an argument isn't it? First of the reason those Ads contain African Americans is the same reason they contain white kids and Hispanic kids because we are trying to show that the military is open to all races and that we have probably come further than society in destroying racial stereotypes and quotas. The fact you call us "Babykillers" shows you have had your head stuck in your ass (or in your case someone else's ass) since the 60's. Here's a hint for you MORON every organization from the Rand corporation on down has said that the over representation of the African American in the military is a STEREOTYPE THAT HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE YOUR DECADE (60's) and has never been proven. Leave it to the left to gripe because first the US military had African Americans serving a disportionately low numbers in segregated Army. Then turn around and b*tch when the same African Americans have made great inroads in the military. If we are so rascist as you claim tell me how we twice have had an African American two positions away from the highest office in the land??? Tell me how Barack Obama is now the most likely potential Democratic candidate to run in 2008???

Think how many of those Ghetto kids could get an education if we cut military funding. Yep and at the same token assh*le think how many of those Ghetto kids would be in those same prisons with their fathers if the military did not give them the option to better their lives. Rascist military shows how little you know dumb*ss. In one clinic I worked in alone we had a Haitian NCOIC, a Hindu Colonel, a Southern Citadel graduate 2nd in command, a Jewish Doc, a French nurse, a Native American sergeant, 2 African American Physicians and an African Physician, and one Vietnamese Physician who's family was part of the "boat people" rescued in the early 70's. Gosh damn sounds like the good ole boy Whitey takes everything while African Americans and other "minorities" serve a subservient role doesn't it.

Yeah we could spend millions on education to get them out of the ghetto by cutting military funding, I agree would be great. Only to have those schools blown to bits by the next bunch of Arab terrorists who feel they need to blow up a building. Amazing how it is the American military that is rascist while ignoring the fact our soldiers join on their own accord (unlike those forced at gunpoint to fight in Iraq want to talk draft that is about the most extreme damn draft I think you could have). We do not routinely torture women for going outside without their faces covered (or in this day and age any other part of their bodies), exterminate a whole ethnic culture because we don't agree with them (Kurds and Marsh Arabs), stone women for having sex out of wedlock, routinely gang rape women, kill our homosexuals and transgendered population, but yet our Army is the rascist, domineering, one?? Come again maybe your head got filled with cr*p from being up your *ss for so long? I don't know but it would seem we have one of the most racially diverse militaries in the world idiot.

Also spoken like someone who has yet to see the world if our poor people are so bad off why do the largest majority of those in poverty here own a car, live in a house of some sort, have a television, telephone, clothes, etc. I would submit to you that America's poor are some of the "richest" poor of any country in the world bar none. Really don't hear of father's in America selling their daughters into sexual slavery so they can afford to feed the rest of their family very often in the good ole USA for example but very often true in Asia and even Eastern Europe and Africa. Don't see many 10 year olds in America working in factories from sun up to sundown either to support their families do we??

In addition what is the leading cause of crime in those Ghetto's? Probably be drugs, not poverty. Now who was the world's largest exporter of Opium and Heroine. That's right stupid ass, Afghanistan. Now don't you think those poor African Americans in the Ghetto (and funny how it is always the left that groups African-American and Ghetto in the same sentence, why can't they also live in the surburbs they tend to do just that in military housing areas) have a vested interest in making sure such drugs from AFGHANISTAN don't reach their areas??

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 11:19pm):

Why is that people no ability to form a complete sentence are always saying these ridiculous things about people who act from their heart and stand up for what is right about humanity. Congrats on your peaceful resistance from Seattle, WA --the other UW :)

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 11:22pm):

Ashok Kumar. What nationality is he? Doesn't look or sound American. In any event, he's another freeloader who thinks the taxpayer owes him a free education, and that life owes him freedom and every opportunity with no strings attached. What a loser. Get a job, bum!

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 11:58pm):

ashok is obviously of indian decent ... india is the largest democracy in the world -- i am of italian decent. i graduted from wisco ... my forebearers fled fascism in order to give me the best opportunity possible (and because they were hungry) ... my father was a marine, my brother was navy jag ( jd wisconsin) ... my nephew is in iraq (3rd infantry usarmy) ... in january there will be elections in iraq ===> democracy ... some things come full circle

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 12:24am):

SSG Prichard = hero

Lydia:

"A loud protest of the war is part of the process of raising awareness about the fact that there IS an opposition."

You people aren't protesting the war-- you're protesting the troops and recruiters doing their jobs.

My boot camp platoon had an accountant, a graphic designer, kids with degrees, kids with diplomas, blacks, whites-- people from ALL WALKS OF LIFE.

People who want to join the military should not have you impend on their right to do so.

I can't WAIT until I finish college in May and get the privlidge to go back to active duty.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 12:27am):

I hope they do have a mandatory draft after high school so all these liberals can get a taste of how great our military is and the great work we do.

The only thing is I don't know if I want your lazy, unmotivated, pathetic butt in my Corps.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 1:22am):

Ashok, i wish i could have been there with you. I'm in Hong Kong now, but i'll be back in the fall. keep the movement alive!

Erin

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 2:17am):

I think our military IS recruiting the wrong type of people. They DO recruit the poor, those who have not performed well in school, those with little other hope. The Armed Forces offers them hope, but they get locked in for several years at a time.

I think we would be better off we changed recruitment methods. Why demand that a person who signs up MUST committ 3-4 years of service? Why not ofer a 'trial enlistment' so people can see what the military is all about before signing up for the longer commitment. I would think that would encourage more to at least give the military a shot without committing immediately. If they feel the military is a decent option, they can then enlist for a longer period.

We aren't doing ourselves any favors the way we recruit now. We end up getting the Lindee England's of society.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 2:32am):

I think these students who were arrested would do good to join the Reserves or National Guard and serve their country. My son graduated from high school with honors and had scholarship offers, but wanted to serve our country, and right now is an 18 year old Pfc in the United States Marine Corps.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 7:39am):

I takes real courage to defend one's country.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 9:00am):

I was present for this event and one thing I have to say is that it was disappointing to see the reaction when an Army Recruiter who had been out of the office, came to the door of the office only to be told to leave by the recruiters inside. The people were happy because they thought they stopped someone from joining the Army.

My question is why do they feel it is ok to make someone elses decision for them. If someone wants to join the Army, do they really feel it's right to deny that person that opportunity? Aren't they then oppressing US Citizens (because they know what's best for me) because they think that the government is oppressing citizens of another country?

So really ... who is right and who is wrong?

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 10:35am):

Why can't we offer shorter enlistments, 2 years isn't short enough? Here is why Basic training 13 weeks and looking to make it 16 so we can teach more about urban combat, escaping attack while in a convoy, and IED recognition, then we go on to other schools. Let me give you my example as an Army 91WM6 or LVN (practical nurse). Basic Training is 13 weeks then off to AIT for EMT school another 16 weeks, then off to a hospital for practical nurse training a FULL YEAR!!! That is why in many instances we cannot offer shorter enlistments by the time we spend the money to get these guys trained up, they would be gone. That is just the technical training in most instances that person who comes out of training needs at least a full year to become a total integrated part of the unit they are assigned to and can function as a team member of that unit. Yeah we could offer shorter enlistments which would mean less training which would equal even more deaths. In addition, there is a way out of the military in BASIC tell the Drills you want out period. You can leave on a failure to adapt charge which is basically a General Discharge if you "change your mind" . Now will they make your life a living hell if you try? Probably why because it takes thousands upon thousands of Dollars to get a person just into Basic training that is YOUR MONEY (taxes) only to have them say "oops I made a mistake" I don't want to be here, then again why did you sign the contract to begin with?? Besides how many do you think would stay in in a trial enlistment of Basic training when you have someone telling you what to do, how to do it, and screaming at you 24/7?? Not many would stay past the first two weeks.

The recruiting the poor crap is just that crap, how would you suggest we recruit then? Let's see most college campuses in the nation forbid recruiters from even getting on campuses or getting ahold of student lists. When they are allowed on campus they are harrassed by groups such as that above. Plus many college students like many here somehow think only the uneducated, underpriveledged, lower class join the military thus it is somehow beneath them to join. High school is no different, how many high school counselor's do you know that pushed the military as a viable option?? No they push the kids into college (even though many are not even ready for college and drop out after the first year lacking the majurity to continue, unlike those who have some military experience first usually excel at college I wonder why discipline and majurity perhaps) instead of military service. Unless that person has no other options then they might tell them about military service. But let's face it the high school's aren't pushing their top students into the military.

I agree there exists a huge disparity between those who serve and those who don't but take a look here. If I was to step on UW in uniform and ask college students to join the military I would probably be ridiculed if not threatened. I think it is abhorent it is those whom America has offered the least opportunities to out there protecting the country with their lives while those who are "born with silver spoons in their mouths" do the least to protect a country that has in away given them opportunity to excel beyond any expectation. Why should an inner city kid who grows up in a crime filled public housing ghetto or one off a hard working barely able to make ends meet West Virgina farm be called on to serve more so than say a fortune 500 company executive's son or daughter?? Especially when the 2nd has so much more to lose financially and socially than say the first?? It is why I for one support some type of draft. You see it isn't the son's and daughters of Senators and President's serving that will make us look twice at getting involved in some of these wars. But I guarantee you when the son's and daughters of some of these senators biggest campaign contributors have to serve you will see a huge and different way we fight wars or get involved in them. It is why I work in the medical field of the Army because I feel why should a person whom America has offered the least opportunity in life have to give that life, so another can party and get drunk off daddies money sitting at some university somewhere?

But you see they are priveledged and do not have to join. Colleges and high school counselors push college and education, never the military and never tell the person that they can both get an education and serve in the military. Heck we have programs to send enlisted medical personnel to college to become nurses and Physician's assistants and even physicians. A large portion of our Doctors used to be some of the enlisted "underpriveledged kids" we are discussing here.

What they fail to realize, these privelidged few who protest the military, is if it wasn't for these other kids WANTING to join it would be THEMSELVES IN THE MILITARY BY WAY OF A DRAFT. Let's face it the country will always need and always have a military period. It is up to us to decide how we want to fill those boots, do we want to take folks who want to join and sweeten the deal a bit by offering incentives for them to better themselves which is what anyone wants out of life. Then we could try the other option draft those who don't necessarily want to be there, don't want to do the job, will rebel against the discipline and authority and have the hollow Army we had right after the Vietnam war, the choice is ours. We need to make military service just as honorable as going to college and make those in college wake the hell up and realize that by simple virtue of getting an education does not mean they are some upper class royalty who can look down upon those who serve in the military. That the military is just as honorable a profession (if not more so) than being a company executive, a lawyer or physician (of which the military HAS ) in some company somewhere.

Now for those who say "but we would join if they would just pay better" remember that the next time you scream for the military budget to be cut and remember where the largest part of that budget goes. That's right guys to pay those serving. So go ahead and scream for military budget cuts so we can once again cut the pay of those serving, cut the money for equipment needed to keep them alive etc. Which is why I advocate a wartime economy as we had in WWII. Want this war to be over then protest the fact we are fighting it without having to ration gasoline, meat, sugar, rubber, etc as they did a few generations ago. Want the war over walk to class instead of driving for once, turn the heat off in the dorms or classrooms for a day. Don't fly home for the holidays (yeah that will hurt but how much more so than those serving away from families on the holidays). Hell we don't even sell WAR BONDS today. All of this would do more to see the war come to an end than 4 stupid idiots sitting down in a recruiting office to protest who we recruit.

Yet you did not see these same college educated, spoiled, materialistic, "born with a silver spoon in their mouth" persons ENLISTING THEMSELVES did you?? I ask what would have been the better protest against how we recruit? Them protesting we "enlist the poor" or these rich spoiled assh*les ENLISTING THEMSELVES to stand in solidarity with those we have enlisted. To gripe and complain about those we enlist, or to enlist right along with them and show they are also willing to shoulder the burden in keeping our country safe and secure and protecting the lifestyle and country they have a HONOR of living in. Because as one of those did white guys said a long time ago Our country be she right or be she wrong, SHE WILL ALWAYS BE OUR COUNTRY. That my friends is what the military is about and why we serve.

SSG Ronald Pritchett
US Army
ronald.pritchett@verizon.net

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 10:42am):

oops that is "dead white guys"

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 2:27pm):

No one side in this situation is willing to listen to reason. The liberals hate the war, hate the military, and the conservatives think the liberals should be shut down. Here is my dilemma. It is our right as citizens to join the military, but there are ways in which the military gets people to recruit that is inappropriate, and there is a lack of other visible options for people struggling during this awful time of the bush presidency. Should the military be an option? Yes. Should the military office be right on campus more visible than a financial aid office? No. Should the military be allowed to sell themselves like a product? No. Should we condemn those who join as stupid? No. Should we try and make alternatives more widely known? Yes.

I am a little tired of checking this badger herald page but I am drawn to it. I want to know why this sort of reaction comes from one action. I now think that the protesters were a little wrong in that they are protesting the wrong thing. They should be protesting the UW college system to make financial aid a more openly available and visible option, not the Army, although the army should not stoop to levels of consumerism to sell itself. Because as Americans we have the right to enlist for our country. Now don't get me wrong, I hate this war, and I despise some, not all, of the ways in which the military recruits. This is a free country; it is not up to the Army to become less visible, its up to the other options to become more visible. After all you cannot take guns away but we can sing louder than them when we all sing together.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 2:42pm):

I was impressed with the Janitor from Montana who left a huge amount of money to support the college he worked at. He was not a hypocrite. He didn't contribute money to the War -- but left it toward something he believed was pure and right. Too bad Dubya and Pat Robertson don't make me feel so generous. I would never even want to bake them a pretty Pumpkin Pie. My money is made honestly. I would rather have less than sell my soul to the devil. Hillary Clinton has said, "War is Hell." Maybe, we don't need War or the Devil...
This reminds me of a logic class I took in college... Sorry, Professor Kelly!!!!1

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 2:45pm):

What kind of koo koo koo pjuff are uyou. You are a f+cking liberal peice of sh+t.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:00pm):

I am totally depressed that Kerry has lost. Maybe he could have spoken with other world leaders on an intellectual level and worked on some type of negotiations. Blowing up countries hasn't worked well for America. Eventually, after we have ruined their families, situations and lives we will bring them to America so they could become Americans. Some are bitter and do not appreciate our aggressive techniques. Remember how Americans felt on 9/11? Think what would have happened if we were attacked by aggressors like the United States. We would have been left with a huge disaster - waiting for them to come save us and transport us to another country. It is reassuring to know other countries Love the United Aggressive States of America.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:02pm):

So now we have the way the military sells itself as the problem?? How? How may I ask is this any different than college logo's eblazoned on shirts, mugs, tv screens, pillows etc?? I would dare say that colleges sell themselves with consumerism far more than the military ever has or will. What are the statistics on someone being taken in by colleges by the consumerism only to drop out after their freshman year compared to those who drop out of the military after one year?? Show me those statistics, care to take a guess which one is higher?? How is the military more to blame for giving kids an education who are willing to sell their "bodies" than is a college who gives someone a 4 year scholarship not because they made good grades but because they can play football!!! Yeah there is a career progression opportunity for them (how many NFL teams are there??) That's right "come whore yourself out to us playing a sport so we can MAKE EVEN MORE MONEY selling tickets to those willing to watch you play. However suffer an injury where you cannot play for us and don't think for one moment we will continue to pay for your education. At least the military continues to care for those who at least suffer injuries when working for them.

Why shouldn't the military be allowed to sell itself as a product? Hell the colleges do it FAR MORE SO. Yeah the military goes after the poor maybe, why not? It is not like any of the materialistic, spoiled, rich, bratty college kids are jumping at the bit to join are they? So why should we spend taxpayer money trying to recruit those who have no INTEREST WHAT SO EVER IN JOINING AND THUMB THEIR "ROYAL" NOSES AT THE THOUGHT OF JOINING than going after a sure thing. Remember it is YOUR money we are spending.

Do I think they could at least appeal to the more patriotic minded individuals to join and lay off selling educational benefits sure, do I think they could "romantize" the lifestyle a little less, you bet. Just like colleges could show the amount of Date rapes that happen at their much touted Spring Breaks, just like they can show how many students don't make it past their freshman years, just like they could show how many of their students with degrees actually GET hired by major corporations. How many crimes occur on campus, how many riots they have during "major events" like Halloween at your school. I think they should actually PAY college athletes crap how much money do they bring into the college for what??? An education that may, MAY get them a good job when they are done playing sports?

So again tell me how we recruit is any different from the ways colleges and universities across the nation do it by playing up the positives and down playing the negatives.

Show me any college campus that has a recruiting office on it? Name one, hell it was only recently we had to threaten colleges (rightfully so) with taking away FEDERAL FUNDING if they didn't allow on campus recruiting. Boy did that make the money hungry greedy bastards on campus wake up and realize what was going down didn't it?

So tell me how is "join up with us and if you survive the war we will give you money for school". Any different from "come and go to school with us after paying $50,000 and still having no job guarantee, spend your nights studying to the wee hours of the morning or getting drunk off your ass, and only if you get through the depression, massive attempts at suicide or survive with your body intact after playing sports for us, you might just get a job"?

As for "hating the war" how much more so than us, THE ONES ACTUALLY HAVING TO FIGHT IT??? Think we like it?? No but unlike you we are willing to end it by making sure we aren't back in 10 years fighting it again (see Gulf War 1 and how it ended, why we are back today). Than saying oh well 1000 people have died (thankfully we didn't have you all around during the Normandy invasion,) let's cut our losses and go home.

As for the page, heck this has been one of the best debates, with input from all sides this rag of a paper has seen in awhile. I would hope they would allow the dialog to continue.

SSG Ronald Pritchett
US Army
ronald.pritchett@verizon.net

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:05pm):

Once again I WILL SAY B+TCH, YOU ARE KOO KOO KOKOPUFF. LIBERALS LIKE YOU ARE A DIME A DOZEN. I WOULD RUN OVER YOU WITH MY CADILLAC AS SURE AS I WOULOD SPIT IN MYOUR HAPPY FAT LOVING FAT UGLY FACE

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:12pm):

Furthermore I believe it was William Tecumseh Sherman who first said "War is Hell" if Hillary Clinton is the flipping EXTENT of your college education when it comes to American history, makes me wonder what the hell you are paying 50,000 a year for.

As for the person who said he "makes his money honestly" would like to know how he makes it at all had it not been for the military giving him the freedom to make it.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:19pm):

i am now mad as hell. i was a veteran in the korean war and i blew people to smitterenens like little tiny does in the feoid. i was the biggest man that ever was thanked for all i did every day in korea

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:23pm):

Right on brother. i was in nam pensiltown and blew so many kids and bleperes to smittherjlka;kljfds. i loved every minute of that type of bs.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:23pm):

Right on brother. i was in nam pensiltown and blew so many kids and bleperes to smittherjlka;kljfds. i loved every minute of that type of bs.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:26pm):

I AGREE THE LIBERAL B+TCH IS KOO KOO KOKOPUFFS!

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:33pm):

i WAS IN THE PENISL. (ANITI CONDI DISTRICT WHEN i BLEW ALL THOSE KIDS TO SMITHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHS(
I DID MY JOB WELL. GUNS ARE MY FRIEND.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:35pm):

BLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UPBLEW THEM UP

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:37pm):

suck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e sucksuck e suck e suck

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:38pm):

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:43pm):

YOU ARE A GIRLY BOY OR A LOSER.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:47pm):

i agree he is a girly boy or a loser. he has no idea how much road rage is escaping my job to Canada.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:51pm):

he is a girly boy or loser 9LIBERAL6 HIS WIFE THINKS HE IS A PRETZZEL... THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE DON'T LIKE OUR SYSTEM.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:55pm):

YAH RIGHTY, HIS WIFE THINKS HE IS A PRETZELLL OR A TOP GUN AVAILABLE ANYH TIME WHATSOEVER.. GO FPRGET ABOUT THAT . MY WIFE CAN ROT IN HELL TONIGHT SHLE IS THE DEVEIL AND ALWAYS MAKES ME RIEAT THE RIGHT FOODS I WASAW TH DEER BUT DID NOT SHOOT IT.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 3:58pm):

Under "add a comment" it says "offensive language, personal attacks, or irrelevant comments may be deleted." I don't see that happening. I also think some people are making too many assumptions. The main point of the sit-in was to protest the war and should be taken as such. I highly doubt the protesters are actually against our troops.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 4:00pm):

RIGHT ON BROTHER WE ARE WATCHING EVERY BEAUTIFUL BODY INSIDE THIS BAR. WHAT A BODY AT DAKOTA WISCONSIN, SHE CAN SWITCH MY PLATE ON.. OH, LOOK AT HER CL{++++++++++++++++++++) mY WIFE WILL NEVER FOREGIVE ME THAT I SAW HER b+++++++++

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 4:24pm):

RIGHT ON BROTHER, I SAW HER - SHE GOT ON THE FLOOR AND LOOKED LIKE MY WIFE DID WHEN SHE WAS HAVING A BIRTH EXPERIENCE EXCEPT SHE WAS BEAUTIFUL AND FLIPPED OVER IN MID EXPERIENCE AND ACTUALLY ATE A PIECE OF CAKE.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 4:27pm):

RIGHT ON BROTHER, THE RED HEAD IS TOTALLY BEAUTIFUL... LOOK AT HER TITS ... IF I WOULD KILL A DEETR IT WOULD BE HER... SHE IS BEAUTIFUL

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 4:30pm):

IN DAKOTAQ WE HAVE SEEN THE MOST VBEUTIFUL SIGHT ... MOW WE WILL GO HOME WITH OUT GUNS AND SHOOT A DEER TOMORRW

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 4:38pm):

YES BROTHER, THE RED HEAD IS THE BEST, WE WILL BE BUYING A NOPTHER ROUND AND THEN TOMOROW WE WILL GET THE DR GUNS OUT AND SHOOT THE GUN -M HE WILL NEVER BE MY DOCTOR AGAIN NOW THAT I HEARD HE DEER HUNTS. THIS IS WHEN THE BLOOD MONEY SETS AS HOPEFULLY AS ANY NURSE AFTER THE VIETNAM WAR. HOLD MY HAND.. AFFINITY IS PERMANENTLY AFFECTING MY LIFE STYLE... NO CIGS, NO ANY PROBLEM.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 4:42pm):

WHAT HAPPENED AFTER 9/11 (dubya was a loser until that date).. some of his key people are now living in Mexico. We have geared our whole US lose on 9/11. LET US TAKE A CLOSER LOOK. WE ARE ALL LOST IN SPACE NOW.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 4:45pm):

YOU ARE RIGHT LIBERAL B+TCH, BUSH DID DO THE TOWER DESTRUCTION; HE HAD TO DO IT BECAUSE NO ONE IN THE WORLD RESPECTED DUBYA.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 4:47pm):

YOU ARE RIGHT LIBERAL B+TCH, BUSH DID DO THE TOWER DESTRUCTION; HE HAD TO DO IT BECAUSE NO ONE IN THE WORLD RESPECTED DUBYA.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 5:01pm):

wHEN YOU GO BLACK.. YOU WILL NEVER GO BACFK TO A LIBERIAN...
god bless robertarians.........

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 5:06pm):

Bakers are my worst enemies. Cancer reboks does nothing with me

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 5:09pm):

This thanksgiving meal will be a real hit for me.. now that my mom dad invested the money on no college or swimming pool..................
Mac and Cheese: Did you see the prices at the local supermarkert recently? What, were they crazy???

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 5:11pm):

I agree with you. My husband is hunting for a deer because we can't afford supermarkets any more.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 5:13pm):

I agree with you. We will be buying all our christmas presents at Goodwill this year.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 5:16pm):

Yes girl, we will be buying all our presents at second hand sales this year. The health insurance has gone up. We need to support the doctors. We will not buy anything for the holidays this year.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 5:19pm):

We are buying our children health care and dental care this year. They don't need any presents at all. We will be eatting Macaroni and Cheese.. the health food.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 7:40pm):

A perfect example of the level of maturity by most of our "illustrious" college crowd. I sometimes feel as if Al Qaeda hit the wrong target. Want to increase the IQ level of America hit a college campus.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 9:23pm):

How come the same dumbfucks who protest the military recruiting poor people are the same people who are against compulsory military service, or in the case of John McCain's bill, compulsory service to your country in general?

Don't they get it? NOTHING in life is for fucking free, there is some social and economic cost for everything, despite what your mommy and daddy spoiling your stupid monkey ass so much that you become delusional about the way the world works.

These people would protest having to wipe one's ass after shitting if someone told them it was oppressive.

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 9:27pm):

4 MORE YEARS OF THIS STUPID HICK! IM SORRY I VOTED ''KERRY'' IN CALIFORNIA!

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 11:25pm):

Dont you tree hugging hippies have anything better to do except to protest at an U.S. Army Recruiting facility. I suppose it is more constructive then sitting on state street playing bongo drums. HAHAHAHA

Anonymous (November 21, 2004 @ 11:26pm):

way to go ashok!

Anonymous (November 22, 2004 @ 3:44am):

University should be free like in France and other European country, it is one of the most important thing in a REAL democraty, but american don't seem to understand this, since you reelected this liar/dictator/magalomaniac !

Anonymous (November 22, 2004 @ 3:46am):

You american will soon belong to a third word country !

Anonymous (November 22, 2004 @ 3:25pm):

I just love it when people attack typo mistakes. It serves as a very good diversion to actually making a real point. Kids who enlist are not stupid. They know what they are getting into. Simple as that.

Anonymous (November 22, 2004 @ 3:38pm):

wHAT A BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY. wHEN I PRESSED THE BALLOT BOX ... IT ONLY WENT THROUGH ON THE RIGHT SIDE.

Anonymous (November 22, 2004 @ 3:39pm):

Yes, my beautiful grandchild was killed in the War. When I went to Vote, I had to leave before the end, the line was 8 hours long.

Anonymous (November 22, 2004 @ 3:41pm):

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SAYING THAT. MY KNEES GAVE OUT WHEN I WAS ONLY 6 FEET FROM THE ENTRANCE TO THE VOTING BOOTH.

Anonymous (November 22, 2004 @ 3:43pm):

you have not the half of it. I filed an absentee ballot and heard it was not being rewarded as a real vote.

Anonymous (November 22, 2004 @ 3:46pm):

THIS IS SOMETHING I HAVE BEEN TALKING TO MY PEOPLE AT THE LEGION HALL ABOUT. WE COULD NOT VOTE AT OUR LEGION HALL.

Anonymous (November 22, 2004 @ 3:48pm):

At my legion hall we could have helped Veteran's get the vote out but we live in a Republican District.

Anonymous (December 12, 2004 @ 6:49pm):

Published on Friday, December 10, 2004 by CommonDreams.org
Recruiting At Any Cost
How The Pentagon Keeps The New Recruits Coming

by Natasha Saulnier

With the number of American casualties in Iraq increasing daily for a war that now even Sec. of State Colin Powell believes is lost, it may come as a surprise that recruitment rates are still up. The Pentagon reports that for the year 2004, its 15,000 recruiters have already recruited over 212,000 people, surpassing its goal of 210,000, at a cost of $ 14,000 per recruit, and Marine Staff Sergeant Mark Ayalin at Quantico Recruiting Command confirms, "Recruitment figures haven't been affected by the situation in Iraq at all."

This triumphant stance conceals a more grim reality. In its 2003 Government Accounting Office (GAO) Report, the Pentagon stated that "convincing young adults to join the military has become more difficult." At the same time, the Department of Defense's budget for recruiting reached a record $4 billion for the fiscal year 2003 according to a Government Accounting Office report, and the portion of that budget devoted to advertising nearly doubled in the past five years, from $299 million in 1998 to $592 million in 2003. In the same period, the Army alone increased its advertising spending by 73 percent to $197 million, and the Air Force the same budget by 395 percent to $90.5 million. The advertising cost per new enlisted recruit has nearly tripled from $640 in 1990 to almost $1,900 last year.

A 1996 Navy Recruiting Command study admits "In our analysis, family incomes proved to be the most important economic variable ... Enlistment rates are much higher when income is lowest and college enrollment rates are low." And, unsurprisingly, as Michael Moore points out in his film Fahrenheit 9/11, recruiters target 17 or 18 year-olds desperate to escape the lower classes. "Economic conscription is easier when the economy gets bad. Recruiters often amplify the bad economic conditions and present themselves as the only strategy," explained counter recruiter and former publisher of AWOL magazine Mario Hardy.

The No Child Left Behind Act, enacted in 2001, and the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year of 2002 have made economic conscription much easier. They require every high school receiving federal education funds to hand over the names, addresses and phone numbers of every junior and senior to local military recruitment officers.

Since these public schools targeted are predominantly located in poor communities, the African-American and Hispanic communities find themselves heavily preyed upon. Billboards for the Armed Services proliferate noticeably in the poorest neighborhoods. Military marketing firms utilize ethnic marketing to devise what they call "specialized campaigns." For instance, the Navy created a Web site it calls "El Navy," which is designed to better communicate with the Hispanic market, and the Army has specifically tailored radio advertisements to reach the African American market. The military also advertise heavily in hip-hop magazines such as The Source.

Brentwood high school, one of the largest and poorest working-class schools on Long Island, New York, has a federally subsidized Reserve Officers Training Corps program. Every year 15 to 30 of its students join the military after graduating. This year alone, three of Brentwood's graduates have been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

But poverty often breeds higher crime rates and more acute medical problems and recruiters find themselves in a catch 22 situation. "Because of drug use, criminal offense, weight and other health problems, only about 3 of every 10 potential recruits are even technically eligible to join the Army on today's standards, but recruiters are pressured to recruit two or three "bodies" a month. Therefore they have to lie," said an Army recruiter on active duty wishing to remain anonymous. According to military lawyers and recruiters, the "lies" involve serious deception. "The system is structured using lies to get people in," explained director of the Washington-based Center of Conscience and War, J. E. McNeil.

"Recruiters don't just lie about the money for college, their Military Occupational Specialty or tell them they won't go to combat. They tell the recruits to lie about their medical and drug histories and their criminal records. There's widespread deception and dishonesty," said military lawyer Luke Hiken. "Pretty much everybody I knew in the Marines had to lie about their medical history to get in," said former assistant recruiter Chris White. "One guy had previously attempted suicide; he went crazy, cut his neck, and had a big scar from it. I told him to say he fell off a truck into a barb-wired fence; he got in. Some guys would tell me they did coke or heroin; I'd tell them 'it was weed,'" said the Army recruiter.

In the Vietnam era, Judges often offered enlistment as an alternative to prosecution and jail time. But after Vietnam, Congress passed legislation to prevent this practice. But former recruiters and military lawyers affirm that it is still taking place in a more covert form, with judges often working in concert with recruiters to drop charges. "The district attorney would call me twice a month and give me the names and phone numbers of people he thought could benefit from being in the army. Four out of five would usually join," explained the Army recruiter.

"Out of 75 contracts, maybe five were qualified. I got approximately 40 unsupervised probations dropped," said former Marine Staff Sergeant Jimmy Massey. From 1999 to 2001, Massey worked in what recruiters refer to as a "low impact area," where crime rates are comparatively low, which means he could only have misdemeanor charges dropped. He added, "I couldn't do anything for felonies. But, obviously, that depends on the district. Recruiters from the Bronx were always bragging about having felonies dropped."

Carl Nyberg, a former Navy recruiter and investigator, says "recruits are encouraged by recruiters to lie yet they are the only ones to suffer the consequences of these lies in the event of an investigation." Between 1993 and 1995, 14 cases were brought against the Navy for criminal concealment in recruiting in Chicago. But in what seems to be the norm for such charges, the majority of allegations were declared "unsubstantiated" by the Navy Recruiting Command, evincing a culture of impunity. While the recruiters were simply recommended for further training or given a non-punitive letter of caution, the recruits themselves were dishonorably discharged. Nyberg adds, "Those investigations were a complete misrepresentation. Recruiters are the ones that are untrustworthy, 90% of deceit is solicited by recruiters."

When pressed for a comment, Staff Sergeant Ayalin at Quantico's Public Affairs Office said he'd "never heard of any recruiter lying" and that recruiters were "trained to provide the right information," but finally admitted, "I've heard of some things. I can't give you any specific example. I'd have to look for that type of misconduct."

The story of Tim Queen, a mentally and physically handicapped man, exemplifies this type of misconduct. Ordered by his g

NEWS

Police arrest 4 sit-in protesters

Also by James Davison:

Related Stories:

Share This:

by James Davison

Friday, November 19, 2004

Feedback

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 7:32am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 8:05am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 8:09am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 8:26am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:03am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:10am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:17am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:29am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:33am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:40am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:55am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 11:10am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 11:12am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 11:13am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 11:26am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 11:29am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 11:53am):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 12:17pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 12:34pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 12:37pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 12:48pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 12:54pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 12:55pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 12:57pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 1:13pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 1:25pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 1:38pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 1:55pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 2:12pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 3:39pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 3:57pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 3:57pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 3:58pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 4:25pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 4:30pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 4:33pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 4:48pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 4:53pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 5:13pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 5:24pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 5:27pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 7:18pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 9:28pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 9:40pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:35pm):

Anonymous (November 19, 2004 @ 10:44pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 1:17am):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 12:11pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 1:14pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 1:14pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 1:17pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 3:07pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 3:18pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 3:50pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 4:01pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 4:34pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:09pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:13pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:16pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:17pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:20pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:33pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:38pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:43pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 6:55pm):

A Poor Kid (November 20, 2004 @ 7:02pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 7:12pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 8:26pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 8:43pm):

Anonymous (November 20, 2004 @ 8:48pm):

2003 uw grad (November 20, 2004 @ 8:52pm):